I have searched on the internet but have not found a satisfactory answer. Can anyone tell me when station underpasses were first used? I am building a new layout with a small three platform terminus station without a canopy. the era will be around 1900. I favour the idea of underpasses between the platforms instead of overhead footbridges but I want it to look historically correct. I would be grateful if anyone could help me.
Quote from: Artisan on September 18, 2019, 11:27:55 AM
I have searched on the internet but have not found a satisfactory answer. Can anyone tell me when station underpasses were first used? I am building a new layout with a small three platform terminus station without a canopy. the era will be around 1900. I favour the idea of underpasses between the platforms instead of overhead footbridges but I want it to look historically correct. I would be grateful if anyone could help me.
Reading had one from 1898 onwards, when they stopped using a single platform for all trains.
Thank you for that. Underpasses it is then! :thumbsup:
What an interesting question, and one I've never even thought about!
Thanks for kicking off this thread! :thumbsup:
It should lead to a wealth of information!
rugby wcml
warrington bank quay
spring to mind !!!!
Rugby (1885) is quite late opening compared to some with underpasses:
1839 - Littleborough
1840 - Hebden Bridge
1841 - Todmorden
1860 - Great Malvern
1860 - Worcester Foregate Street
Steven B.
:hmmm: If a Terminus, why the need for either footbridge or underpass? :confused2:
Quote from: RailGooner on September 18, 2019, 01:02:03 PM
:hmmm: If a Terminus, why the need for either footbridge or underpass? :confused2:
Indeed, I was wondering that as well, normally there wouldn't be much need to change platform at a terminus.
Quote from: Steven B on September 18, 2019, 12:35:38 PM
1860 - Worcester Foregate Street
Dunno if that counts as having an underpass, as in a pedestrian tunnel between platforms, as the station is on a viaduct.
Wimborne 1847
Sounds like quite from the beginning certain stations wer built with one of the two solutions.
Are there documents that show the reasoning why the respective solution was used?
Quote from: railsquid on September 18, 2019, 01:45:38 PM
Quote from: RailGooner on September 18, 2019, 01:02:03 PM
:hmmm: If a Terminus, why the need for either footbridge or underpass? :confused2:
Indeed, I was wondering that as well, normally there wouldn't be much need to change platform at a terminus.
...
And where there is a need, one could just walk toward the station building where one can access any platform - as I've done when changing trains/platforms at Marylebone, Victoria, and Paddington.
Didcot parkway would that count. Remember once descending the steep stairs into somewhat uninviting gloom
Quote from: RailGooner on September 18, 2019, 01:02:03 PM
:hmmm: If a Terminus, why the need for either footbridge or underpass? :confused2:
But they exist at London Marylebone, London Kings Cross, London Paddington etc. Some locations the bridge accessed platforms and buildings.
Quote from: woodbury22uk on September 18, 2019, 02:41:37 PM
Quote from: RailGooner on September 18, 2019, 01:02:03 PM
:hmmm: If a Terminus, why the need for either footbridge or underpass? :confused2:
But they exist at London Marylebone, London Kings Cross, London Paddington etc. Some locations the bridge accessed platforms and buildings.
I don't deny they exist Mike. I just don't see
why they exist. To me, they appear to be a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Perhaps the problem has remained solved for such a long time, that the problem has been forgotten.
Fair play to Artisan for seeking to make his station as prototypically correct as possible. But I can't contemplate the question 'when?' without also contemplating the question 'why?'.
I guess one reason would be transfer between long distance and suburban services, withoutfighting the crowds on the concourse. Arrive at Paddington non-stop from Reading or Swindon, and take the local back to Hayes.
Manningtree and Ardleigh (between Colchester and Ipswich) both had underpasses from opening in 1846.
Manningtree was mainly built on an embankment, so possibly the underpass was a form of 'cut and cover'. Ardleigh, though is on the level.
Liverpool St also had a bridge across the concourse until rebuilding; I think it could have been to allow access to the West Side suburban from the East side road level access (Bishopsgate?), without impeding the end of platform concourse (which wasn't helped by platforms 8+9 for the main line services being much longer than the suburban platforms on each side of them).
martyn
Ilkley (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44940880_1992701187484819_6607245270029697024_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQkbi53J8CahaH7yC8KbKG6N7uMQHJOw10kwj2xrVluuwq3baiKzQ44Wg8YpAsKWDFQ&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=e1f48038981f8ff7df460833c7bc90d1&oe=5E094EF8) used to have an underpass between the bay/terminus platforms and the through platform.
Along with the likes of Hebden Bridge & Todmorden (both through stations) the reasoning behind the underpass is because of the surounding geography - the station is built across a slope with access to one side being lower than the other.
Where land was flatter bridges were more common as they were less expensive to build
Quote from: RailGooner on September 18, 2019, 02:01:01 PM
Quote from: railsquid on September 18, 2019, 01:45:38 PM
Quote from: RailGooner on September 18, 2019, 01:02:03 PM
:hmmm: If a Terminus, why the need for either footbridge or underpass? :confused2:
Indeed, I was wondering that as well, normally there wouldn't be much need to change platform at a terminus.
...
And where there is a need, one could just walk toward the station building where one can access any platform - as I've done when changing trains/platforms at Marylebone, Victoria, and Paddington.
That assumes there is a concours across the end of all the platforms whereas there may be no room to model that. The station building may be at one side with underpass access to the platforms :hmmm:
Gainsborough Central (originally a terminus) built in 1849 had an underpass to get to the station from the road and also had a footbridge to get to the other platform
Paddington and Manchester Piccadilly are two examples that are mostly termini but have a couple of through platforms alongside the "far" end of the terminating platforms, so the footbridges are mainly a shortcut so people don't have to walk all the way to the buffer stops and then back on a different platform (and the platform on the far side of the through tracks would need a bridge or underpass anyway). I can't think of any that have a subway for the same purpose but I don't see any reason it couldn't have happened.
The Eurostar platforms at St Pancras are a terminus with an underpass, or strictly speaking all the station facilities are at ground level underneath the tracks because there wasn't enough room at the elevated platform level. All three sets of elevated platforms also have staff/servicing access to facilities underneath.
At Gare du Nord you exit the Eurostar normally past the buffer stops but entry to the platforms is from an elevated "lounge". Kings Cross is now a similar configuration although you can enter by either route. Previously it had a footbridge which I think was to provide a route between main and suburban platforms but as all trains departed in the same direction there wasn't much need to use it.
Haywards Heath and Hassocks on the Brighton line.
We seem to have some people just preferring stations which have an underpass, which isn't the question! There are hundreds of examples, from small 2 platform stations to massive termini.
I agree with Rail Gooner, I'd you're seeking prototype fidelity then I'd consider not just the timeline, but why would there be an underpass, given their relative complexity? If it's got 10+ platforms I can understand, but if it's a modest 3 platform BLT then I'd say it's entirely superfluous.
I believe there were plenty of small stations in Scotland with an island platform where the only access to the platform was via an underpass.
Probably the same for Lichfield City or Hellifield ?