As per the title, I'm looking for a GWR 4500 class loco (probably three) if I can find them, does anyone or has anyone made these in N gauge?
If not what are my alternatives? if any.
Thanks in advance.
Tim
Quote from: TimR on December 19, 2018, 01:54:42 PM
As per the title, I'm looking for a GWR 4500 class loco (probably three) if I can find them, does anyone or has anyone made these in N gauge?
If not what are my alternatives? if any.
Thanks in advance.
Tim
Hi Tim. Dapol produced these a while back(both sloping and straight tank varieities - both worked the Princetown branch). However, I think they are now sold out so it's down to buying second hand.
I have 3 of them - nice little locomotives.
Martin
Quote from: port perran on December 19, 2018, 02:46:37 PM
Quote from: TimR on December 19, 2018, 01:54:42 PM
As per the title, I'm looking for a GWR 4500 class loco (probably three) if I can find them, does anyone or has anyone made these in N gauge?
If not what are my alternatives? if any.
Thanks in advance.
Tim
Tim
Hi Tim. Dapol produced these a while back(both sloping and straight tank varieities - both worked the Princetown branch). However, I think they are now sold out so it's down to buying second hand.
I have 3 of them - nice little locomotives.
Martin
Ahh thanks for that Martin, 2nd hand is fine and as you can see my research has started :) it really is surprising what you can find when you actually start looking.
I suppose ebay should be my first port of call along with the outlets that keep used stock.
Thanks again.
Here's a Dapol slope tank (ND-060D):
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4908/44344963640_c8c1a69548_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ayBwJC)
Very nice little runner. I did worry it looked a bit overscale for the coaches (a Dapol "B set") but here's one running with a "D set" in real life and the cab roof does seem higher than the coaches: https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbh2628.htm (https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbh2628.htm)
And here's a straight tank example.
Again, a lovely little runner.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/230-191218153446.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=72508)
Quote from: railsquid on December 19, 2018, 03:18:44 PM
Here's a Dapol slope tank (ND-060D):
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4908/44344963640_c8c1a69548_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ayBwJC)
Very nice little runner. I did worry it looked a bit overscale for the coaches (a Dapol "B set") but here's one running with a "D set" in real life and the cab roof does seem higher than the coaches: https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbh2628.htm (https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbh2628.htm)
Hi railsquid, that looks really nice, thank you for sharing, great looking colour scheme.
Be careful buying them second hand, they were a prime example of problem Dapol locos. So much so they were redesigned resulting in some improvement but not a lot.
Buy from a second hand stand at a show or shop where you can see it tested. There is a high probability an eBay one will be a bad one.
the main problem was wheel on axle slip and loosing quartering causing the valve gear to be trashed.
Quote from: port perran on December 19, 2018, 03:34:55 PM
And here's a straight tank example.
Again, a lovely little runner.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/230-191218153446.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=72508)
Thank you as well Martin, looks just as good in black, I have found a "mint" example on ebay so I expect to be spending some money very shortly ;)
Quote from: Snowwolflair on December 19, 2018, 04:19:34 PM
Be careful buying them second hand, they were a prime example of problem Dapol locos. So much so they were redesigned resulting in some improvement but not a lot.
Buy from a second hand stand at a show or shop where you can see it tested. There is a high probability an eBay one will be a bad one.
the main problem was wheel on axle slip and loosing quartering causing the valve gear to be trashed.
Thanks for the heads up snowwolflair, I do have my eye on one at the moment that is described as mint, is there a fix for that particular problem?
Quote from: Snowwolflair on December 19, 2018, 04:19:34 PM
Be careful buying them second hand, they were a prime example of problem Dapol locos. So much so they were redesigned resulting in some improvement but not a lot.
Buy from a second hand stand at a show or shop where you can see it tested. There is a high probability an eBay one will be a bad one.
the main problem was wheel on axle slip and loosing quartering causing the valve gear to be trashed.
Hmm, I must have got lucky, based on my 2nd-hand sample of 1 bought via mail order, it's perfectly fine for a small N gauge kettle and purrs round my layout with nary a problem. Mind you I must have a lucky touch, my Dapol 14xx is also one of the "good" ones.
At least with EBay if it is not as described you can get your money back.
Hattons.co.uk also has a large stock of secondhand. The best ones seem to go very quickly.
KJB Models who advertise on here have always sold good locos at good prices, so look them up too.
HTH
Bob
Quote from: Snowwolflair on December 19, 2018, 04:19:34 PM
Be careful buying them second hand, they were a prime example of problem Dapol locos. So much so they were redesigned resulting in some improvement but not a lot.
Buy from a second hand stand at a show or shop where you can see it tested. There is a high probability an eBay one will be a bad one.
the main problem was wheel on axle slip and loosing quartering causing the valve gear to be trashed.
[/quote
Please provide more detail re: "they were redesigned". I wasn't aware of this.
By the way, these model 45xx locos don't have any "valve gear", they have coupling rods and connecting rods.
Quote from: TimR on December 19, 2018, 04:25:04 PM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on December 19, 2018, 04:19:34 PM
Be careful buying them second hand, they were a prime example of problem Dapol locos. So much so they were redesigned resulting in some improvement but not a lot.
Buy from a second hand stand at a show or shop where you can see it tested. There is a high probability an eBay one will be a bad one.
the main problem was wheel on axle slip and loosing quartering causing the valve gear to be trashed.
Thanks for the heads up snowwolflair, I do have my eye on one at the moment that is described as mint, is there a fix for that particular problem?
Good luck with your bid.
Quote from: TimR on December 19, 2018, 04:25:04 PM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on December 19, 2018, 04:19:34 PM
Be careful buying them second hand, they were a prime example of problem Dapol locos. So much so they were redesigned resulting in some improvement but not a lot.
Buy from a second hand stand at a show or shop where you can see it tested. There is a high probability an eBay one will be a bad one.
the main problem was wheel on axle slip and loosing quartering causing the valve gear to be trashed.
Thanks for the heads up snowwolflair, I do have my eye on one at the moment that is described as mint, is there a fix for that particular problem?
That's why they redesigned the chassis. Be very sparing with any use of oil, use a dry lubricant like Teflon that wont seep into the axles.
I got one of the first models and it has been fine so far. I tested two and picked the best when I bought it from Osbourns years ago. As with all models I think it's a case of luck and careful handling.
I also have one of the early ones (ND-013) and it's a quiet and smooth runner. However, there's very little slow speed control and it tends to take off like a jack rabbit.
Quote from: Snowwolflair on December 19, 2018, 04:19:34 PM
Be careful buying them second hand, they were a prime example of problem Dapol locos. So much so they were redesigned resulting in some improvement but not a lot.
:
:
the main problem was wheel on axle slip and loosing quartering
Quote from: ODRAILS on December 19, 2018, 04:55:06 PM
Please provide more detail re: "they were redesigned". I wasn't aware of this.
Is there any way to identify which batches are concerned, please?
I have a 2S-014-002 which was new and runs fine (although she can't pull much), but I'd be interested to know if it's possible to be selective when seeing earlier used models for sale.
I have two early examples, have to admit I'm not overly impressed with them. They look nice but are too light and have poor slow speed control.
One has a replacement motor and was effectively a freebie with a purchase of some Collett coaches as it had died out on the line some time over the 4 days of the Stuttgart show the year Dapol came out with a stand (2006?)
Quote from: Bob G on December 19, 2018, 04:33:03 PM
At least with EBay if it is not as described you can get your money back.
Hattons.co.uk also has a large stock of secondhand. The best ones seem to go very quickly.
KJB Models who advertise on here have always sold good locos at good prices, so look them up too.
HTH
Bob
Thanks Bob, I'll have a look at both of those outlets as well.
I don't believe they were redesigned. This is an urban myth not denied by Dapol when they re-ran their "Old tank favourites" a while back.
They reissued the 45xx, Ivatt and M7, but as far as I am concerned they didn't do anything to the drive units to improve matters.
Bob
Quote from: Bob G on December 19, 2018, 07:03:17 PM
I don't believe they were redesigned. This is an urban myth not denied by Dapol when they re-ran their "Old tank favourites" a while back.
They reissued the 45xx, Ivatt and M7, but as far as I am concerned they didn't do anything to the drive units to improve matters.
Bob
I hand made two chassis a 2-8-2 and a 2-8-0 form 45xx parts and believe me there was a complete redesign as version 1 bits did not fit with version 2 bits so no Urban myth.
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=33206.msg415037#msg415037 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=33206.msg415037#msg415037)
Quote from: Snowwolflair on December 19, 2018, 07:18:43 PM
Quote from: Bob G on December 19, 2018, 07:03:17 PM
I don't believe they were redesigned. This is an urban myth not denied by Dapol when they re-ran their "Old tank favourites" a while back.
They reissued the 45xx, Ivatt and M7, but as far as I am concerned they didn't do anything to the drive units to improve matters.
Bob
I hand made two chassis a 2-8-2 and a 2-8-0 form 45xx parts and believe me there was a complete redesign as version 1 bits did not fit with version 2 bits so no Urban myth.
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=33206.msg415037#msg415037 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=33206.msg415037#msg415037)
Gosh. So now I need to know which ones are the gooduns. Do you know? e.g. the ones with ND-numbers are all original, the 2S-numbers are new, perhaps?
Bob (super-surprised emoticon) :o
Quote from: Bob G on December 20, 2018, 08:28:06 AM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on December 19, 2018, 07:18:43 PM
Quote from: Bob G on December 19, 2018, 07:03:17 PM
I don't believe they were redesigned. This is an urban myth not denied by Dapol when they re-ran their "Old tank favourites" a while back.
They reissued the 45xx, Ivatt and M7, but as far as I am concerned they didn't do anything to the drive units to improve matters.
Bob
I hand made two chassis a 2-8-2 and a 2-8-0 form 45xx parts and believe me there was a complete redesign as version 1 bits did not fit with version 2 bits so no Urban myth.
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=33206.msg415037#msg415037 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=33206.msg415037#msg415037)
Gosh. So now I need to know which ones are the gooduns. Do you know? e.g. the ones with ND-numbers are all original, the 2S-numbers are new, perhaps?
Bob (super-surprised emoticon) :o
Ask Fiona at DCC Supplies they handle all Dapol spares and should know which is which.
The 2S- numbers are the newest. Conversion to DCC with appropriate motor settings is an effective way of taming the scalded cat syndrome.
I don't think I've seen anything but ND- numbers advertised on eBay, whether new, pre-owned, used or spares/repairs. These include the batches with the incorrect BR lining.
Has anyone else noticed 2S- ones anywhere?
There were at least four versions released with 2S- prefixes, namely 2S-014-001 though -004
Quote from: Snowwolflair on December 19, 2018, 07:18:43 PM
I hand made two chassis a 2-8-2 and a 2-8-0 form 45xx parts and believe me there was a complete redesign as version 1 bits did not fit with version 2 bits so no Urban myth.
Did you have any idea if there was a difference in the motors regards fitting, please?
I was considering the possibility of buying an ND- pre-owned one on the assumption that if it needed a new motor DCC could supply it, but as they only have one type listed, I need to know if my idea is feasible or not. Thanks.
Quote from: Bob G on December 20, 2018, 08:28:06 AM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on December 19, 2018, 07:18:43 PM
Quote from: Bob G on December 19, 2018, 07:03:17 PM
I don't believe they were redesigned. This is an urban myth not denied by Dapol when they re-ran their "Old tank favourites" a while back.
They reissued the 45xx, Ivatt and M7, but as far as I am concerned they didn't do anything to the drive units to improve matters.
Bob
I hand made two chassis a 2-8-2 and a 2-8-0 form 45xx parts and believe me there was a complete redesign as version 1 bits did not fit with version 2 bits so no Urban myth.
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=33206.msg415037#msg415037 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=33206.msg415037#msg415037)
Gosh. So now I need to know which ones are the gooduns. Do you know? e.g. the ones with ND-numbers are all original, the 2S-numbers are new, perhaps?
Bob (super-surprised emoticon) :o
I have contacted DCC Supplies who say they don't have any relevant information and did not know where it would be available. :'(
However, they were able to confirm that the 45xx motor they sell is the latest one. They would not be able to supply an earlier version if it existed.
Quote from: ten0G on January 11, 2019, 12:06:58 PM
I have contacted DCC Supplies who say they don't have any relevant information and did not know where it would be available. :'(
However, they were able to confirm that the 45xx motor they sell is the latest one. They would not be able to supply an earlier version if it existed.
The motor used in all the 45xx's (of whatever batch) is the same as far as my experience shows - the one on DCC Supplies website will fit any 45xx. The wheels on the 45xxs were retooled, and maybe aspects of the chassis block itself; but I've successfully fitted new motors to the original batch models before (failures being replaced) and they are definitely the same.
However, maybe you could post a photo of your particular loco, minus the bodyshell, to see exactly what is there, and confirm the above?
HTH,
Alan