Spoked vs 3-holed wagon wheels

[railsquid]

Given any particular 4-wheeled freight wagon (or brake van), is there any way of telling whether it should have spoked or 3-hole disc wheels (the two types sold by Farish)? I have acquired an eclectic mix of Peco wagons with plastic wheels and was wondering what to replace them with.

[martyn]

As a very rough guide;

Older wagons tended to be spoked, but not always.

Then, fitted wagons three hole, unfitted spoked.

As ever, photos help, but it wasn't unknown for wagons to change the type of wheels during their lifespan, nor for the same wagon to have one axle three hole disc, one axle spoked.

I think, but I can't find a relevant article, that the three hole disc were more suited to dissipating heat generated when the vehicle brakes were used in a fitted or partially fitted train. The disc wheels may also have stood up better to stresses when running at higher speeds in such trains.

HTH


Martyn

[Les1952]

Like loco tenders wagons would have their wheelsets removed as necessary at major repair for tyre turning, and would not usually get the same sets back.  As a wagon wheelset is heavy the first two axles of wheels would be used even if they were different types- provided they were (as the vast majority were) the same sized wheels.

There was no kudos in moving wheelsets around to get matching sets, more likely a telling-off from the foreman for wasting time.

Doesn't Blue Peter have a mixture of disc wheels and spoked on its tender - or was this one thing corrected at overhaul when it was preserved?

Les

[PennineWagons]

Given any particular 4-wheeled freight wagon (or brake van), is there any way of telling whether it should have spoked or 3-hole disc wheels (the two types sold by Farish)? I have acquired an eclectic mix of Peco wagons with plastic wheels and was wondering what to replace them with.

I'm not sure any of the Farish wheelsets would be ideal for fitting to Peco wagons, as their axles are very slightly longer than the Peco ones. They will just about fit but it's a bit of a squeeze, and then they won't turn at all freely. You could maybe try the Parkside Dundas wheelsets, as they're supposedly a direct replacement for Peco. (Actually I think the PD range is owned by Peco now as well.)
PW

[railsquid]

Given any particular 4-wheeled freight wagon (or brake van), is there any way of telling whether it should have spoked or 3-hole disc wheels (the two types sold by Farish)? I have acquired an eclectic mix of Peco wagons with plastic wheels and was wondering what to replace them with.

I'm not sure any of the Farish wheelsets would be ideal for fitting to Peco wagons, as their axles are very slightly longer than the Peco ones. They will just about fit but it's a bit of a squeeze, and then they won't turn at all freely.

Nothing which can't be solved with an 0.6mm pin vise bit and a few twists though.

You could maybe try the Parkside Dundas wheelsets, as they're supposedly a direct replacement for Peco. (Actually I think the PD range is owned by Peco now as well.)
PW

Haven't heard of those before, will have to investigate. The Farish wheels were easy to get hold of for me (though currently out of stock) which is why I went with them.

[martyn]

I initially replaced all my Peco wheels with Parkside Dundas, but I now use Farish; a quick gentle squeeze of the axle ends over the axle boxes gives sufficient play for the new wheelsets to spin freely. The Farish version has a longer tapered section, and, to my mind, allows the wheels to spin freer than the Parkside version.

I have also had problems with Parkside wheelsets in certain temperature conditions; the steel tyre comes off the plastic centre and is then out of gauge and off centre. Easily fixed with a back to back gauge and superglue, but so far, I haven't had the same problem with Farish wheelsets.

Unfortunately, at time of writing, they seem to be out of stock or on back order with most of the major model shops-I'm looking for some for myself!

HTH

martyn

[Bealman]

So Squiddy has hit jackpot with the Farish wheels then?

[martyn]

If he can get them 

Martyn

[railsquid]

I certainly have no cause for complaint, I've used both wagon and coach sets to rewheel a wide variety of stock without any problems, including GDR-era Piko and some of the less worse Lima stuff.

If he can get them 

I read somewhere on this forum that a new batch is due later this year (though I won't hold my breath ).

[martyn]

I know this is a rather old thread, but whilst looking up something else, I found this in 'LNER Wagons' by Taplow;

'......spoked wheels were supplied on early batches of wagons, but from 1934 three hole disc became the rule; unless reprofiled second hand spoked wheels were used'.

It also confirms that one axle of each type could be found on the same vehicle after overhaul.

martyn

[martyn]

And just to show that you can't be too dogmatic about this;

I've found a photo of an LNER design banana van, built by BR, brand new at Faverdale works, in 1954.

Not only does it have spoked wheels, but split spokes to boot...........

Presumably this was one which had the 'reprofiled second hand' wheels referred to above.

Martyn

[icairns]

Not relevant to the original spoked versus 3-hole disc wheel question but Peco have announced (Railway Modeller September 2019) that they are going to introduce metal-tyred wheels for their N gauge and OO9 rolling stock.

The announcement shows a photo and to paraphrase the wording:  "...the new 9mm gauge wheels will have metal rims with tough glass-filled plastic centres and axles moulded in situ.  The metal rims on the production wheels will be blackened.  These will be introduced on some models in the N and OO9 rolling stock ranges first, with OO versions for Parkside and Ratio rolling stock kits to follow in due course." 

From the look of the photos, the sample wheels appear to be solid disc type and have the typical Peco axle pin-point shape just like their regular plastic wagon disc wheels (NR-100).  Therefore, the new metal tyred wheels should be a drop-in replacement for the current plastic ones without having to perform any modifications to the wagon axle boxes in order to allow the replacement wheels to roll smoothly.

Although it does not say so in the announcement, I am assuming (hoping) that these wheels would be made available as a separate item for modelers that would like to retrofit their Peco wagons. 

There was no mention if Peco intend in the future to make metal-tyred spoked wheels like the current plastic ones (NR101). 

Ian Cairns
Los Angeles

[PLD]

The announcement shows a photo and to paraphrase the wording:  "...the new 9mm gauge wheels will have metal rims with tough glass-filled plastic centres and axles moulded in situ.  The metal rims on the production wheels will be blackened.  These will be introduced on some models in the N and OO9 rolling stock ranges first, with OO versions for Parkside and Ratio rolling stock kits to follow in due course." 

Not sure on balance whether this is a good or a bad move... 

Certainly the end of the moulded plastic wheelsets featured to date in the Peco wagons is a a good thing; but the "plastic centres and axles moulded in situ" concerns me if these also replace the wheelsets in Parkside wagon kits (and also available separately) which have a separate steel axle and are adjustable - essential for those favouring finer track standards such as Finetrax where the moulded Peco wheelsets tend to be tight on the back-to-back...
For years, the Parkside-Dundas wheels have been my favoured replacement for Peco. Hopefully the now independent Dundas part of the company will continue to supply them...

[PaulCheffus]

Certainly the end of the moulded plastic wheelsets featured to date in the Peco wagons is a a good thing; but the "plastic centres and axles moulded in situ" concerns me if these also replace the wheelsets in Parkside wagon kits (and also available separately) which have a separate steel axle and are adjustable - essential for those favouring finer track standards such as Finetrax where the moulded Peco wheelsets tend to be tight on the back-to-back...

Hi

That will certainly put an end to me using them in the 2mm SA chassis kits by shortening the axles to 12.25mm.

Cheers

Paul

[martyn]

I've used Parkwood wheels as replacements for Peco for over twenty years in any wagons or kit chassis made by Peco, but more recently, I've changed to Farish; I have to say that I think the Farish ones 'roll' better than the Parkwood ones, in my experience.

Martyn