Hattons have stand here at Ally Pally, but before you all get excited there's no stock it's just a dcc fitting service plus they're taking pre-orders for a wagon they're commissioning.
They are going to produce the ICI hoppers in OO. But when I approached them all excited and said "Oh great, are you going to produce them in N at some time??" The answer I got was a categoric "NO, there's no plans to do anything in N!!"
Needless to say I was shocked and just stood there like a lemon, open mouthed at the persons arrogance that I dared even mention N gauge, myself and my friend said, loudly enough to be heard,"Well that's the last time we buy anything from you lot" and walked off, the person who spoke to us, just shrugged his shoulders and went back to doing what Hattons do best, taking money!!!!
I must admit I was gobsmacked, not necessarily at the response, but the way it was delivered, almost as if Hattons have disdain for anything other than OO, because it's they're main revenue stream.
Sorry, just needed to get that off my chest, But I won't be buying from Hattons again.
Regards
Neal.
Sounds very arrogant and dismissive, I wonder if that is definite Hattons policy communicated there by someone in authority.
If it is it would appear very short sighted albeit on reflection no different to Kernow or others currently do.
In fact the only N commissions I can think of are those the NGS has undertaken now I think about it.
Thank goodness for Ben and Mike's RevolutioN crowd sourcing venture!
Roy
I can think of a few Roy
Class 86, mk3 coaches and 156 by C&M models
Class 60 and 121 by Kernow
Class 60 by Buffers
Class 37 by TMC
The only thing is that these are all reliveries of propriety items and as far as I know there has never been a new tooling aimed at N gauge. Seems we should be used to being the poor relations now! :censored:
:NGaugersRule:
Cheers
Mark
Sorry, yes I was meaning newly tooled models rather than exclusive liveries run from existing tooling.
Roy
What about the China clay wagons from Kernow?
Paddy
Quote from: Paddy on March 28, 2015, 03:07:51 PM
What about the China clay wagons from Kernow?
Paddy
Hi Paddy
Yes, you are right, the Kernow Clay Hoods, I had completely forgotten about them...
Fair play to Kernow then.
Roy
Quote from: Calnefoxile on March 28, 2015, 02:00:09 PM
Hattons have stand here at Ally Pally, but before you all get excited there's no stock it's just a dcc fitting service plus they're taking pre-orders for a wagon they're commissioning.
They are going to produce the ICI hoppers in OO. But when I approached them all excited and said "Oh great, are you going to produce them in N at some time??" The answer I got was a categoric "NO, there's no plans to do anything in N!!"
Needless to say I was shocked and just stood there like a lemon, open mouthed at the persons arrogance that I dared even mention N gauge, myself and my friend said, loudly enough to be heard,"Well that's the last time we buy anything from you lot" and walked off, the person who spoke to us, just shrugged his shoulders and went back to doing what Hattons do best, taking money!!!!
I must admit I was gobsmacked, not necessarily at the response, but the way it was delivered, almost as if Hattons have disdain for anything other than OO, because it's they're main revenue stream.
Sorry, just needed to get that off my chest, But I won't be buying from Hattons again.
Regards
Neal.
Maybe you just happened to meet a couple of hacked off salesmen who would rather be spending their weekend somewhere else.. My personal experience of all my contacts with Hattons staff has been good. :)
My experience of Hattons has been very good...not sure stamping of feet always helps even if at the time it makes us all feel better !
Neal is only reporting the response and attitude he received in a face to face situation in a public arena so lets not jump on the the defend Hattons at all cost band wagon. If they were rude they were rude, that is not excusable and if it showed contempt for our scale it is even worse. It may not be company policy but it has been portrayed as such.
If you are looking for a different model shop to buy from I have just ordered a fair bit from Model Railways Direct (http://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk (http://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk)). Having checked the prices between Hattons and MRD, MRD were actually cheaper overall. Better still the order was placed Friday pm and I have had a email to say it will be delivered on Monday.
Quote from: Roy L S on March 28, 2015, 02:36:24 PM
Sorry, yes I was meaning newly tooled models rather than exclusive liveries run from existing tooling.
Roy
It would be nice to see the N Gauge Farish Peaks commissioned as marker light and split head code variations, Model Zone got Bachmann to retool them in 00 Gauge to marker light variations, so it can be done if a retailer thinks they can shift 514 models
Mark
Hello all,
The attitude of Hattons's stand staff as reported is poor, but at the same time not entirely unexpected.
N Gauge does not seem to do well in the repaint commissions market - Kernow commissioned the green IKB Class 60 and it struggled to sell (it did not help that the real thing blew up within days of the model coming out!) while C&M's excellent blue Class 86s also took a lot longer to shift than a comparable OO model - so investing in new tooling is an even bigger gamble.
I am not sure why this is, but I suspect there may be two key factors:
1) The market is smaller
2) It tends to be more "adult" (most kids or "casual" hobbyists will go for Hornby size) and in this market people are more set on what they want, and more likely to only buy items they specifically need. So the skill, IMO, comes in selecting your prototype.
With the NGS I have been careful to select items (with the Committee) that have a very long service life (ie Qm brake - 1936-present) or offer something a little different (eg Snowplough), or are a complete train in themselves (Inspection Saloon) or just complement other items (Collet BG goes with parcels trains, standard passenger trains and even with milk tanks.)
The NGS has discussed the ICI hoppers before funnily enough for a kit, but the bogies are one-offs and that dissuaded us a little!
However, if you were interested in sponsoring such a project for Revolution then my recommendation would be to wait until Oxford have the OO CAD designs (probably in around 6 months) then, assuming Hattons still have no interest in N, ask Oxford what their minimum order would be, and how much each wagon would cost, and then see if it sounds viable.
cheers
Ben A.
Quote from: Ben A on March 28, 2015, 06:10:28 PM
Hello all,
The attitude of Hattons's stand staff as reported is poor, but at the same time not entirely unexpected.
N Gauge does not seem to do well in the repaint commissions market - Kernow commissioned the green IKB Class 60 and it struggled to sell (it did not help that the real thing blew up within days of the model coming out!) while C&M's excellent blue Class 86s also took a lot longer to shift than a comparable OO model - so investing in new tooling is an even bigger gamble.
I am not sure why this is, but I suspect there may be two key factors:
1) The market is smaller
2) It tends to be more "adult" (most kids or "casual" hobbyists will go for Hornby size) and in this market people are more set on what they want, and more likely to only buy items they specifically need. So the skill, IMO, comes in selecting your prototype.
With the NGS I have been careful to select items (with the Committee) that have a very long service life (ie Qm brake - 1936-present) or offer something a little different (eg Snowplough), or are a complete train in themselves (Inspection Saloon) or just complement other items (Collet BG goes with parcels trains, standard passenger trains and even with milk tanks.)
The NGS has discussed the ICI hoppers before funnily enough for a kit, but the bogies are one-offs and that dissuaded us a little!
However, if you were interested in sponsoring such a project for Revolution then my recommendation would be to wait until Oxford have the OO CAD designs (probably in around 6 months) then, assuming Hattons still have no interest in N, ask Oxford what their minimum order would be, and how much each wagon would cost, and then see if it sounds viable.
cheers
Ben A.
It would be nice to see the old UKF Fertiliser wagons in N scale, I was looking at the Lima OO Gauge model the other day and was thinking a rake of those in N would look great.
Mark
Hi Gang,
I tend to agree with Neal (for once!) that recently Hattons have been showing an arrogance unbecoming of their previous behaviour. Adding this episode to their disdain over the pre-order price fiasco and they have shown themselves to be more akin to the large trader than having any empathy with modellers.
I too, will now look to other, smaller traders who appreciate the business more and respond in a quick and friendlier manner. The prices are broadly similar these days too....
Luckily, I didn't go to Ally Pally, as that sort of attitude shown to Neal may have ended in both barrels coming their way.
Later,
Stu from EGDL.
For the UKF fertilizer wagons take a look at
https://www.shapeways.com/product/FGLVBX2CT/pwa-uk-fertiliser-wagon-n-scale (https://www.shapeways.com/product/FGLVBX2CT/pwa-uk-fertiliser-wagon-n-scale)
Add bogies, clean and paint. No connection - just a satisfied customer.
Quote from: EtchedPixels on March 28, 2015, 06:40:59 PM
For the UKF fertilizer wagons take a look at
https://www.shapeways.com/product/FGLVBX2CT/pwa-uk-fertiliser-wagon-n-scale (https://www.shapeways.com/product/FGLVBX2CT/pwa-uk-fertiliser-wagon-n-scale)
Add bogies, clean and paint. No connection - just a satisfied customer.
Thanks i have book marked that page. :thankyousign:
Hattons this week have managed to put me off buying anything from them in future. Shame for them really as I still have a good £10k worth of track, point motors, scenics, DCC kit and accessory / loco chips to buy for my 660sq ft railway room, although their reported attitude at the show suggests they're not particularly bothered about losing customers, or the reputation they make for themselves (they'd have assigned someone else to the job otherwise!)
I bought a Dapol HST from them a few weeks ago that had smudged paintwork on the power car. I asked about returning the power car to them in exchange for one with acceptable paintwork, but as they had sold out of the sets they suggested I send the entire set back and wait for them to get more in as they had them on order. In their defence that's all they could suggest at the time, they can't magic sets out of nowhere. However I didn't really want to do that as past experience with items "on order" from Dapol has shown that they tend to arrive in six months' / two years / five years' time / never. This would have left me with no HST and having to spend an extra £60 or so on one from eBay, so was not really a solution.
Of course sod's law came into play and they did actually receive more HSTs this week, so when I noticed they had four in stock I e-mailed again to ask if I could send the power car back. Their returns policy states that they may ask you just to send back part of your purchase, hence me asking whether they wanted me to send them the whole lot, considering the cost of international postage. They once again replied that I should send the entire set back. Fair enough, I thought, and replied asking if they'd put an acceptable set aside for me to guarantee they'd actually have something to send back to me. The reply was no, due to them having limited stock. By the time I saw their e-mail this morning their stock count was down to 1. This means I'm back to square one, in that I have a £135 purchase that is only partially unsatisfactory, which I'm being asked to return in exchange for the last available set which, for all I know, could be no better / even worse / probably gone by the time they receive mine.
What, apart from greed, would have stopped them from putting a replacement set aside for me for a couple of days? If they didn't receive mine within ten days they could just have put it back on sale.
I'm now resorting to posting the power car back to Dapol for replacement (even though they haven't bothered to reply to my e-mail), and will in future continue to buy from Rails for mail order, and from other suppliers in the north west when I'm back in the country. I was actually going to pop in next time I was up but I'll save myself the trip to Liverpool now, there's a model centre in Widnes that I'd be quite happy to accidentally find myself wandering into!
JB
Quote from: StufromEGDL on March 28, 2015, 06:20:03 PM
I too, will now look to other, smaller traders who appreciate the business more and respond in a quick and friendlier manner. The prices are broadly similar these days too....
May I suggest Hereford Models ?
The staff are friendly and happy to help & chat (this is from the owner down to the latest member of staff), they care as much about N as they do OO (indeed, N is right as you go in - OO is at the back of the shop), and I have always found their prices as good as (and sometimes
better !) than Hattons & RoS ... you can also find them at the big shows :thumbsup:
Mike
My dealings with Hattons have been at the end of the phone line, and they have always been polite. However, accompanying that is a 'take it or leave it' attitude which is in poor comparison, in my experience, to a certain emporium in Sheffield.
How many employees do they have and do they send the CEO or MD to the show(s) or was it some erk that got the dibbins on buggins turn :) !
Quote from: newportnobby on March 28, 2015, 09:15:30 PM
My dealings with Hattons have been at the end of the phone line, and they have always been polite. However, accompanying that is a 'take it or leave it' attitude which is in poor comparison, in my experience, to a certain emporium in Sheffield.
Yes, me too, most polite but the first two employees had a casual air, "send it back", when my first foray into N (and first use of Hattons) ended with the death of the loco.
Not till the third contact was the offer made of the simple proceedure of emailing a return sticker and take it all down to my local errum I forget what it is called, at McCalls anyway.
So I guess they have good and bad days and good and errr less good employees
oh and a 4th contact was needed to credit the first,outbound, postage !
Thinks, only out of pocket expenditure was 4 phone calls, hmmmm , goes in search of my billing archive :) lol!
I'd use them again if my local man dont have it.
I have to say I made a big effort to Get to Hattons while I was down visiting in Garswood late last year (400 miles from my home). Had a pocketfull of cash saved to view second hand stock before buying -only to find nothing in there and I thought it was pretty sparsely N Gauged stock anyway. I voiced my disbelief they never publicied second hand items not being held in the shop on the website but was met with apathy in the shop and a complete fob-off on politely suggesting it on E-Mail afterwards.
Must admit I walked out purposefully at the time, it was just the casual approach that you're expected to know it first that put me off. I don't think they do much to win customers to be honest though I admit their potential stock range is huge.
Mind you I did have a go at RM the other month as I sent another pack back to Hattons "not as described" and not only did postie supposedley rang my bell although I was in (and never left a missed call slip) -nobody was there when I answered the door, they woke my neighbour up on Night shift only to deliver my parcel marked HATTONS, LIVERPOOL etc back to ME In Inverness :veryangry: :censored:!! I got postage back in new stamps but that's been one of the only gripes for years
Hattons service does certainly seem to be dropping badly.
I put an order in for a few items on the 28th, then yesterday found I needed a couple more items.
sent the order off, then a little later checked 'my account' and saw that the order from the 28th was showing as 'picked-awaiting packing' with yesterdays as 'awaiting picking', so I went straight onto their 'chat' and asked if the two orders could be combined.
I've done this before and had no problems.
gave the order nos, invoice nos, and the status that was showing.
was told she'd check, and then that they'd combine the two, and if any problems would get back to me.
just checked 'my account' to see how things are going, the order from 28th has been despatched, and yesterday's is showing 'payment taken - awaiting picking'. :veryangry:
looks like I wasted my time 'chatting'.
it used to be that you sent an order, and it was despatched the next day, sometimes the same day even, now it seems the norm for orders to sit 'awaiting this, that and the other' for several days, and I've noticed that the people you get on their 'chat' these days don't seem to have the knowledge, or interest that used to be shown even a year ago.
just my opinion,
alan
update 02/04/15.
order from 28th arrived on it's own yesterday, then to add insult to injury, the order from 31st arrived today - in a box 8" x 8" x 151/2" - which was over 50% filled with a large folded sheet of white foam plus 6 of those airbag things.
a. plenty of room for the 28th's order to go in the box, as requested and agreed, and
b. 31st's order would have fitted in the normal 6" x 8" x 10" box - I know cause I've just packed it into the box that size that the 28th's order came in. plus it looks like whoever wrapped this parcel decided to use the rest of the roll of cellotape to stick up the bubble wrap. normally a couple of inches to secure the last fold, this time feet of the stuff all over it. :veryangry:
Hattons, do seem, IMHO, to be losing the plot. rant over, where did I put that bottle of Glenfiddich ?
:beers:
This seems to happen a lot nowadays when the older generation who were probably modellers themselves pass away and the youngsters take over a company and all they think about is MONEY no interest in what they sell or thier customers.
Bob
This is disquieting to read. I've bought lots of stuff from Hattons and they've always delivered quickly and cheaply to Holland (and surprisingly no packages have got lost, which often happens between the UK and Holland). But I sent them a message asking about the idea of putting Farish goods on one side until the 12-week price-fixing period was over and haven't even had an acknowledgment. If they'd said 'sorry, no we can't do that', I would have accepted that, but not getting any reply does seem to confirm the general picture being painted in this thread.
I may well think twice about placing my next order with them.
While I am by no means what your would call a experienced modeller (only really got back into modelling 2 years ago) I use to hear great things about Hattons and very few would say a bad word.
But the reviews of Hattons seem to be that it's previous high standards are slipping, this sounds like a case of a great business over expanding itself and with that the level of customer care drops which is a real shame.
I have had a number of good experiences including them refunding me the postage when I asked for royal mail delivery not Yodel and them sending it via Yodel and the ensuing nightmare (but that's another story).
Hopefully this is just a blip in what other whys for myself at least has been a good source of items, if not I fear that not only will they lose custom but the way they have grown they could potentially wipe themselves out and we loss another model shop off our streets
Whilst you can't fault delivery times from Hattons they fell out of favour with me two years ago for several reasons.
They went from no quibble returns to questioning returns except dead loco's or loco's with lights not working. Quartering and excessive noise issues were always met with 'i can't see/hear anything wrong, so we're returning the loco to you unless you want a refund'
In my opinion, the introduction of 'like new' items confirmed that they had no real modelling interest/expertise working there anymore as some of the descriptions and loco's received were bargain bin fodder. The fact that they don't check for 6 pin plugs not being inserted the right way round on 'non-runner's is just laughable.
I recently attempted to order 4 in stock wagons and place 2 pre orders both of which are due in a couple of weeks, no, they would not hold or set aside the system does not allow this so they want to charge and send as available which meant 3 lots of postage, no way Hattons lost yourselves nearly £400 order which when a guy rang couldn't really care less. Their loss.
Probably not all that relevant, but there was a little bit of discussion about Hattons on my UK adventure thread. The point being that the people working there at the time of my visit were indeed young. In terms of the over-the-counter service I received, the girl who served me was polite enough, though the young guy who served me during my 2013 visit gave the impression that he'd rather be somewhere else.
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=22698.msg254600#msg254600 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=22698.msg254600#msg254600)
I've never had any problems with them.
I placed an order with them on Friday afternoon and to my surprise it arrived on Saturday morning!
I placed an order with them on Friday and it arrived the previous Thursday
signed
H G Wells
Quote from: Agrippa on April 01, 2015, 08:42:27 AM
I placed an order with them on Friday and it arrived the previous Thursday
signed
H G Wells
I believed they packed that order next week!
:)
Way to go, and return faulty locos before they arrive.... :D
I find this all a bit discouraging, I was hoping to place an order with them next week for delivery to Japan.
I've looked at a lot of other websites but most of the items I want by Dapol and Farish are out-of-stock or discontinued and at this distance fleabay is probably not an option. :(
I've been a bit concerned recently because I started receiving emails for "like new" alternatives to items which I was looking at three or four years ago before some serious family problems stopped me going ahead. I was particularly not impressed by one email which, when I clicked on the link took me to a completely different "like new" item. ???
i can safely say I've never bought anything from Hattons, in fact I've only really seen their adverts in the Railway Modeller and been drawn into their competitive prices.
But after reading this thread I'm in two minds to pay a bit extra and have better piece of mind/customer service from a smaller company.
I'm sorry to read about others' bad experiences but i have always found Hattons to offer excellent service and very reasonable and reliable shipping to me, in Prague. I have also good experiences of DJM and Kernow Models.
Another thumbs-up from me for Hattons. While I do use other retailers, and regularly visit Kent Garden Railways when I'm in London, Hattons remains my default online retailer for most things. Used them dozens of times.
Service has been flawless thus far. Delivery has not been a problem, usually arrives within a day or two, and the Royal Mail postman knows where the "hide" the parcel if I'm not about (bless him!).
Some of the arguments against seem unreasonable. If you return a noisy loco, while it'd be nice to have a quieter one sent to you, it may well be simpler for their business model to offer a refund. Similarly some people don't like the courier they end up with, but you do get offered the choice of various Royal Mail, Interlink and Yodel options.
Cheers, NeMo
Although on the face of it a choice of carrier is offered in the past I have elected for Royal Mail and it has been ignored with items being despatched using Yodel. These days I make it clear that items must only be shipped by Royal Mail and no other way ask the order to be notated to that effect. Thus far this has worked maybe helped by me saying that if they ignore the instruction it will be my last order....but then maybe not who knows...
Roy
^^ I two have stated RM but got yodel on several occasions. The printed label they produce on the box even states clearly not to use Yodel in the delivery notes box! To be fair I stopped buying from Tesco mail order also because they couldn't guarantee it Yodel Free.
...However, no more digs! I'm just wondering why I think there's a distinct lack of trader presence on here if this is supposed to be the big N Gauge forum? Is there a reason why the big traders don't post ??? I'm beginning to feel if they had a presence allot of things could be resolved quite amicably. It's all very well saying "it's been resolved on facebook" or the likes but some of us don't use social media.
I've been on countless car and other forums -the good traders always had presence. It was their best way to keep touch with their customers!
Quote from: Roy L S on April 03, 2015, 04:22:48 PM
Although on the face of it a choice of carrier is offered in the past I have elected for Royal Mail and it has been ignored with items being despatched using Yodel. These days I make it clear that items must only be shipped by Royal Mail and no other way ask the order to be notated to that effect. Thus far this has worked maybe helped by me saying that if they ignore the instruction it will be my last order....but then maybe not who knows...
Roy
when I complained about a Royal Mail order being sent by the yahoos, I was told that if a parcel is too heavy, ie loads of ballast, or too big, ie metre lengths of track, then it is sent by them as RM won't accept them.
having said that, I've had some heavy, and long, parcels delivered by parcelforce, which I thought was the heavyweight side of RM.
or am I wrong in that ?
Quote from: class37025 on April 03, 2015, 10:37:29 PM
Quote from: Roy L S on April 03, 2015, 04:22:48 PM
Although on the face of it a choice of carrier is offered in the past I have elected for Royal Mail and it has been ignored with items being despatched using Yodel. These days I make it clear that items must only be shipped by Royal Mail and no other way ask the order to be notated to that effect. Thus far this has worked maybe helped by me saying that if they ignore the instruction it will be my last order....but then maybe not who knows...
Roy
when I complained about a Royal Mail order being sent by the yahoos, I was told that if a parcel is too heavy, ie loads of ballast, or too big, ie metre lengths of track, then it is sent by them as RM won't accept them.
having said that, I've had some heavy, and long, parcels delivered by parcelforce, which I thought was the heavyweight side of RM.
or am I wrong in that ?
Hi
No your not wrong but I willing to be yodel are significantly cheaper and they already have a contract with them unlike Parcel Force.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: RST on April 03, 2015, 10:26:54 PM
...However, no more digs! I'm just wondering why I think there's a distinct lack of trader presence on here if this is supposed to be the big N Gauge forum? Is there a reason why the big traders don't post ??? I'm beginning to feel if they had a presence allot of things could be resolved quite amicably. It's all very well saying "it's been resolved on facebook" or the likes but some of us don't use social media.
I've been on countless car and other forums -the good traders always had presence. It was their best way to keep touch with their customers!
Who's to say they are not lurking?
I agree, if I thought I was a major supplier, I'd at least monitor the forums but, then again, with complaints being levelled at Hattons/Osbournes it could just be a 'no time' issue :hmmm:
They could be forum members with names like That Son or Ros Snob, and posting positive
comments about themselves, excellent service, dealt with them for years, helpful staff etc,
that's what I'd do! :D
Quote from: Agrippa on April 04, 2015, 12:51:44 PM
They could be forum members with names like That Son or Ros Snob, and posting positive
comments about themselves, excellent service, dealt with them for years, helpful staff etc,
that's what I'd do! :D
Are you sure you're not from Ikea, 'Apa gari'? :hmmm:
I thought Apagari was a volcano in the far east.... ;D
Hi to add I have had 15 years or so ordering from Hattons and until a few months ago never had a problem. I too had specified Royal mail only and this is now hit and miss despite several amicable emails and assurances.
I have preorders over £2K in value on grounds of the early buy price but given recent Bachmann hikes and not bring able/ willing to honour does make the process useless. I do like however the notes and emails advising progress and advice on price changes and choice to cancel order.
staff have without exception been very good on the phone and emails promptly and politely answered.
I have now added more preoders to RoS as they often equal prices and postage, however Ian Allen in Brum ar good value and no postage, down the road.
All in all Hattons still get my vote and hopefully the tie up with Dave Jones will work out for N gauge modellers ! despite the comments about the Ore wagons reported at Ally Pally
Robert