Are we over the Golden Age of N Gauge?

[njee20]

I understand Trainz is different, but Train Simulator ultimately is seeking to mimic real world locations, rather than models, so it would be a bit weird to have model items in there. World editing is done by the few rather than being a part of the game.

There have been various model railway simulators over the years, they've all been terrible IMO 

[Jeff_W]

I understand Trainz is different, but Train Simulator ultimately is seeking to mimic real world locations, rather than models, so it would be a bit weird to have model items in there. World editing is done by the few rather than being a part of the game.

There have been various model railway simulators over the years, they've all been terrible IMO 

Trainz would probably be the route for them to go then...I think they've always advertised their games as either a real world railroad simulator or a model railroad simulator. The latest iteration of the game that I have has scenarios for both. One I played was on the C&O deep in the Appalachian mountains, while another was a model train layout in a small "room".

[acko22]

Hi all,

Well I am one who thinks defining a golden age is so difficult, it depends what you are after honestly may that be down to price, detailing, even what models are available...

As to virtual railways yes they have gained interest and do doubt taken some people away from modelling but on the flip side they will have brought people into the hobby. One thing that I can honestly say though is should there be an question of price I think we have to be very careful quantifying it.

I do know someone who does like their train sims and when he told me how much it cost him for the game then the add on packs and the need for a new computer and the required graphics card my jaw dropped! When I worked it out I could have built an amazing layout with the same amount of cash.
It's not like its a cheap interest either just like modelling there is always something new!

[railsquid]

But I don't see them as competition because IMO humans need physical as well as mental stimulus.  Computer games provide great visual and audio experiences, but modelling satisfies the sensory need for touch, and even smell, in addition.

Cheers

Ben A.

I think @Ben A  has a point here.
However, the sensory stimulation gained from modelling (or any enjoyable activity for that matter) goes way beyond the five senses. I have a bit of a background in sensory education. Since it is the senses that are responsible for the way we interact and understand the world, then it is the senses that we (teachers) concentrate on in early development. Much of this is done through parenting for neuro-typical children, but for those of us who work with young people who remain within the early stages of development, then sensory education is the way in.
So what has this got to do with modelling? Its important to understand there are way more than five senses, the obvious one missing from the list is balance. There are others. The relevance for modelling is that we interact with our activity and perceive it through our senses. This includes the way we feel about the activity. So when Ben says there is a sensory need for touch and smell etc, he is right, but it is way more complex than that. There are hundreds of thousands of sensory receptors in the body, possibly or even probably millions. I would therefore say the sensation of modelling is indeed complex.

As someone who spends pretty much all day in front of a computer screen, one reason for adopting this hobby is that it involves *not* sitting in front of a computer screen all the time (well apart from posting on forums etc. ). It's also one reason why I can't be bothered with DCC and all that, I just want something nice and analogue and simple where I don't end up fighting with some recalcitrant bl**dy technology.

As for golden ages, around this time five years ago I had precisely 0 (zero) N scale models, now I appear to have acquired a bewildering variety and more than I will ever really need, moreover I finally have a BR Blue Class 86, so as far as I'm concerned things can only get better. (Though I will never be truly happy until someone brings out some 116/117 DMU variation, hint hint).

[Bealman]

After a BR BLUE! class 86, things had bloody well wanna get better 

[Leon]

As someone who spends pretty much all day in front of a computer screen, one reason for adopting this hobby is that it involves *not* sitting in front of a computer screen all the time (well apart from posting on forums etc. ). It's also one reason why I can't be bothered with DCC and all that, I just want something nice and analogue and simple where I don't end up fighting with some recalcitrant bl**dy technology.

I can certainly relate to railsquid's comment. Likewise, I was spending too much time in front of the computer display with my genealogical research. Having always been attracted to steam locomotives, I decided to get off my butt and build a model layout. I had no idea, though, how much detail was involved - beyond what I can see with my failing eyesight. I'd probably have chosen 00 had I known! While I still like being able to design and build twice as much in the same space, I do feel that spending great sums of money for models incorporating details which can't readily be seen, even by people with normal vision, doesn't make a lot of sense. To repeat a point in my previous post, the Golden Age for N gauge may be in the past unless manufacturers provide more basic models at prices that will attract larger numbers of people to the hobby. The available product is far greater than the demand, it seems to me, and I'm not sure it can be sustained.

Leon

[crewearpley40]

squiddy has a br blue class 86 ?

what next ? 87 and a 90 ?

[railsquid]

Indeed. The point being 5 or so years ago when I first entered this hobby you could get a class 86 in any colour you wanted (even yellow), apart from blue, because Dapol in their infinite wisdom released it as a limited edition sold via a single retailer, and they were rare as hen's teeth, and they finally got round to re-releasing them this year.

A blue 87 would be nice, though I'm not sure about a blue 90...

[crewearpley40]

a blue class 87 or even one in intercity livery i meant

and the intercity liveried 90 - if you like class 90s. i would prefer the class 85 if ever one is released

[njee20]

To repeat a point in my previous post, the Golden Age for N gauge may be in the past unless manufacturers provide more basic models at prices that will attract larger numbers of people to the hobby. The available product is far greater than the demand, it seems to me, and I'm not sure it can be sustained.

But a manufacturer has told you why that won't work (and I agree). Then there's the constant lamenting that certain items have sold out really quickly, let alone all the clamouring for new releases. I don't see any evidence at all of supply outstripping demand.

[Leon]

... the "demands from purists" make very little difference to the end price. The reality is that the market has moved on from mis-shapen models and expects reasonable levels of detail. If you remove that detail or accuracy then people don't buy the models and the potential market would be much smaller.

The only ways you can feasibly create a railroad type line of more basic models is either have a much, much larger market (you'd probably have to multiply the current UK N Gauge market by 10 times) ....

Mike, early in my life I was trained as a direct sales representative while employed with two American/International Fortune 500 companies. The training emphasized the salesman's need to create a market for the product he was selling. My posts in this thread are suggesting that manufacturers might be missing a great opportunity for expanding the market by providing choice in the level of detail/complexity/authenticity built into their product. I'm not nearly as competent about the subject as others in this forum and I'm totally without experience in manufacturing or retail marketing so perhaps I'm "whistling Dixie" (pardon the American expression). I'm just expressing an opinion in response to the subject of the thread. Failure to win (or sustain) market share is almost always the failure to be innovative.

Leon

[PLD]

My posts in this thread are suggesting that manufacturers might be missing a great opportunity for expanding the market by providing choice in the level of detail/complexity/authenticity built into their product.

We've been over this so many times...

If you provide two models of the same loco to two different specifications, you will (near enough) double the development and tooling costs. Then, unless you double the production batch size (i.e. if current batch is 1000, make 1000 high spec and 1000 low spec), you will also have a higher per unit production cost.

That means unless you can double the size of the market, the low spec model will probably cost MORE than the current price of the current single-spec model... Do you really think it is realistic to expect the availability of a low-spec variant to double overall sales? otherwise are you willing to pay more to get a poorer-spec model?

[cornish yorkie]

  & good evening thank you everyone for another very interesting discussion. My short answer to the original question is emphatically no.
  I have recently purchased the Pendelino & the T tankers from RevolutioN, waiting patiently for the 92, 5600xx & the 321 with lots more fantastic looking new releases in pipeline. Loving N gauge right now.
    regards Derek. Hi

[Jeff_W]

My posts in this thread are suggesting that manufacturers might be missing a great opportunity for expanding the market by providing choice in the level of detail/complexity/authenticity built into their product.

We've been over this so many times...

If you provide two models of the same loco to two different specifications, you will (near enough) double the development and tooling costs. Then, unless you double the production batch size (i.e. if current batch is 1000, make 1000 high spec and 1000 low spec), you will also have a higher per unit production cost.

That means unless you can double the size of the market, the low spec model will probably cost MORE than the current price of the current single-spec model... Do you really think it is realistic to expect the availability of a low-spec variant to double overall sales? otherwise are you willing to pay more to get a poorer-spec model?

ScaleTrains does this in the states. They have an "Operator" line and a "Rivet Counter" line, with the latter being a bit more costly than the former. The Operator line is for those who want to detail the engines themselves or don't want to spend as much money. Their ES44s in N scale are still about $40-50 more than other DCC Ready locomotives by other manufacturers, which is one of the reasons I only have one ST locomotive (bought at a closing hobby shop for $75).

[njee20]

Hornby do it too with Railroad, often recycling older tooling. British N categorically isn't a big enough market though to sustain two different ranges. I think people over estimate how price sensitive the market is. With Hornby the difference is greater too, many of the "full fat" models are £150+. We're not seeing that in N yet.