Cost of N Gauge Models in Context

Started by Rabbitaway, May 21, 2020, 07:03:15 PM

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martyn

Quote;

'I recall someone having a go at the Dapol representative at the NGS AGM back in 2013 or thereabouts ... and he came back fighting with the fact that Dapol had listened to what modellers said they wanted - crimson Gresleys - so they had produced crimson Gresleys and got their fingers badly burned which left them very disinclined to listen to society surveys rather than their own market research. '

Personally, I shied away from the first issue of Dapol maroon Gresleys as the bogie centres were inaccurate, and didn't look good against a set of Minitrix ones, or even phots and drawings. Even the Mk2 version of these still doesn't look completely right, with the respaced bogie centres, though I have now some of the mk2 version in maroon and also C+C.

What is amazing is the way that Dapol has controlled the price to be very similar (even cheaper? Can't remember) than the first issues.

Martyn






MatP

Hi Again,

Speaking as someone who has never bought a car for five figures or owned a car that had at some point in its life been worth five figures, I wish I had been able to find the RRP of a cheaper car in 1990, that's still in production in a more modern form, than a Golf GTi, to use as an example...

My mother lived in a new-build Persimmon Home in Oxford for a while in the 90's (on the old Rewley Road station site) - a truly awfully-put together building, which she moved out of again as soon as she could. On the other hand, if she was still alive and still owned it, it would probably be worth about a billion pounds now...

To avoid N gauge becoming a rich man's hobby, I think it behoves us to come up with as many cheapo modelling projects as possible. Here's a photo of the remote-part-of-Scotland oil depot I've been building recently.

The tank and some of the details are from a Kibri kit (cheap second hand purchase), other bits (including most of the pipework and the little shed) are scratchbuilt. The railings on the top of the tank are cut down and hot-water-bent Kestrel fence, the 'bund' wall is shaved down Peco platform edging, the door of the hut is a side-wall from a never-built GWR pagoda shelter and the hut roof was cut out of a spare planked floor from an NGS wagon kit. It's far from perfect but the whole lot (the pipes extend far enough to service five tankers at once) probably cost less than the TTA wagon. 

Regards,
Mat


Dr Al

Quote from: njee20 on May 30, 2020, 10:27:19 AM
I've got a couple of 90s, but all later Chinese releases, and actually I don't use them because they look poor alongside other contemporary models.

Perhaps tangential to the thread, but with some work they can be detailed up. All the basics are there - a good body shape, reliable mechanism. Adding front end details, and also uprating the wheels can get you a long way.



(this has had later wheels fitted subsequently - those from new tool 57, which are even closer to scale).

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

"We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces."Dr. Carl Sagan

dannyboy

That is some clever modelling Mat using just 'bits'.  :thumbsup:
David.
I used to be indecisive - now I'm not - I don't think.
If a friend seems distant, catch up with them.

njee20

Quote from: Dr Al on May 30, 2020, 08:44:25 PM
Perhaps tangential to the thread, but with some work they can be detailed up. All the basics are there - a good body shape, reliable mechanism. Adding front end details, and also uprating the wheels can get you a long way.

Yeah I fitted a PH Designs kit on one, which looked far better, then I sold it, and have yet to do another! The printed lights and the bogie mounted air dam are the worst.

The body shape is alright, but it's not perfect; the cab roof is wrong. They're a simple design though, which helps.

jpendle

Quote from: njee20 on May 30, 2020, 09:57:46 PM
The printed lights and the bogie mounted air dam are the worst.


That's what does it for me with earlier Farish models. When I started modelling again about 15 years ago I asked for a CL158 as a Christmas present.
Apart from testing it, I've never run it on the layout as the printed lights and doors really let it down alongside my CL156's and CL150's.
And now I've gone to DCC it's destined to be donated to my Grandson's Kato layout.

Regards,

John P
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

And my Automation Thread

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=52597.msg687934#msg687934

Wrinkly1

I have been following this topic with a good deal of interest, but have nothing much to add except to the comment from PGN (on 28th May). I have been running N gauge locos since 1976 and at one time in the 1980s could boast that I owned at least one example of EVERY uk loco available in N gauge (and most of the kits as well). By way of comparison I own over 70 of them today, restrict myself to buying from one era, but still cannot come anywhere near same boast. If you look at old copies of Railway Modeller from the 1970s you will see continental N gauge locos being run on uk layouts simply because of the lack of variety.
Incidentally, my 1st loco was the Farish 94XX tank with the 'new' motor and I used it on my layout for a while last week. Noisy and basic, but still doing what it was bought for!

Ted

I think a few of the replies here prove that you can enjoy this hobby no matter your budget.

MatP literally spent 1/10th what I would have doing that scene, it doesn't make either of us right or guarantee I'd achieve a better outcome. It does however prove this isn't an elitist or rich man's hobby - it is what you want it to be!

It's the same for any hobby, take cycling. There are people quite happy with a £500 bike and will ride it for years. There are however, people who spend 5-10k on their bike and gear, and keep spending... to do exactly the same thing, ride.

Shooting, angling, golfing... you name it. The budgets vary from literally a few quid right up to £100,000+.

One things for sure, collecting stock is highly addictive and we need to seek therapy on a regular basis.
Just call me Ted, or Edward... or Ed.

Just not Eddie.

Layout & Updates > Midlands Coal & Freight, Late 1980's


37214

Quote from: jpendle on May 31, 2020, 12:04:03 AM
Quote from: njee20 on May 30, 2020, 09:57:46 PM
The printed lights and the bogie mounted air dam are the worst.


That's what does it for me with earlier Farish models. When I started modelling again about 15 years ago I asked for a CL158 as a Christmas present.
Apart from testing it, I've never run it on the layout as the printed lights and doors really let it down alongside my CL156's and CL150's.
And now I've gone to DCC it's destined to be donated to my Grandson's Kato layout.

Regards,

John P

This is just an observation, not a criticism; back in the early 1990s that is all we had. I have one of these 158s (it's still in the loft) and thought it was a great model at the time; it was good, for its time. Things have definitely improved in the last 25 years since I was modelling regularly, my new class 37 is magnificent compared to my old Poole Farish 37s but I still love them. Looks like I'll be running 2 fleets of 37s in the future.

Doltic

Quote from: Ted on May 31, 2020, 10:45:14 AM
I think a few of the replies here prove that you can enjoy this hobby no matter your budget.

MatP literally spent 1/10th what I would have doing that scene, it doesn't make either of us right or guarantee I'd achieve a better outcome. It does however prove this isn't an elitist or rich man's hobby - it is what you want it to be!

I absolutely agree with this - It doesn't have to be very expensive if you are willing to either shop around or make your own. While I was still planning to get some scenery done (that's all gone out of the window now, my tremors are to blame) it wasn't something I would have had to budget a fortune for.

There's of course cheaper hobbies, but not that many. If I have a look at the money I blow on cars or the RC drone ...  :goggleeyes:
Deltic nerd.

now owns a BR01.

njee20

I've written this post so many times I just Googled it to find the last time I wrote it!

My take is that entry to model railways is cheap (still). You can buy a starter set for £100 and be away. You need never spend another pound, those models will, broadly speaking, work for decades. That makes it cheaper than many of the other hobbies mentioned. What makes it expensive is that people then want to grow their collection. That's their choice, and the limit there has always been driven by a number of factors, including cost.

railsquid

Meanwhile, over in the 1:32 world of Gauge 1, if you're wondering what to do with 23,000 spare Euros, here's a suggestion:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdHYzOk-D8k

MatP

Hi,

Please don't take this as a snipe at people who have been quite rightly pointing out that there are plenty of other hobbies out there that can be as or more expensive as N gauge modelling.

There are plenty of people out there who don't spend thousands of pounds on N gauge not because they have spent it on other hobbies but because they don't have thousands of pounds to spend.

Building an N gauge layout is almost certainly cheaper than collecting MacLaren F1's, Gutenberg Bibles, bottles of 19th-century French Brandy or toilet rolls. That doesn't mean it's cheap.

By the same token, building an N gauge layout is usually dearer than going for walks in the park (unless you get mugged a lot), doing crosswords, singing in the church choir or knitting. That doesn't mean it has to be expensive.

There are good reasons why my five Seacows are now worth about the same as I paid for my 1:1 scale narrow gauge tipper wagon, but I also know which one gives me the more entertainment per pound.

Anyway, at the moment I'm building a road overbridge out of card, MDF offcuts and Scalescenes brickpaper printed onto self-adhesive A4 sheets. That's quite cheap.  However, I confess I also have the air-conditioning on (my house has a fully-fitted system) as I hate hot weather. That's not cheap.

Best Wishes,
Mat

njee20

That's sort of the point I was trying to make. Yes, you can spend thousands, but people who do are probably in a minority, and you absolutely don't have to spend thousands full stop. Either becuase you've comitted that spend to other hobbies, or you simply don't have/don't want to spend that. Other hobbies (and yes I accept singing in a choir or crosswords aren't the same) have a higher cost of entry, and higher ongoing costs.

Another point I think relevant to model railways and the 'value' (perceived or otherwise) is the high resale values. We've had several references to cycling, but it's something I know a lot about, so I'll revisit that analogy. The classic rule of thumb is that a bike is worth 50% of it's new price, less 10% year-on-year.  There are very, very few total exceptions to that - something going up in value is virtually unheard of, on the presumption it's used, and even unused is very rare.

Compare that to model railways - I'll often buy things I'm not entirely sure if I want/need because I'm confident that after 6 months, a year, 5 years, I can just sell it for close to what I paid or even a slight (or massive) profit.

I was very fortunate to get bikes at a heavily subsidised price (basically half) for a number of years, I'd sell them off after c9 months of use, but even at 50% of new value the market was so small that it was really hard to find buyers. Conversely CJM locos and dutch seacows seem to have an inexhaustive number of people paying significant sums!

exmouthcraig

Life is expensive, just simple fact of living unfortunately.

If you want an expensive hobby that makes N gauge look like a paupers past time try competing horses!!!!

My good lady competes at BE Intermediate level, wont mean much to many but what it means to me is ££££££, we dont have a truck with living in, but we still rebuilt the trailer, need a decent tow car and 4days worth of food for every competition she competes in, plus a bed each night.

The horses cost the same as the aforementioned Golf GTI, each one goes through £100 shoes every month, unless they throw one competing, they cost us probably £3000 on feed and bedding each year, that would need a stable ontop if we didnt own them.

Vets fees are considerable even if they dont injure themselves. Just as an example one not too long ago smashed its jaw on the stable door, it was rushed to Oakham for emergency surgery into the middle of the night, its jaw was wired up, 3 teeth replaced and spent 3 days recovering in hospital, came home with a suitcase of drugs and a bill for £7000!!!!!!

She treated herself to a new saddle for one with a list of extras as long as the horses leg and that came in at £5000

She needs boots, jackets, hats, gloves, shirts, johds,other boots and other gloves.

They are insured, they need work 6 days a week, they have a hydro treadmill in it's own building with a solarium for heat treatment and for something that just eats grass they probably cost £50k a year!!!!! Still at least she only has 2!!!!

Sometimes they wont even compete because theyll injure themselves or she will but they still need to be ready to compete and the work still has to be done.

She doesnt have sponsorship and everything is paid out of our own pocket, so in comparison even a 48ft layout in it's own barn is cheap compared to mid level 3day eventing!!!!

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