Sonic announce Newton Chambers TCV Anglo-Scottish Car Carriers in N gauge!

[martyn]

Here are the two photos;








the further comment from Sonic is;

"The attached images reveal the alternative roof light positions as per the prototype as well as the detailed bogies and underframe".

Martyn

[martyn]

Sonic have received the first decorated samples of the Newton Chambers car carriers.

Quote from Sonic;

"Attached are the images showing both liveries for the first painted samples received the other day. They give a clear indication of what is to come, but they were not perfect and hence close-ups only. Sam has already identified and notified the factory of details that need correcting prior to production commencing"

Here we go, maroon first; there's six photos in all , so I'll split into the two liveries.












Martyn

[martyn]

And now the blue/grey;












Martyn

[Roy L S]

Sonic have received the first decorated samples of the Newton Chambers car carriers.

Quote from Sonic;

"Attached are the images showing both liveries for the first painted samples received the other day. They give a clear indication of what is to come, but they were not perfect and hence close-ups only. Sam has already identified and notified the factory of details that need correcting prior to production commencing"

Here we go, maroon first; there's six photos in all , so I'll split into the two liveries.












Martyn

Looking very nice indeed and an interesting and in many ways surprising choice of prototype. I look forward to further images in due course. Not a model on my personal preorder list but I hope it does well for Sonic.

Roy

[Richard Taylor]

Five months on from the last post, showing first decorated samples, is there any more information about these vehicles? My pre-order page on the Rails website is silent.  Which as they have had £75-worth of *non-refundable* deposits from me for these since mid-2023 isn't... great.

I know that Martyn sometimes posts Sonic updates on the Forum but only in a personal capacity. In this day and age of long product lead times but "write something once, then post in all media with one click" I think that Sonic need to pay a bit more attention to keeping customers informed. 

Something simple like the Revolution online "project status" sheet would be good. I might not like how long it's taking their K class Pullmans to appear, but at least I can see what stage they're at and that the project hasn't disappeared!

Richard

[Bob Tidbury]

I agree the products are really good but the information isnt we are still waiting for news of the Prairie .as said before a simple note like Revolutions Project page would at least give us some hope of receiving our models and any reason for the delay .
Bob

[martyn]

Hello Bob;

The Prairies are en route to the UK, the ship left Singapore earlier this week, and is on schedule for 1st or 2nd at Felixstowe.

I'm aware that things are happening with the car carriers and Vanwides, but I don't know any details; the factory was on holiday last week, which hasn't helped. As soon as I hear from Sonic, I'll let you know. Though work has been continuing on the vanwides and NCC, the main concentration recently was approving and getting the Prairies into production and shipped.

Martyn

[Roy L S]

I have to admit that the whole principle of pre-ordering and paying a deposit (especially if "non-refundable") is one I am now personally reconsidering for future purchases.

This doesn't just apply in respect of Rails/Sonic, but any dealer/manufacturer/society and whether that be an up front payment in respect of a crowd funded model a "contribution" as was the case for the NGS cranes (that it turns out is explicitly not a deposit and your then discounted purchase in effect becomes a separate transaction if and when it happens) or a traditional deposit as a down payment.

Too often in my view timescales given for delivery seem to have been unreasonably optimistic leading to deposits being paid for items where there was no real prospect of delivery within the timescale stated (indeed some products said to be in production at that point pretty clearly weren't). If I know at the outset it is likely to be three years or more, than that's fine, I can make an informed choice, but that hasn't been the case.

The benefit of paying (we are told) is that it guarantees our model, but as things have played out, not only are there plenty of models to go around in most cases, but on some occasion the prices have subsequent to release even been discounted to less than the pre-order price which is pretty galling (as we are seeing with the J50!).

Just as bad is paying up front for a crowdfunded model in full, only to find the delivery date originally given pushed back and back until it is years late and delivery bears no resemblance to the original date at all (except possibly being the same decade!).

Of course some slippage is to be expected, that is a fact of life, but when the timeframe slips by a year or even more or continues to be pushed back then then it becomes much less so to me.

The scenario for me is different if I haven't paid a deposit/up front payment, having no financial "skin in the game", should I wish I can exit the transaction at any time without penalty. To take a personal example, the new run of Farish J39s was supposed to have arrived a year ago, I was told they weren't happy with the running so pulled production. Here we are, a year later and it is still "awaiting" on their website which, given no expected delivery date, means it is likely a further year away at least. No recent update and no response to my most recent enquiry, so, I may decide to cancel in due course and spend the money allocated on something else, I have the option - I am not "locked in".

I respect there are different views and am not asking anyone to agree with me, but nonetheless it is where I now am on this matter.

Roy

[njee20]

There is no legal ground that on which they can make your deposit non-refundable. That may stand where the items are custom made (eg a commissioned repaint), but you have a 100% legal right to change your mind up to 14 days after receipt of the goods, as you've not had the chance to inspect them prior to purchase.

Personally I never pre-order stuff. I'm not aware of anything selling out on pre-order. I make an exception for Revolution because of the price advantage. I think Sonic are in a tough position. Yes, posting online is easy, but if there's no news there's no news. Ok Revolution have a page you can view, but ultimately these are somewhere in between decorated samples and production. Sure we'll all find out when they land!

Hope they're more successful than the OO gauge Heljan ones, which seem to have been offered heavily discounted.

[Roy L S]

There is no legal ground that on which they can make your deposit non-refundable. That may stand where the items are custom made (eg a commissioned repaint), but you have a 100% legal right to change your mind up to 14 days after receipt of the goods, as you've not had the chance to inspect them prior to purchase.

Personally I never pre-order stuff. I'm not aware of anything selling out on pre-order. I make an exception for Revolution because of the price advantage. I think Sonic are in a tough position. Yes, posting online is easy, but if there's no news there's no news. Ok Revolution have a page you can view, but ultimately these are somewhere in between decorated samples and production. Sure we'll all find out when they land!

Hope they're more successful than the OO gauge Heljan ones, which seem to have been offered heavily discounted.

Under distance selling regulations (as I understand it) I can change my mind and return the item for a full refund, but that is only after it has been delivered, but what I cannot do (or is less clear) is the position as regards recovering a "non-refundable" deposit.

If delivery was by a set and specific date, then non-delivery would be a breach of contract that seems quite clear, but what Rails have said in their T&Cs for such models is that (and this is from the Sonic Newton Chambers car carriers by way of an example) Expected Delivery Q3 2024 (Subject to change at Manufacturer's Discretion). Now to what extent that would stand legal scrutiny I don't know, but the intent seems clear - it can take as long as it takes.

As I say, my personal view/choice as regards future pre-orders requiring a deposit may differ from the majority.

Regards

Roy

[njee20]

I think you'd have an extremely compelling case to take them to court if they withheld your deposit, like I said, they have no legitimate grounds to do so. Them calling it non-refundable isn't good enough, any more than can write into their T&Cs that they'll retain your card details and charge it sporadically for buying staff lunch.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/can-i-claim-back-a-non-refundable-deposit-aHwOj3S21AWP

But we digress!