I am building my first N gauge railway, and a question which I cannot seem to find on the Internet. That is my layout is being built to c1966-67 era. Now my question is about road markings. I gather the warboys signs where gradually being introduced at this time, but what were the major junction line markings i.e. were they solid or dotted and was the warning triangle on the road, like there is today?
Any help from members would be appreciated
G'day from Australia, geoffgill, and welcome to the NGF! :thumbsup:
You're stretching me memory now, but I'm pretty certain there were no triangles on the road in those days. :beers:
In fact, I recall "Major road ahead" and a dead stop at the dotted line.
Look in second hand book shops and flea markets for a copy of the Highway code from the date range you want. As I recall they used photographs to illustrate.
Hi Geoff, and welcome to the NGF! :thumbsup:
This topic rang a bell, so I did a quick search on the Forum and came across this thread from last year that has a few details and links you might like to follow up on:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=36227.msg425521#msg425521 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=36227.msg425521#msg425521)
I also recall a schoolboy joke of my era: a book, "The Crossroads" by Major Roadahead.
:D :sorrysign:
thanks for all of that. I have checked some of the links & posts out. And think I have a better idea. Trouble is I think there was a lot of changes in the era what with the gradual changeover to warboys signs and the new idea to beat all traffic jams i.e. The Motorway
So I do not think there is a definitive right or wrong way. :thankyousign:
Hello Geoff, and welcome to the forum :wave:
Quote from: Snowwolflair on October 31, 2018, 10:39:57 AM
Look in second hand book shops and flea markets for a copy of the Highway code from the date range you want. As I recall they used photographs to illustrate.
From what I can see, the Highway code was revised in 1959 and not again until 1968. The "new" signs appear in the 1968 edition.
The 1959 edition can be found at http://normandyhistorians.co.uk/hwc/1959hwc/index.html (http://normandyhistorians.co.uk/hwc/1959hwc/index.html)
Quote from: geoffgil on October 31, 2018, 04:25:50 PM
So I do not think there is a definitive right or wrong way. :thankyousign:
There was a right way when I took the test and passed my Cycling Proficiency and got the little enamelled triangular badge in 1966, but I'm darned if I can remember what it was! :doh:
But back then we young cyclists were supposed to have lights, mudguards, a bell, got told off for riding on the pavement, and minded our road manners, sometimes. ;)
Progress, eh. :(
Glad the info was helpful for you Geoff.
I'm desperately trying to remember but I don't think there was a triangle on the road.
Have a rummage around this horribly long link - not a triangle in sight:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=photos+uk+road+junctions+1966&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:Ca7v0dL4uCGOIjje0fibJ-a800YJibj5dKo4mAI7X697Gi5bcWNbZr0se6jUn11x4VoOY9Dytj2I5KZHSHLHiq1Y8CoSCd7R-Jsn5rzTEVVTd-ycNe9gKhIJRgmJuPl0qjgRv6iGt53mMeYqEgmYAjtfr3saLhEL9cGL13sl3ioSCVtxY1tmvSx7EZKZzaVtXEvYKhIJqNSfXXHhWg4RoHKpvxrmUfkqEglj0PK2PYjkphFbPolEs0Ep1SoSCUdIcseKrVjwETw1Z-aX_1KTg&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi_z9rBmLHeAhWF2SwKHZ-_CwQQ9C96BAgBEBs&biw=1366&bih=626&dpr=1 (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=photos+uk+road+junctions+1966&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:Ca7v0dL4uCGOIjje0fibJ-a800YJibj5dKo4mAI7X697Gi5bcWNbZr0se6jUn11x4VoOY9Dytj2I5KZHSHLHiq1Y8CoSCd7R-Jsn5rzTEVVTd-ycNe9gKhIJRgmJuPl0qjgRv6iGt53mMeYqEgmYAjtfr3saLhEL9cGL13sl3ioSCVtxY1tmvSx7EZKZzaVtXEvYKhIJqNSfXXHhWg4RoHKpvxrmUfkqEglj0PK2PYjkphFbPolEs0Ep1SoSCUdIcseKrVjwETw1Z-aX_1KTg&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi_z9rBmLHeAhWF2SwKHZ-_CwQQ9C96BAgBEBs&biw=1366&bih=626&dpr=1)
Dave G
It is correct that road signs and markings took time to be updated during the 1960's.
As a retired driving instructor I can clarify the triangles on the road.
The triangle painted on the road is used in conjunction with a give way sign at the junction which indicates a closed junction (restricted visibility but not severe enough to be STOP junction). There will also be double white dotted lines at the junction.
Most junctions have just double white lines which by themselves mean give way and as such no additional sign is needed.
You will notice a mix of both types of junction in your own local area.
So it will be prototypical just to have double white lines at junction.
The 'halt at major road ahead' sign is the forerunner of the STOP sign seen today, and could also be used in the mid sixties.
Hope this helps.
Chris
My recollection is that the predecessor to "Give Way", still around in the 1960s was "Slow Major Road Ahead". Similar to the stop sign, with the circle and triangle symbol on top, but rectangular, rather than "Tee" shaped. We emigrated in 1964, but I don't recall any give way triangles up to that date. Sadly, I cannot find my Cycling Proficiency Certificate".
I have both Slow and Stop signs in N scale, purchased many years ago from "Tiny Signs".
8)
Thanks for everybodys help on this. I have found a copy of the 1968 highway code, which has the road markings I originally asked about. It seems if you are building model roads around c1966 you can have a mix of road signs and markings i.e. between 1965 and 1968 was a transition period, as they could not have been altered in one instant. I presume everything was complete when the 1968 highway code was published.
:NGaugersRule:
You're jogging me memory now. :thumbsup:
The transition did indeed take a few years.
Thanks for the walk down memory lane! :beers:
Its surprising how certain things jog your memory. I was driving through this period, the transition so slow that you hardly notice it.
I cannot remember how we were able to interpret the new signs without a Highway Code to help.
I suppose we just used common sense!!!!! :thumbsup:
Indeed. If I recall, there was a bit of a furore that the new signs were totally graphical, without words.
I particularly remember the slippery skid sign with the crossed road marks being under huge media scrutiny as a joke!
Fast forward to today, with most phone, tablet, and computer interfaces being graphical! :beers:
It is correct that after worboys the next edition of the Highway Code was not published until 1968. By this time there would have been a mix of old and new signs. There were a few updates after 1968 particularly when decimalisation came in. I can't find the exact date that warning triangle painted on roads were introduced but I think that was one of the later updates. So if modelling 1966 I would not use this marking.
As a matter of interest there are still many pre-worboys signs still in use today. Not far from where I live is a cattle crossing sign which has the old cast iron triangle but with the modern cattle sign below it.
Chris
I have just looked at the 1960's road safety film as mentioned in another post by Gawain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS4XBrzq1Kw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS4XBrzq1Kw)
After watching the film I wondered when it was made, The following shots were noted:
Road surface warning triangles at 14:14mins 16:45mins and 17:00mins in to the film. So they were clearly used when film was made. Now there is no date of filming, but it was noted that alot of the time they were using a MK1 Cortina with a C reg and about 8000 miles on the clock, so was fairly new. Now I checked the internet and C registrations were issued in ;D1965.
So it looks as though triangles as road marking were starting to be used, but I am sure some "giveway" junctions did not have them.
What do other members think?
A lot of the footage is from around Windsor Datchet and Windsor Great Park area.
There is a great series on youtube called Look at Life, quite a few 1950's / 1960's transport related mini-documentaries. The video quality is very good, and may help with road markings etc.
Cheers,
Jimmy
Thanks Geoffgil a very enlightening film. I stand to be corrected! It is indeed a Mark 1 Cortina of 1965 vintage. I did'nt pass my driving test until 1967 and do not remember the triangles on the road in my local area. That was 50 years ago so memory not what it might be!
The film clearly shows the triangle painted on the road but application of the 'modern sineage' may have taken a while to be implemented throughout the country.
:thankyousign:
Chris
Thanks a lot Geoff.
Some lovely images of classic vehicles - I loved the beer tanker with the giant beer barrel.
Sad to see the e-type with dented wings getting a parking ticket.
Separating cars from pedestrians didn't work - look what they did to Birmingham city centre.
Was Cumbernauld where they filmed "Gregory's Girl" ?
Best regards,
Joe
The main problem with the Highway Code, as suggested in other replies, is that it only shows you the markings a driver would be expected to see on the roads. The same is true of videos on YouTube.
If you want the details of how to set up the correct road markings you need to look at the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions for the period you are modelling. The first was published on 1st January 1965 (and gave the details of how to layout the new road markings as created by the Worboys Committee of 1963). There are still plenty of the pre-Worboys road signs out there, but as far as I know all the corresponding road markings are long gone.
Just watched this film. It was filmed sometime after 1967 as the roads have double yellow lines on them, which were first used in London during 1967.