Just been reading about the possibility of introducing lowering the speed at which we could be fined to just 1 mph above the speed limit. I'm pretty sure there are some IAM on this forum and just wondered if, in their opinion, it is really possible to keep within the speed limits. Do they have any 'tips'? How accurate are car speedometers? When I am using my satnav it shows lower than the speedo.
ONE mph above the speed limit?!
In my last few visits to the UK, I was sitting on the speed limit on cruise control, but everything.... and I mean everything, was fanging past me at lightspeed! :confused2:
Quote from: bob lawrence on August 19, 2018, 08:36:36 AM
Just been reading about the possibility of introducing lowering the speed at which we could be fined to just 1 mph above the speed limit.
Source for this article or policy?
The Vehicle Construction Act allows a tolerance on the speedometer reading, and this varies by vehicle type
In my own car the build certificate show 10% at 110 km/h
I know driving at a displayed 30mph roadside detectors have shown anything from 26 mph to 34 mph
It is up to each constabulary to decide what enforcement policy to use
The majority of forces use speed limit plus 10% plus 2 mph, for fixed cameras
Sadly it would be too easy to defend such a case in court if the offence was driving at 31 mph in a 30 mph zone
The case needs to show excessive speeding and it being in the public interest
It would certainly be thrown out in Scotland
Speedos are a lot more accurate than they used to be, but will still typically over read by 2-5%, they mustn't by law under read, for obvious reasons.
Seems overly draconian and will result in punishing minor lapses of judgement rather than genuine offences.
It also strikes me slightly as internet scaremongering, mind!
Here in New South Wales, there is a very hard line on speeding. The motorway limit is 110kph. I set my cruise control to 112, which the GPS shows is actually 110, and virtually nobody overtakes me. Drivers just don't take the risk.
:(
It's also worth adding that under current law they can, of course, fine you for being 1mph over the limit. The clue's in the name "limit", although loads of people seem to think that they're untouchable below the mythical 10% +2mph over the limit. They just don't tend to do it because people would appeal for calibration issues and all sorts of other things, and the volumes would be massive.
Quote from: Stuart Down Under on August 19, 2018, 09:22:06 AM
Here in New South Wales, there is a very hard line on speeding. The motorway limit is 110kph. I set my cruise control to 112, which the GPS shows is actually 110, and virtually nobody overtakes me. Drivers just don't take the risk.
:(
Exactly. It is so strict I often call NSW a police state.
I still to this day can't understand sitting on the UK motorways on the speed limit, and everything flying past me.
Not a police car in sight anywhere!
Over here they hide in the bushes!!!
Hi
I'm pretty sure this came from a comment made by a senior police officer at a conference earlier this year.
For reasons already stated in this thread it isn't going to happen.
Cheers
Paul
I'm probably going to court disaster here but when working as a salesman (all mouth & motorway) I used to drive on motorways at a steady 80mph and have never received a ticket in more than 400,000 miles. Even these days if you do less than 80 you seem to get in everyone's way!
I still work on the basis the law will give me speed limit + 10% on motorways but strictly adhere to the speed limit for the many 'average speed limits' we have, and don't speed away from the motorway. I believe in the UK any police speed cameras must be visible by the motorist i.e. they're not allowed to hide in bushes for entrapment. It's bad enough they have lots of 'plain clothes' police cars on the M61 ::)
If your cruise control is somehow faulty and you get booked you cannot use the cruise control defect as a defence.
What makes me laugh are the twits who, in an average speed control area, gallop past everyone and then slam their brakes on to go past the cameras. I don't think they've quite grasped the maths :no:
Can't wait to drive you to TINGS next year! :worried:
Quote from: Bealman on August 19, 2018, 10:38:11 AM
Can't wait to drive you to TINGS next year! :worried:
You drive me round the bend every day, George :P ;)
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 19, 2018, 10:35:19 AM
I'm probably going to court disaster here but when working as a salesman (all mouth & motorway) I used to drive on motorways at a steady 80mph and have never received a ticket in more than 400,000 miles. Even these days if you do less than 80 you seem to get in everyone's way!
I still work on the basis the law will give me speed limit + 10% on motorways but strictly adhere to the speed limit for the many 'average speed limits' we have, and don't speed away from the motorway. I believe in the UK any police speed cameras must be visible by the motorist i.e. they're not allowed to hide in bushes for entrapment. It's bad enough they have lots of 'plain clothes' police cars on the M61 ::)
If your cruise control is somehow faulty and you get booked you cannot use the cruise control defect as a defence.
What makes me laugh are the twits who, in an average speed control area, gallop past everyone and then slam their brakes on to go past the cameras. I don't think they've quite grasped the maths :no:
Like that section outside of Southport Mick -everytime I use it on goes the cruise control at 50mph -and I guarantee at least two cars will blast past after the narrow section at Mere Brow . The girl last week was on her phone as she went blazing past -then I think it dawned on her and the car suddenly developed at 30mph limit causing cars swerving everywhere round her ! The clue is there -AVERAGE !! Mind you I got caught 3 years ago in Wales doing 70mph in a tranny van -my last day for that company too ! Took the escape points course -and the fee that goes with it ! :dunce:
This is always a difficult subject but I'll add my thoughts.
Firstly, I am a retired driver trainer teaching people to drive, teaching on driver awareness courses, driver improvement courses and speed awareness courses (on behalf of the police) and fleet driver training (driver improvement for professional drivers) as well as teaching others to be driving trainers.
My driving qualifications have elapsed but was an IAM member and held the highest driving qualifications available to civilians in ROSPA at Gold level and DIAmond Adv Special Award.
Having said all of that, I am not the perfect driver and neither is anyone else.
Speed limits are a VERY poorly trained and oft misunderstood area.
I frequently took driving offenders out to improve their knowledge and driving ability in twos or threes. As we were driving around I would ask them , at frequent intervals, to tell me the speed limit. I'd usually get this response..."oh it's 30 here, no wait, 40,no - it's national limit - that's 70 right, oh or is it 60 pr even 50".
So, in a short stretch 3 people would disagree totally.
This is all down to people being trained (usually at 17) to pass the test (on roads they would eventually know well) rather than being trained to drive.
Very few drivers, if questioned, can explain with any certainty what the speed limit is at any one time. It is easy (once you know) but people are simply not supplied with the knowledge right at the beginning of their initial driver training.
It's nobodys failt, except maybe the system (but that's a topic for discussion elsewhere). I remember all to well at 17, I didn't care about the rules - I just wanted that pass certificate which allowed me to get on the road.
I can elaborate on the visual identifiers of speed limits but it's easier done verbally rather than in writing but if people want, I'll give it a go.
Finally, the official line is that the limit is the limit. There is no disgretion. But...it is right to conclude that tolerances are allowed (within reason). It would be virtually impossible to implement a zero tolerance level.
Hope that helps, it's not meant to be a lecture but just a statement of the facts as I see them.
It's not a lecture, buddy, rather a measured and educational reply. :beers:
However, as I guy who's seriously thinking about coming back and driving next year, nobody has addressed my query!
How come I drive your motorways there at max, yet huge trucks and cars fly past me on what is obviously illegal?
QuoteMind you I got caught 3 years ago in Wales doing 70mph in a tranny van
wonder how many van drivers are aware that the speed limit is reduced to 60 on a dual carriage way not 70 and 50,not 60 on a single carriage way.
Quote from: Bealman on August 19, 2018, 12:15:40 PMHow come I drive your motorways there at max, yet huge trucks and cars fly past me on what is obviously illegal?
Because there are some people who drive, that
1. think they are above the law
2. Have zero regard for anyone else on the road
3. Arrogant
4. Just plain stupid
Quote from: Bealman on August 19, 2018, 12:15:40 PM
How come I drive your motorways there at max, yet huge trucks and cars fly past me on what is obviously illegal?
Lack of traffic cops? Or lack of cops in general, as I've not seen one in my town since time immemorial!
Quote from: Bealman on August 19, 2018, 12:15:40 PM
How come I drive your motorways there at max, yet huge trucks and cars fly past me on what is obviously illegal?
Try changing your question to this:
How come I pay at the checkout, yet other people seem to shoplift stuff and get away with it?People break the speed limit all the time. Some get caught, some don't. When they are caught for something like speeding, there's a penalty, and on top of that they're a hazard and demonstrably cause many serious accidents.
In fairness, a lot of speeding tickets are handed out days after the event, using things like license plate technology. So just because you see somebody doing 120 mph on the motorway doesn't mean those people aren't going to be caught and penalised some days later.
Cheers, NeMo
Lack of political will.
Essentially, there are many laws enacted in this country that are unenforcable, because the democratic will of the people will reject anyone who tries to enforce them.
In this day and age, it would very very easy, and not very expensive, to put a speed camera atop every lamp post, the enforce an absolute zero tolerance approach to the limits.
But anyone who did that would lose power at the next possible opportunity, and never see it again.
The reason the police can't hide behind bushes, and speed cameras have to be painted yellow is because of a massive popular outcry at the income being generated by the fines.
Which opens another can of worms, and has included the P word, but there you go!
What's the best way to stay within the speed limit?
I have just returned from visiting my daughter, only 5 miles away but because I started this topic I thought I would try to stay within the varying speed limits along the route, I might add I do try to keep within the limits anyway but on this occasion pay particular attention. My car has a speed limiter fitted so I thought I would use this but to set the speed I need to press a button so need to keep looking down to see and set the speed, one press increases the speed by 1 mph, a constant press and the speed increases rapidly. My thoughts now are the number of times I need to take my eyes off the road. My wife's car has no speed control so when I drive that I need to keep looking at the speedo.
God forbid you ever get caught speeding in France, a work colleague of mine was "escorted" to the nearest ATM to pay an on the spot fine. They don't mess about. ;)
Quote from: Bealman on August 19, 2018, 12:15:40 PM
However, as I guy who's seriously thinking about coming back and driving next year, nobody has addressed my query!
How come I drive your motorways there at max, yet huge trucks and cars fly past me on what is obviously illegal?
I can only think you're driving at about 50mph. My knowledge may be wrong but trucks/lorries used to be limited on their tacographs to 56mph and coaches to 70mph(?).
As I said previously, as far as cars go, if you're doing 80mph on a motorway you are just in the way and become a mobile chicane.
To set my cruise control I have to press 2 buttons but, to be honest, it takes less time than performing a rear view mirror check
if the police or government were really concerned about this then every car on the road would not be able to exceed 70 miles per hour , the fact this doesn't happen tells you all you need to know ,
1 its not really an issue,
2 they can catch you speeding and fine you , its always about the money , nothing more nothing less.
had a relative once always going on about people speeding and how bad it was people should be ashamed they should be more considerate etc etc
then they got a speeding ticket never heard a another thing other than its not fair , i did laugh
around my way you never see the speed camera vans (sorry safety camera) outside schools or busy places , but you always find them out in the middle of nowhere just where the limit changes.
on the road out side my own house the highest recorded speed was 82mph in a 30 limit , so when the locals asked for some kind of measure to reduce the fast driving the council recorded the cars speed near a junction and said the speeds on average were too low for the investment and that there was not enough crashes which caused serous injury. to be fair we did get a silly sign that shows happy face at 30 and and a unhappy face at 31 , certainty makes me sleep better a night.
Just my 3 pence worth.......
Speed does not necessarily kill, but speed differential can and does. That differential can be minor, say 2 or 3 mph faster or slower than the driver in front and behind, or major, say 70mph faster than that stationary vehicle or concrete wall in front of you.
As a youth ( I'm not sure exactly when my 'youth' ended) I rode and drove motorised vehicles with what can best be described as occasional reckless abandon. On one of those occasions I was the one travelling at 70mph faster than the (almost) stationary lorry that pulled out in front of me. As I was on a motorcycle on a wet road the inevitable collision left me seriously injured and without a clear head for many a month. But I was very young then and my mortality was not uppermost in my mind even after this close encounter with the after-life, so it was not long before reckless abandon held sway once again.
But as the years passed and life bought it's rewards, my attitude mellowed until the careful but, I hope, good driver of today began to appear.
And now I'm the perfect driver! Well, maybe not, eh? But I do try to stick to the law most of the time. I did get caught out a couple of years back, doing 34 in a 30 zone, and attended the proffered course of instruction. As @port perran (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=230) has already commented, views on speeding varied amongst those supposedly qualified drivers attending, and many got a lot wrong. Few, for instance, could correctly identify the limits on the various stretches of dual carriageway they were shown.
Nowadays I do try to keep within the limits, not always successfully. Even that much appreciated 'cruise control' has its problems in that regard, as for instance when my little VW Golf reacts to gravity on that long stretch of M6 descending from Shap. And I know I can't fully rely on my speedometer to tell me the truth, as witnessed by those flashing speed signs that supposedly tell me how fast I'm travelling through such-and-such village. On one journey recently I passed five such signs in 30mph zones, and as I dutifully approached them all with exactly 30mph registering on my car's dashboard, I was flashingly advised I was doing 27mph, 34mph, 29mph, 26mph, and, unbelievably, 30mph!
And my SatNav is no help either. It is usually showing that I'm travelling between 3mph and 5mph slower than the speedometer reading on the dashboard.
So I drive with all this knowledge of what is and what isn't true, and try to leave a margin of error in my favour. Not that the driver behind me appreciates that fact as he attempts to drive into my back seat because, apparently, his/her speedometer and/or SatNav is calibrated differently to mine (what other reason could there be for them getting so close? ::) )
And I try to remember what my Driving Instructor tried so hard to drum into me all those years ago: "It's a limit, not a target."
But I'm a human in an insulated well balanced smooth running vehicle, isolated from the elements and reality, and sometimes, just sometimes mind you :) , the concentration wavers, the music on the radio is at a faster tempo, or maybe I'm just tired, and the little needle drifts around the dial a little further than it should.
Most of the time though I concentrate on trying to stick within the limits because I don't want to be responsible for hurting myself or another human being, and because, as a pensioner, fines and higher insurance premiums generated by my own stupidity are things I try to avoid!
And after all, what's the rush?
One point, if you are driving at an indicated 70mph, your speed, may be, just 60.215mph, as speedo's are allowed to show, down to your speed -10 percent -2.485mph.
They are not allowed to show 70.00000000000000000001mph
Most people now have navigators, these show if locked on to several satellites, and doing a reasonably constant speed a much more accurate speed. So those may passing you may be under the limit.
Meantime I've not normally gone over the limit ever. Although I did get an sp 30, 43 years ago, going down a hill into a speed limit of 30mph that was just a couple of hundred yards long before a very steep hill. Being in an ancient Anglia van I let it creep over the limit and a copper was hiding behind a big tree with a speed gun.
I pointed this out in my response to the speeding notice, and got a fine of £10..
Not only do we have hidden speed cameras here in Spain but also the police helicopters have them fitted as well so they can do you from the air. The first thing you know is the letter in the post! >:D
And no, so far haven't been got from the air only once many years ago on a fixed speed camera on the way to see my brother who lives the other side of Malaga. Most of the motorway is either 120 or 100 km/hr but there is a short stretch that goes down to 80 km/hr and I didn't notice it. :doh:
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 19, 2018, 02:44:46 PMAs I said previously, as far as cars go, if you're doing 80mph on a motorway you are just in the way and become a mobile chicane.
TBH if I'm going along a motorway at or slightly above 70 and I'm in the way, even in the inside lane, then tough.
Unlike a lot of loonies on the road I try to allow enough time to get to my destination and therefore
a) I drive more economically and
b) I arrive in a less frazzled state than if I had to rush coz I knew I was running late
The other day, after being overtaken by another idiot, I was half thinking of having a sticker made up to put on the back of the car which reads
"I'm doing the speed limit to save you from getting a ticket"
but someone from officialdom would probably object.
Perhaps I'll get a caravan instead, drive everwhere at 10mph below the posted limit and consider it a public service!
Quote from: Yet_Another on August 19, 2018, 01:53:57 PM
The reason the police can't hide behind bushes, and speed cameras have to be painted yellow is because of a massive popular outcry at the income being generated by the fines.
Hi
There is a new speed camera on one of the approaches to Lincoln.
Heading into Lincoln it's quite obvious but if you are leaving then it is obscured by a large tree. No idea which direction it works in but as the old camera is still there I think it might be as you are leaving.
Cheers
Paul
One serious problem about car driving is that it can be an almost autonomous activity, so not much concentration needed, when things are running normally. When I started driving the Transport and Road Research laboratory carried out a detailed driver study. It categorised drivers as associated/dissociated and active/passive. Associated meant they were concentrating. The two most hazardous combinations were "dissociated/active" and "dissociated/passive". The latter was somebody driving almost as if asleep, and the former was somone making a lot of manoeuvres but not thinking about their actions.
In over 53 years of driving I have two SP30s to my name, both due to lack of concentration. I also have one accident - a head-on collision in a multi-storey car park while I was stationary. The other driver was driving fast and against the indicated traffic flow. I saw him but he did not see me or my dipped headlights.
If someone tailgates me on the motorway, and the lane to my left is occupied so I cannot move into it, I comfort myself with the knowledge that by doubling the distance from the car in front I can do the thinking and gentle braking bit for both of us. At 70mph a vehicle covers 100 feet in one second, so 30 feet of the typical tailgater gives her/him about one third of a second to react after he sees my brake lights.
I do not have a problem with people driving over the speed limit provided they are concentrating on driving the vehicle safely. If the law says otherwise that is risk they have accepted but they will know what the legal limit is.
Over the past few days I have been on a coach travelling in the UK, France and Belgium. It is limited to 100 kph on Motorways by the on board system. I have generally had a perfect view of the drivers' cab area and I have been impressed by the way they perform. They are concentrating on their driving, no mobile phone, no loud music, no chit-chat with the off-duty driver, and a line of sight navigation display. I wish that people driving 1 or 2 tonnes of car could do the same. Speed on its own does not kill, but in the wrong place at the wrong time it could be fatal.
Another thing that can throw off the speedo is the wheel/tyre combination as the rolling diameter can change the "measured" speed some. I have that experience with a Mazda Miata that came with the (optional) larger wheels and lower profile tyres which have a rolling diameter a bit smaller than the standard setup. As a result, the speedo over-registers quite significantly (indicated 29 mph is actually 25mph).
I used to live in Pennsylvania and commute to New Jersey which presented two different sets of challenges:
In PA, only the state police and the Philadelphia and Pittsburgh police were authorised to use radar for speeding (may have changed since then), so I used to see plenty of NJ cars being pulled over in PA and thoroughly confused as to why their radar detectors had not gone off. One road in particular had some subtle measured distance lines marked on the downhill section that was 3/4 mile from another crest where the local cop would sit in his cruiser in the shade of a large oak tree with a set of HUGE binoculars and a stopwatch.
In NJ, a speeding ticket would not be outrageous to pay (at the time it was something like USD63), but if you were insured in NJ your car insurance would go up by USD1,000 for the next 2 years. As a result, the local NJ cops close to the border with PA would make it a point to only ticket out-of-state drivers as they knew they would not fight the ticket in court...if you were a NJ driver you'd get a warning unless you were doing something really dumb. Of course, that only applied to the local cops and the state troopers would ticket everyone, which was particularly risky on one road close to the border as the state troopers used it as a training road...I once had a person pass me at an indicated 2 mph over the limit get pulled over by a state trooper in training who was going in the opposite direction and hung a u-turn across the median to catch them (shades of Starsky and Hutch) throwing up a shower of mud and grass in the process.
Jon
Quote from: Jon898 on August 19, 2018, 07:50:29 PM
I used to live in Pennsylvania and commute to New Jersey which presented two different sets of challenges:
Jon
My overwhelming memory of travelling regularly between Philly and Atlantic City, NJ in the early 1990s was that there were loads of old NJ police left on the median. Until you got close telling whether they had live occupants or not was not going to be possible. Seemed to be an effective deterrent except for trucks and buses with higher seating positions and better route kniwledge. :-)
Quote from: daffy on August 19, 2018, 04:56:56 PM
Speed does not necessarily kill, but speed differential can and does. That differential can be minor, say 2 or 3 mph faster or slower than the driver in front and behind, or major, say 70mph faster than that stationary vehicle or concrete wall in front of you.
I certainly agree with that - rather than absolute speed it is inappropriate speed (either high or low) and the resulting differential to others that causes danger. The only (thankfully) collision I have actually witnessed on a Motorway was when one car doing 60-65 swung straight from lane 1 to lane 3 to go round another doing 50ish in the middle lane and was hit from the rear by a third vehicle doing 75+ in lane 3...
The subsequent investigation apportioned blame to all three, though personally I thought the primary cause was the inappropriately low speed and lane choice of the middle lane hogger.
Often think the Peugeot doing 50 in the middle lane
(and it is usually a Peugeot or a Kia) is more of a danger to others than the Audi/BMW doing 80 in lane 3...
High school physics. Conservation of momentum. Momentum:
p = mv
Where m = mass in kg, v = velocity in m/s, p = momentum in kgms-1.
Damage and injuries in collisions are the result of sudden changes in momentum. A loaded coal train could be travelling very slow, so v in the equation is low. However, m is a huge value, so the train has huge momentum.
Likewise, in a fast moving car, m is nowhere near the value of a train, however, v is a large quantity. Hence big momentum again.
More High School physics :
Inertia - Inertia is the resistance of any physical object to any change in its position and state of motion. This includes changes to the object's speed, direction, or state of rest. Inertia is also defined as the tendency of objects to keep moving in a straight line at a constant velocity.
But when it comes to motoring, another, simpler, definition is frequently also at play:
Inertia - a tendency to do nothing or to remain unchanged.
This latter definition describes the mental state of many drivers on the roads these days who are apparently oblivious to the inherent dangers of driving, and are content to sit, often in the middle lane of a motorway, or sometimes three inches from the vehicle in front, in a seeming state of trance as they hurtle along, unaware that they are in fact in charge of a potentially lethal weapon.
So we have the new probability equation: Accident = momentum x Pillock acting under inertia with inertia.
That's funny, but really it's not. :thumbsup:
Quote from: PLD on August 19, 2018, 09:33:41 PM
Often think the Peugeot doing 50 in the middle lane (and it is usually a Peugeot or a Kia) is more of a danger to others than the Audi/BMW doing 80 in lane 3...
Please let's not get into stereotyping the cars/drivers as I'd end up infuriating a lot of people :D
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 20, 2018, 09:51:00 AM
Please let's not get into stereotyping the cars/drivers as I'd end up infuriating a lot of people :D
Absolutely.
This is a fascinating read:
https://www.trafficsafetystore.com/blog/who-causes-accidents/ (https://www.trafficsafetystore.com/blog/who-causes-accidents/)
It's American, but the basic facts probably hold true for the UK. Men cause more accidents than women; teens and pensioners cause the most; married men cause fewer accidents than single men; people with risky careers have higher insurance premiums than people in more staid occupations; the more educated you are, the lower your premiums; and perhaps most controversial, cyclists cause as many accidents as motorists!
Cheers, NeMo
I drove from South Bucks to Leicester on Saturday (on the way to Trent Bridge for the Cricket :'( ) It is more than annoying that on that journey I made the following observations...
Police vehicles seen - 0
Speed Cameras seen - dozens - especially these new ones fixed to the side of the road on motorway gantries, slimline and sneaky...
Average Speed restrictions - 2 of several miles
Cars travelling in lane 2 of 3 or lane 3 of 4 - TOO B :censored: Y MANY it is a joke that they have these revenue making speed cameras and yet the most dangerous thing on the journey were moving chicanes of zomboid drivers - I didn't see anyone on a phone which is a first as usually see several on a normal 30 min commute.
As others have said it is the 65mph lane hogger that casues the main issue on the motorways, keep left seems beyond their understanding even when vehicles pass them and cross three lanes to move back left.
Another problem is the road infrastructure, Motorways, Dual Carriageways, A and B roads are not designed or capable of handling the road traffic we have now.
Motorways and Dual Carriageways were never "future proofed", how the designers never thought that traffic would increase baffles me.
More traffic = more lunatics driving at warp speed =more accidents
Some of the worst speeders I see are those who know their motorway exit is coming up but still sit in lane 2 or 3 and then speed up to make a last minute dash to get off at that junction. It seems a few extra seconds on their journey by getting in lane 1 about a mile from the junction is just too much so they create absolute chaos in their wake.
I dare say there are a lot of motorists out there who've never been in an accident but have caused many.
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 20, 2018, 11:40:22 AM
Some of the worst speeders I see are those who know their motorway exit is coming up but still sit in lane 2 or 3 and then speed up to make a last minute dash to get off at that junction. It seems a few extra seconds on their journey by getting in lane 1 about a mile from the junction is just too much so they create absolute chaos in their wake.
I dare say there are a lot of motorists out there who've never been in an accident but have caused many.
to an extent, I agree, but it is in part caused and exacerbated by those who have no idea what a slip road is for and slow down to B-road speeds a mile or more before the junction... That inappropriately
slow speed causing the differential to traffic flowing at the normal 70 again...
QuoteYes it is possible, many drivers do so. You just need to press lighter with your left foot. By doing so you'll find that your car doesn't travel so fast.
Right foot?
QuoteThe revenue they generate is only because motorists think they are above the law. If motorists didn't break the law by....
Insert any law breaking such as dangerous driving, using a phone, not wearing a seatbelt - NONE of which speed cameras address as they only address ONE aspect of the dangers on the road - I agree if you speed you accept the consequences but there is no parity in the way the road law is being balanced amongst users.
Quote from: PLD on August 19, 2018, 09:33:41 PM
The only (thankfully) collision I have actually witnessed on a Motorway was when one car doing 60-65 swung straight from lane 1 to lane 3 to go round another doing 50ish in the middle lane and was hit from the rear by a third vehicle doing 75+ in lane 3...
Thankfully in oz we don't have to do a lane dance to pass as we can pass on either side in any lane. Found the UK pass-only-on-right a bit of a pain on the odd occasion.
Quote from: Lindi on August 20, 2018, 12:55:38 PM
The revenue they generate is only because motorists think they are above the law. If motorists didn't break the law by speeding then the speed cameras wouldn't make any money. If they didn't make any money the revenue would have to come from somewhere else, probably taxation (which means I would have to pay more).
As many motorists still think it is Ok to speed maybe they should increase the fines so that the financial punishment is higher to see if this has an effect.
To be fair they did increase the fines last year(?), to be a proportion of weekly income up to £1500 or something. Switerzland has unlimited fines proportional to the magnitude of the offence and the offender's income, which seems eminently more sensible. It does mean you get stories like this: Swedish man faces £650,000 fine for doing 180mph on Swiss motorway (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/7939058/Swedish-motorist-facing-worlds-biggest-speeding-fine.html), which I'm all for. Boosts the state coffers nicely!
For me speed cameras should be there to increase safety. Hiding them behind trees does the opposite, because people see them at the last minute and slam on the brakes (invariably even if they weren't actually speeding, because people are terrible at knowing exactly how fast they're going).
It's all very well saying "ah yes, but just don't speed", but actually people don't tend to slavishly look at their speedo, rightly so. Furthermore the car you're driving and the road itself can totally skew your perception of speed. There's a Roman road near me, which unsurprisingly is rather straight. It goes from a long section of NSL down to 30, but obviously is still totally straight, which means 30 feels incredibly slow, frankly. Driving it last week in my wife's car I found myself going slower than I usually do, despite it feeling quicker.
I will also tend to drive quicker at 2am than at 5pm, even given a totally clear road. To me it's madness that you have the same totally arbitrary limits on a deserted motorway as one packed with rush hour traffic, although I accept a truly variable solution would simply introduce new problems.
Quote from: Lindi on August 20, 2018, 01:17:14 PM
So if they increased the fines it would be able to pay for more traffic police to enforce other offences such as using mobile phones
You think so? Next you'll be telling me they spend our road tax on the roads :D
But that's an entirely different can of worms.
Nah, that's an easy one, no one's paid road tax since 1937. VED goes into the 'pot' and roads are paid for from general taxation or council tax. Worms all back in can. Obviously that doesn't help the morons who want to claim a right to the road because they pay "road tax", but it doesn't make them less wrong!
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 20, 2018, 09:51:00 AM
Please let's not get into stereotyping .........
Stereotyping? :hmmm:
I think you have hit the nail on the head here NPN. Listening to the vehicle's
stereo and
typing on phonepads is probably to blame more than the speeding such activities could inadvertently ::) lead to. Especially when these activities are carried out in tandem. :)
:D
I don't think tandems cause many crashes, you don't see them that often, and they certainly don't tend to speed.
One thing I have noticed since getting the van ( Vauxhall Combo ) small van is people will do anything to not be behind you they'll cut up others not to be 'stuck' behind you. I personally don't like sitting behind trucks or vans as I like to be able to see a least the road infront and other drivers brake lights incase of issues ahead on the road when in a normal car, Better hazard awareness.
On the way back from Cardiff to Newcastle the amount of people doing well over 80mph is ridiculous, Slow down for the gantry's then accelerate as hard as possible it seems.
Maybe it's just me getting 812miles to a £65 tank fill but I'm happy doing 65mph lol. Van likes it if that makes sense.
Quotealthough I accept a truly variable solution would simply introduce new problems.
we already have variable speed limits on large sections of motorways and they seem to mostly work,apart from when your suddenly forced down to 20 from 70 without any pre warning or staggered speed reduction.
Quote from: themadhippy on August 20, 2018, 04:03:06 PM
Quotealthough I accept a truly variable solution would simply introduce new problems.
we already have variable speed limits on large sections of motorways and they seem to mostly work,apart from when your suddenly forced down to 20 from 70 without any pre warning or staggered speed reduction.
I agree the variable ones on the M6 I believe are odd to say the least and half the traffic don't use the hard shoulder when shows lane available. Can go like you said from 60 to 40 then to 50 within three gantry's just causes more harm than good I think happens every time I go to Cardiff :beers:
Hence saying "truly" variable - varying based on traffic volume is one thing, and works perfectly well. They've been on the M25 for 15+ years.
Adding in other dimensions like the vehicle, weather, time of day and so on complicates it immeasurably. So I may feel that 80 (or even quicker) is perfectly reasonable in my modern car at 2am on a summer evening, but I wouldn't expect a 'tailored' speed limit to account for this, instead we just have 70, which was chosen arbitrarily in 1965 for a 4-month trial period, and never revoked. I also accept this is the law, and whilst I've never been stopped for speeding I would be wholly gracious should it happen.
Driving at any speed isn't inherently unsafe as has been said. I sure as hell feel better doing 80 in my car than I would doing 70 legally in anything from 1965! If they increased the limit to 80 then driving at 80 wouldn't be any safer, or indeed any less safe!
Not sure I subscribe to that idea. I imagine a few would still go even faster, specifically deriving a thrill from breaking the law, but I'd wager the overwhelming majority of people who speeed don't believe they're above the law, rather that they're comfortable at 75mph, and don't see the law, with the low likelihood of getting caught, as much of a disincentive. They're not driving at x mph above the speed limit specifically.
I'm not saying it's right, and maybe we should be dishing out on the spot fines of £5000 for people doing 1mph over the limit or stick 'em in debtors prisons, but that's pretty unlikely. Our roads are statistically very safe, and I'd far rather see more clamping down on genuinely dangerous activities like tailgating, weaving and using mobile phones long before I'd crack down on speeding.
Now I may be wrong but I believe there are countries, such as Portugal, where there are minimum speed limits on certain roads and they are enforced. Seem like a good idea??
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 20, 2018, 09:38:22 PM
Now I may be wrong but I believe there are countries, such as Portugal, where there are minimum speed limits on certain roads and they are enforced. Seem like a good idea??
There already is a minimum speed on UK motorways of 30mph and vehicles not capable of maintaining that speed are specifically prohibited from entering the motorway. The oft stated "Lorries and buses are not allowed in the third lane" is also slightly incorrect... They aren't specifically banned, but vehicles not capable of maintaining 70mph are; and EU directives require that they have governors fitted restricting them to 110/100kph for buses & 90kph for HGVs it is that which indirectly stops them using the third lane.
Quote from: PLD on August 20, 2018, 09:52:43 PM
There already is a minimum speed on UK motorways of 30mph
Not according to the Highway Code - there is no mention of a minimum speed limit, just the prohibition of certain types of slow moving vehicles etc.
@Lindi (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6298), yep - you sometimes find the blue minimum speed signs in constricted routes such as tunnels where there is a need to keep the traffic flowing in case there are emergency vehicles trying to get through etc.
Some interesting stats in amongst all this...............
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/drivers-face-100-fine-going-205338937.html
I definitely think minimum speed limits should be enforced - it's often more dangerous to drive slowly, admittedly because it tends to encourage others to perform poor overtaking manoeuvres.
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 20, 2018, 10:15:03 PM
Some interesting stats in amongst all this...............
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/drivers-face-100-fine-going-205338937.html
It's this article that prompted my initial topic.
How about artics overtaking in the middle lane for miles?
Quote from: Lindi on August 20, 2018, 10:03:30 PM
Quote from: PLD on August 20, 2018, 09:52:43 PM
There already is a minimum speed on UK motorways of 30mph
No there is not. If there was you would see a sign shown above as you join the motorway
It is certainly true that you no longer generally see the old style sign listing all the prohibited traffics as per below (there are a few left, mostly at remote junctions - last I recall seeing was on the Northern Ireland M2) - it is assumed to be implicit in standard motorway symbol...
(https://newsway.co.uk/safegap/img/slip-road-sign-min.png)
Do you also assume in the absence of a sign as above that Pedestrians, Animals and Pedal Cycles are also no longer prohibited on motorways?? If so, please do share the video of your next horse ride along the M1.
Quote from: Lindi on August 20, 2018, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: PLD on August 20, 2018, 09:52:43 PM
The oft stated "Lorries and buses are not allowed in the third lane" is also slightly incorrect... They aren't specifically banned, but vehicles not capable of maintaining 70mph are;
This is also not correct.
You say not correct, then go on to CONFIRM it is correct in your own words...
Quote from: Lindi on August 20, 2018, 10:16:32 PM
The right-hand lane of a motorway with three or more lanes MUST NOT be used (except in prescribed circumstances) if you are driving
- a goods vehicle with a maximum laden weight exceeding 3.5 tonnes but not exceeding 7.5 tonnes, which is required to be fitted with a speed limiter
- a passenger vehicle with a maximum laden weight not exceeding 7.5 tonnes which is constructed or adapted to carry more than eight seated passengers in addition to the driver, which is required to be fitted with a speed limiter
It is the fitment of the limiter that initiates the restriction...
Quote from: Lindi on August 21, 2018, 12:10:00 AM
As regards signs then no I don't expect to see prohibited vehicles on the motorway and no sign is required. It is part of the highway code Rule 253 which states
Prohibited vehicles. Motorways MUST NOT be used by pedestrians, holders of provisional motorcycle or car licences, riders of motorcycles under 50 cc, cyclists, horse riders, certain slow-moving vehicles and those carrying oversized loads (except by special permission), agricultural vehicles, and powered wheelchairs/powered mobility scooters (see Rules 36 to 46 inclusive).[/list]
Regarding your assertion that there is a minimum speed for a motorway, which there is no rule within the highway code, therefore a sign would be required on joining the motorway
:headbutt: :headbutt:
As per the sign pictured above, in the past when restrictions
were specifically listed at the entry to the motorway it clearly stated (UNDER 30 MPH) as the criteria for a Slow Vehicle... You confirm that "Slow Vehicle" rule still applies. So, if it is not 30mph, can you provide evidence of what the criteria now is for a slow vehicle and when it was changed??
QuoteMinimum speed limits are rare in the UK, but they do exist in places where going too slowly can cause increased congestion or high risk of a crash, such as in tunnels.
They're marked by a blue, circular sign containing the minimum speed limit, while the end of a minimum speed limit is signalled by the same sign with a red line through it.
Although there isn't an official minimum speed limit on most motorways, travelling too slowly can be considered dangerous and you might attract the attention of the police.
In this case, you'd usually be let off after a verbal warning, but you could be prosecuted for careless driving.
source rac
Quote
Sorry He's Right, Your wrong.
See Highway Code Rules 234 / 235 re this, There is only the Mention of a Maximum and not a minimum.
The speed your friend drives at is actually what is generally considered to be a suitable Patrol speed on the Motorway, as everyone has to pass you and you can give them the once over, and the HGV's can also pass without it taking 3 miles for the overtake.
source policeuk
Quotea passenger vehicle with a maximum laden weight exceeding 7.5 tonnes constructed or adapted to carry more than eight seated passengers in addition to the driver
Now that is interesting,or are national express coaches exempt from this rule as they can often be spoted in the outside lane doing 70+
Clarity here on UK speed limits:
https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits (https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits)
Note the limits vary with regard to vehicle lengths and weights.
As for minimum speed limits, as far as I am aware, and as stated on many websites, the Republic of Ireland does have a 30mph minimum on motorways, but as stated by Lindi et al, there is no minimum on U.K. motorways, though driving at a slow speed likely to cause a danger to others can lead to a penalty, though instances of this actually being enforced are rare.
For reference, here is a link to a PDF version of the current Highway Code, the go-to oracle for road rules:
http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/uploads/3/2/9/2/3292309/the-official-highway-code-with-annexes-uk-en-12-04.pdf (http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/uploads/3/2/9/2/3292309/the-official-highway-code-with-annexes-uk-en-12-04.pdf)
I stand to be corrected @daffy (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5634), but I do not believe there are any roads in the Republic that have a minimum speed limit.
I stand to be corrected @daffy (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5634), but I do not believe there are any roads in the Republic that have a minimum speed limit.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/roads_and_safety/road_traffic_speed_limits_in_ireland.html (http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/roads_and_safety/road_traffic_speed_limits_in_ireland.html)
gives information about road and vehicle speed limits. I was going to post a link to the Road Safety Authority information, but it is a long PDF.
Further to the above, I have found the following -
""Slow vehicles(less than 50 km/h or 31 mph)" are not allowed by motorway regulations in Ireland. Other regulations are:
Learner drivers
Invalid carriages
Pedestrians
Pedal-cycles
Vehicles under 50cc
Vehicles without pneumatic tyres
Animals"
As was pointed out in the bit that I read, a vehicle has to be capable of doing 50kph, there is nothing to say it has to do 50kph, although of course we are then getting into the realms of inconsiderate driving etc., if somebody is doing those sorts of speed on a motorway!
Happy to be corrected David. :thumbsup:
The minimum in RofE was just one of those 'facts' I had picked up years ago and seemed to be confirmed on various websites I checked. However, it looks like it might be another one of those cases of misinformation that abound on t'Internet. As the man in the country in question, I bow to your local knowledge. :thumbsup:
Rule 253
Prohibited vehicles. Motorways MUST NOT be used by pedestrians, holders of provisional motorcycle or car licences, riders of motorcycles under 50 cc, cyclists, horse riders, certain slow-moving vehicles and those carrying oversized loads (except by special permission), agricultural vehicles, and powered wheelchairs/powered mobility scooters (see Rules 36 to 46 inclusive).
From 4 June 2018 provisional licence holders may drive on the motorway if they are accompanied by an approved driving instructor and are driving a car displaying red L plates (D plates in Wales), that's fitted with dual controls.
There is no set limit of what is slow but I guess they leave it open to interpretation by the Police (if they are ever on the Mway) so that say someone doing 35 with HGVs and all overtaking or causing tailbacks may have the suggestion of using A roads made to them?
Regarding France that was quoted earlier they not only have 130k/80mph as the motorway speed they also have 90k/56mph in the WET.
110kph in the wet on the autoroutes.
My understanding is that it's based on precipitation falling from the sky too, so it's still 130kph when the road is wet, but it's not raining, yet it's 110 when the road is dry but it's spitting.
Far too ambiguous for my liking!
Which ever way you look at it and try to decipher the rules and regulations just remember one thing, it's a speed limit, not a target.
Quote from: Lindi on August 21, 2018, 10:51:52 AM
Quote from: bob lawrence on August 20, 2018, 10:36:14 PM
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 20, 2018, 10:15:03 PM
Some interesting stats in amongst all this...............
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/drivers-face-100-fine-going-205338937.html
It's this article that prompted my initial topic.
How about artics overtaking in the middle lane for miles?
On your second point there is no issue with artics using any lane except the right most lane where there are three otr more lanes. Although it may seem like you are going very slow behind one the actual time difference in your arrival time at your destination is minimal. If you was travelling at 70mph and then had to reduce your speed to 56 mph for say 5 miles then you would arrive at your destination 75 seconds later. If the arctic was doing only 40 mph then the delay would be 150 seconds. In my opinion neither are a big deal. Of course if you was speeding before you had to slow down behind the artic then the delay would be greater.
Hi
You make a valid point but its never just one that does it.
Cheers
Paul
This in the news today...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45269474 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45269474)
Love the guys seemingly philosophical attitude to it all. Or is it simply resignation when up against the faceless ones? :)
But if you are driving in Switzerland, just keep to the speed limits and make sure you don't earn a lot or be wealthy, as fines are based not only on where and when you were speeding, but on your financial status.
This guy paid a high price indeed for doing 137kph in an 80kph area:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/mobile/world/europe/8446545.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/mobile/world/europe/8446545.stm)
Now wouldn't it be nice if that methodology was used everywhere? :hmmm:
Reply #45 for a bigger Swiss fine. It does seem a fairer way of doing things - a £100 fine or whatever you get here is absolutely nothing to some, and pretty devastating to others.
Quote from: njee20 on August 23, 2018, 07:43:59 AM
Reply #45 for a bigger Swiss fine. It does seem a fairer way of doing things - a £100 fine or whatever you get here is absolutely nothing to some, and pretty devastating to others.
Hi
Its no longer £100 in the UK although the government website states it is.
Since April 2017 its based on the excess speed you were doing which is banded A, B and C and a percentage of your weekly income 50% Band A, 100% Band B and 150% band C.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: Lindi on August 23, 2018, 10:48:01 AM
Quote from: PaulCheffus on August 23, 2018, 10:36:12 AM
Quote from: njee20 on August 23, 2018, 07:43:59 AM
Reply #45 for a bigger Swiss fine. It does seem a fairer way of doing things - a £100 fine or whatever you get here is absolutely nothing to some, and pretty devastating to others.
Hi
Its no longer £100 in the UK although the government website states it is.
Since April 2017 its based on the excess speed you were doing which is banded A, B and C and a percentage of your weekly income 50% Band A, 100% Band B and 150% band C.
Cheers
Paul
Yes it is, unless you are prosecuted in court for speeding. It was the only the sentencing structure for speeding that was changed.
The fixed penalty notice is still £100 and 3 points on your license unless you are eligible to attend a speed awareness course.
Hi
Are you saying that there has been no change to the speeding fine?
What about the new fine structure that was reported to exist after April 2017?
https://www.confused.com/on-the-road/driving-law/speeding-fine-calculator (https://www.confused.com/on-the-road/driving-law/speeding-fine-calculator)
Cheers
Paul
Even using the new fine structure we're still nothing like the Swiss structure, which is effectively unlimited.
i have already posted a reply to this so i will only add my granddad used to say the reason you have politicians is because they are no bloody good at anything else and it doesn't matter however they cut it , with the government its either ban it or tax it ,and if you look at it purely as that ,then speeding is a tax otherwise they would ban it so no cars could do over 70mph period why have cars limited to 155mph when the uk speed limit is 70mph.because every time you go over you pay more tax (and regarding the baker that got caught 30 times doing 30mph instead of 18.5 mph at 3 in the morning how did that improve road safety , it didnt but it swell the coffers of the government . hence above .i wont even go down the road tax route (sorry vehicle excise duty)
Quote from: nobby on August 23, 2018, 12:55:03 PM..... it swell the coffers of the government ....
And long may money flow into those coffers - from whatever source - for out of those coffers come all the things that make a country run.
Quote from: Lindi on August 23, 2018, 07:24:44 PM
Quote from: nobby on August 23, 2018, 12:55:03 PM
then speeding is a tax
NO! It's a fine for breaking the law. Totally optional, if you don't speed then you don't get fined.
Agreed, even by Nobby's post where everything is either taxed or banned then surely speeding is banned, by law... just because it's not done by manufacturers. That's like saying murder isn't banned, they don't make people invincible. :worried:
I haven't lived in the UK for 20 years now and am out of touch with how things are on the roads. When I visit I simply try to go with the flow of the traffic and not be conspicuous driving faster or slower than the bulk of the traffic.
Here in Massachusetts enforcement seems to be patchy and the limits often make no sense--55 mph on a four lane highway for example.
I've been driving for 45 years without a speeding ticket so far.
Enforcement in the UK is equally patchy, and we have our share of odd sections with seemingly unreasonable limits @Cutter (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1988) , but knowing which 'patch' is unmonitored is harder than learning to use a crystal ball.
Going with the flow of traffic here would be fraught with danger of being caught for speeding. Even in 'average speed camera' zones many drivers here will exceed the limit, and it is all too easy to find yourself following the crowd into a speed trap.
My advice would be stick to the limits, not the ambient road speed, to avoid unnecessary pain and the sudden inability to afford new N Gauge trains.
From recent personal experience - no, I didn't get caught for speeding - this advice is especially important should you visit the beautiful county of Cornwall, where limits, fixed cameras, and unmarked police camera cars, are ubiquitous.
Oh go on then, I will get involved...
Never been caught speeding. Emphasis on "caught".
I don't consider myself an "active speeder" (I don't look to speed because I can), but I am 100% certain I have exceeded the limit.
I don't consider myself the perfect driver at all, and every time my work notice board has an advert from the IAM I ponder doing a course, especially as I will shortly be responsible for a tiny person in my car (and when Mrs Skyline is in the passenger seat so is baby already of course).
I don't believe 75mph is inherently dangerous on a motorway. I do believe 65 is inherently dangerous when the heavens have opened and what you actually need is a boat. Add warn tyers, warn brake discs, gaps between cars less than they should be etc and my farther in law is right; "drive to the conditions".
I have seen the aftermath of two crashes recently, one obviously speed related, the other not.
My pet peeves:
1) The motoway message boards. In the last few years I have seen; "Slow Pedestrians in roadway", "Slow Fog patches" (In June at 14:00 without a cloud in the sky) and my personal favourite "20mph, oncoming traffic". NOT ONE of those signs were in any way related to the truth.
What is a driver supposed to do with that last example? I immediately stopped overtaking, made my way to the left hand lane and slowed, whilst scanning the horizon intenty for danger. I was the only car to do so, and of course it was utter rubbish. The message just stopped after three signs. If that isn't crying wolf I don't know what is.
2) Inappropriate use of lanes on a motorway. Yes, the middle lane hogging but also, the "sitting in the third lane when traffic starts to build because that's the fast lane and therefore I will get through traffic faster" mob. This causes tailgating, which causes people to jump on their brakes, which makes traffic worse and in extremes causes the five car shunt I witnessed the aftermath of on the way to TINGS this year.
I can't tell you what cars or the extent of damage as I refuse to be a "rubber necker" (see 3). I know there were 5 stationary vehicles in lane three.
3) Rubber necks. Why? You are in charge of a vehicle, stop looking anywhere other than the required place to drive it safely. Even more so when you have a passenger, if you must know what is going on, they can tell you! This is why I know the second crash I saw recently was obviously the result of speed; Mrs Skyline described a white Merc with most of its panels missing "at the end of a long skid mark, wrapped around a set of traffic lights" at the roundabout.
Skyline2uk
Quote from: Skyline2uk on September 27, 2018, 08:46:04 AM
3) Rubber necks. Why? You are in charge of a vehicle, stop looking anywhere other than the required place to drive it safely. Even more so when you have a passenger, if you must know what is going on, they can tell you!
Skyline2uk
I used to be a regular visitor to Philadelphia where the local radio traffic reports always emphasised the delays on the opposite carriageway to where the collision/breakdown etc had occurred. I always liked the expression they used;- "watch out for the "gawpers" tailback near........."
This is always going to be a contentious issue. Just watched a thing on the news here about a police car in a chase travelling at 140km/hr hitting a Mercedes and killing a woman at an intersection.
No matter where you are in the world, you drive on the road, you takes your chances.
Likewise, get on a plane, you takes your chances. :beers:
Ahh well here it goes,
I have every licence apart from A (Motorbike) and can driver pretty much anything in addition I am an instructor in CAT C and H vehicles including blue lights qualified so I am more than capable of driving and ensuring I am safe.
But I will admit I am no angel but as I say that I will never do anything that is unsafe so while I may at times be a little to fast I will never tailgate, be aggressive or anything of the sort if the car in front of me is travelling slowly and its not safe to pass I will happily wait until its safe to do so.
All that been said I have noticed the gradual decline in driving standards even people I am teaching are trying to to push the limits when been taught and I have to rein them in, including on numerous occasions kicking them off the driving course as they are unsafe.
But the big question you have to ask is why as driving standards slipping so badly?
1) Driving is no longer seen as a privilege which you have to earn, it is seen as a right because of this standards are slipping as people.
2) The growing use of cars, the more people that driver the higher proportion of dangerous driving.
3) The seemingly reduced presence of traffic cops to catch dangerous drivers, this to me is a bit of a myth having worked with the police a lot. The number of traffic cops has actually hour on hour risen from 20 years ago but with the pure volumes of traffic on the roads there is simply not enough to go around and catch the majority.
4) Life style of the most regular users of the roads - People who rely of using the roads for theirs jobs (salesmen, couriers 2 examples) These jobs like many are becoming more time pressured so they have less time to get from A to B so they do push their luck. (PLEASE NOTE THE EMPLOYMENTS WERE EXAMPLES AND NOT SAYING EVERY SALESMAN OR COURIER IS A LUNATIC)
5) People thinking the laws need to catch up with modern cars - Its true a car made now is safer than a car made in 1975. But the brakes on that 1975 pride and joy someone owns will not brake as well and while the shiny new car will brake from 70 very fast the 45 ton truck behind never will!
All in all standards are slipping as people become arrogant about driving and complacent thinking if their car can do x,y,z then learning the hard way that other cant.
SO how do we prevent dangerous driving? There is no simple answers, putting cameras up on every mile is not realistic and honestly is will only be useful for speed.
What we can do is put the learning points from speed awareness courses into part of classroom learning for new drivers in addition to the theory and practical aspects currently done.
And now the unpopular one I honestly feel that every 5 or tens years every driver should be re accessed may it be by an examiner or a better one would be by using the telematics as people will drive more naturally and if they fail that its back to the drawing board and time to learn again. While people will disagree I have a simple thought to this!
Like driving you have to have a licence to have a gun - If the police think you are unsafe they take the gun licence away and every 5 years they are entitled to review you gun licence and if they think you are unsafe its taken away.
In my eyes a gun and a car are both lethal weapons in the wrong hands, if you don't use a car properly then it only takes a second to kill!
Yet you can take a test once as a teenager and then never be retested for the rest of your life, which frankly is terrifying. I think over 65s (comparatively arbitrary choice) should have mandatory retests every 5 years. Not because they're inherently dangerous, but because the likelihood of the emergence of a condition which could be detrimental to their ability is far greater.
In fact I don't think it would be a bad thing for everyone to have 'refreshers' every so often, say every 10 years. Maybe a 3-strike approach whereby you can't lose your licence by failing a single refresher, but you'd have to re-take within a month or something.
But then all that costs money and time to implement and run.
People definitely see driving as a right though, just look at the comments section of any cycling related article on your chosen news outlet, they're full of mouth breathers talking about "road tax" and how the roads are for cars. Both concepts obviously being total fallacies.
On a related note I got a letter from Surrey Constabulary's finest a couple of weeks ago telling me I'd been caught being a bit naughty by their community speedwatch people on the Roman road I mentioned in post #45! They were just behind the 30 and I was still slowing down, oops. :-[
I once saw a motorway sign that said.. wait for it...
"How can you reduce your carbon footprint"
My first thought was you could reduce yours be turning that message off :smiley-laughing:
Pet peeve... we generally only have 2 lanes on a motorway in Scotland, biggest issue i have is mobile cranes, those big giant yellow things doing 50mph, the problem isn't that its doing 50mph, the problem is it's covered in yellow flashing lights so all the dimwits see this a mile or so off and then all sit in the right lane, remember there are only 2 lanes, for over a mile waiting to get past, leaving the left lane empty. They of course all drive too close and end up having to brake which nearly causes or does cause an accident. I'm convinced if they would just turn those blooming flashing lights off would cure the problem, they don't behave anywhere near that when there is anything else doing 50mph in the left lane
Perhaps we should expand this thread and maybe rename it 'Speeding and road safety'.
Good points well made @acko22 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4166) . :thumbsup: I agree about standards, perceptions of the right to drive, and the need for a periodic retest for all.
This also caught me eye in the news this morning about Graduated driving licences for new drivers:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-45627115 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-45627115)
And at the risk of starting a war, let's have more of those average speed camera zones. Seem to work well in my experience, and at least unlike individual speed cameras the person in front of me doesn't suddenly slow to about 10mph below the legal limit to pass the camera, only to accelerate back to whatever speed they were formerly doing. >:D
The US has graduated licences, although drivers start younger and often drive far larger, more powerful cars than our conventional new drivers.
Seems to make sense to me, quite odd that having undertaken that single test you can go out and buy a huge, fast 4x4 and fill it with all your mates. I'm not sure how it would have helped in the instance there though, surely she'd still have been there, I guess it may have been one fatality and a serious injury instead of 2 and 2, but that seems to be splitting hairs somewhat.
Guys
Let me give a professional HGV driver with30 years experience's view:
Driving standards in the uk are getting worse and now you have to treat everyone else as a complete idiot and have to second guess what they are going to do.They do not know the meaning of lane discipline and carve everyone up that gets in their way Everybody drives around like they haven't got a second to spit and have no regard for other road users
A few years ago they changed the limits that HGVs are allowed to drive at in England and Wales but NOT in Scotland.
40 mph on single carriageways are now 50 mph
50mph dual carriageways are now 60 mph
Motorways are 60 mph .
Most UK trucks have their speeds limited to 53 to 56mph but will go faster (Downhill with a following wind !!!).
In Scotland (Apart from the A9 between Perth and Inverness which is a mix of single and dual carriageways set at an experimental 50mph straight through) they have stuck to the original limits i.e. 40 mph on single carriageways and 50 mph on dual carriageways.
By the way, I got caught and fined for doing 32 mph in a 30 limit(in a car)by a mobile speed camera van which was sighted on a blind bend so once you came around the corner FLASH FLASH you're caught
I did the speed awareness course and the tutor said that they were targeting drivers who were just over the speed limit so the 10% discretion is just a myth.
Regards Chris
Just been caught doing 35 in a 30 zone. Second time in can't remember how long the first was, hope it's more than 3 years as I did the speed awareness course the first time, won't be able to do it again if less.
I know there are some Advanced Drivers on this forum so just wondered if there are any 'tips' on how to drive within the speed limit.
Out of interest have any Advanced Drivers been caught speeding? Would they admit to it?
Hi Bob
Sorry to hear that you were caught slightly over the speed limit recently.
Yes, I can help but it'll need to be a fairly lengthy reply which can either be on here or as a PM.
I'm now retired but used to teach on driver awareness courses, speed awareness, fleet driver training courses courses and teach people to become driving instructors (as well as teaching people to drive). That was all after a 30 year career in FE.
I've passed all of the advanced driving qualifications (well beyond Inst of Adv Motorist level) and taken a great interest in the psychology of driving.
So.....would people be interested in a brief (ish) précis of my General thoughts on avoiding speeding?
Oh and by the way. No, I've never been caught speeding.
Do I exceed the speed limit? Yes, certainly but not intentionally and anyone who says otherwise is certainly bending the truth.
Martin
QuoteSo.....would people be interested in a brief (ish) précis of my General thoughts on avoiding speeding?
Yes, please.
There's a lot of hypocrisy around speed limits. They are broken millions of times every day and hardly anyone is any worse off.
Sorry to hear you were detected over the limit. I first past my advanced test 52 years ago and had a speeding fine 30 years ago for driving at 70mph in a 60mph limit on a road I travelled everyday at 60mph. Lapse of concentration and a telling off from the IAM.
One tip for speed control particularly in 30mph limits is to drop down at least one gear. You will sense the higher engine speed and be more conscious of your actual speed. I also have a speed limiter on my car which I find very useful.
We had a bit of correspondence in our local paper a few years back from someone who had been caught on camera doing 40mph in a 30mph limit. He had been driving that road for 15 years and thought the limit was 40mph. He also claimed that there was no camera along the stretch of road so how was the photo taken. Obviously did not spot the white van with a big camera image on it.
We had a speeding offence recorded against one of our company vans, and none of the three occupants would accept he was the driver. The Teeside police kindly supplied an image of the front of the vehicle which showed clearly who was driving. The image was so clear that all three were disciplined for having cans of beer in the cab.
Having been taught to drive by the Police and been on the advanced Police driving course, I would be interested in your thoughts Martin.
Quote from: dannyboy on July 15, 2020, 08:41:35 AM
Having been taught to drive by the Police and been on the advanced Police driving course, I would be interested in your thoughts Martin.
Yes please; so would I. I've never been caught breaking the speed limit either in a car or on a motorcycle. I suppose it's about keeping aware, which is much easier on two wheels. I gave myself a fright one day driving east past Ratho, carefully not exceeding 40 mph. Then I noticed that the speed limit had been changed to 30 mph since I last drove along there! No 'new speed limit' signs that I saw. Don't think that would have impressed the sheriff, though.
My pet peeve is badly sighted and confusing traffic signals. Some of these would give a Railway Signal Sighting Committee the vapours. There is a classic 'read through' on the way to Mrs
Poppingham's place of work.
Best wishes.
John
Quote from: Train Waiting on July 15, 2020, 09:14:12 AM
My pet peeve is badly sighted and confusing traffic signals. Some of these would give a Railway Signal Sighting Committee the vapours. There is a classic 'read through' on the way to Mrs Poppingham's place of work.
Best wishes.
John
I agree about badly sited signs or the complete absence of signs where limits change. The feeder road to our village is 30mph and marked correctly when you enter the road from the main 40mph route. In the other direction there is no 40mph sign when leaving the 30mph area, and the first evidence is the repeater signs after about 200yards both ways, one of which is concealed by tree foliage for half the year. The highways person says it is a fail safe situation - but she could not recognise the risk of people joining the 40mph road and driving at 30mph until they find a visible 40mph repeater. Risk equals someone distracted by a phone, children, dog, etc. The 40mph road is single carriageway with wide but overgrown verges, but no buildings.
Quote from: daffy on September 27, 2018, 02:37:23 PM
And at the risk of starting a war, let's have more of those average speed camera zones. Seem to work well in my experience, and at least unlike individual speed cameras the person in front of me doesn't suddenly slow to about 10mph below the legal limit to pass the camera, only to accelerate back to whatever speed they were formerly doing. >:D
Round here they are already doing 10mph below the limit and then Brake to even slower, and that's with the average cameras, many just don't understand how they operate..
Quote from: The Q on July 15, 2020, 11:09:33 AM
Quote from: daffy on September 27, 2018, 02:37:23 PM
And at the risk of starting a war, let's have more of those average speed camera zones. Seem to work well in my experience, and at least unlike individual speed cameras the person in front of me doesn't suddenly slow to about 10mph below the legal limit to pass the camera, only to accelerate back to whatever speed they were formerly doing. >:D
Round here they are already doing 10mph below the limit and then Brake to even slower, and that's with the average cameras, many just don't understand how they operate..
I don't do much motorway driving now, since it's the best part of an hour's drive to my nearest motorway, but I used to really like the contraflows with average speed cameras. Setting the cruise control to the precise speed limit, with confirmation of my speed on the satnav, it was amazing how many people I could pass - legally ;)
Quote from: Train Waiting on July 15, 2020, 09:14:12 AM
I've never been caught breaking the speed limit either in a car or on a motorcycle.
Likewise. Having been a Sales Manager for much of my working life and having driven at least ½ a million miles, much of it motorway, I don't boast about not having been caught as it's been more luck than judgement. For example, for many years doing 70mph on a motorway makes you a hazard it seems, and an indicated 80mph seems more apt to what's going on around you (dependent on weather conditions of course). My Siesta is not happy doing 30mph in 4th gear so I tend to knock it down to 3rd rather than slog the motor.
Cruise control is fine in roadworks and on empty roads but is no excuse if you are still caught speeding.
On many of our local roads the speed signs have been removed so it can be difficult to know what speed to use in which case either read the lamp post spacing or default to 30mph. What does annoy me is where there are huge amounts of speed camera signs but no actual posting of the limits. To me that's just councils trying to rake in money fraudulently.
Quote from: woodbury22uk on July 15, 2020, 09:41:04 AM
The highways person says it is a fail safe situation - but she could not recognise the risk of people joining the 40mph road and driving at 30mph until they find a visible 40mph repeater. Risk equals someone distracted by a phone, children, dog, etc. The 40mph road is single carriageway with wide but overgrown verges, but no buildings.
This Highways person is correct. It's a speed limit, not a target.
Just because the sign says "40" doesn't mean you have to do it, that every other road user will be doing it, or that it's safe to do so. Who's to say that whilst you're wizzing along at 40 there isn't a tractor struggling, quite legally, to do 20mph around the next bend?
The only risk to doing less than the speed limit is from other road users not paying attention or being impatient.
Steven B.
Quote from: Steven B on July 15, 2020, 12:53:27 PM
This Highways person is correct. It's a speed limit, not a target.
Just because the sign says "40" doesn't mean you have to do it, that every other road user will be doing it, or that it's safe to do so. Who's to say that whilst you're wizzing along at 40 there isn't a tractor struggling, quite legally, to do 20mph around the next bend?
The only risk to doing less than the speed limit is from other road users not paying attention or being impatient.
Steven B.
Of course you are right in theory, but it is sensible to analyse risk in the real world where drivers do treat the speed limit as a target, and allow themselves to be distracted when they should be concentrating on driving. Wilfully indicating a different speed limit to drivers on a road from the limit seen by people joining that road strikes me as unwise.
Everything in life is usually risk assessed including driving whether it's the car, the weather, your speed etc etc. We often risk assess things like driving without even realising we're doing it. I can't say I'm squeaky clean with speed when behind the wheel but I feel I do risk assess the conditions including how busy a road is and most importantly I always keep a safe distance from the car in front. Unfortunately the driver behind me often sees this as an invitation or a challenge to overtake and hence halve the gap I have left, that really annoys me >:(
I have had around 20 points in total on my licence but 'only' ever 8 at 1 time and that only lasted around 4 months. I did manage to 'win' 5 points and a total of £600 in fines/victim support whilst driving on the A303 once. A court appearance followed after being reported for an average of 99.15mph over 2.5 miles and the judge wanted to take away my licence :-\ Fortunately he listened to my mitigation and as I say I was 'lucky' to take away only 5 points and a much lighter wallet from Yeovil court. I know many people will disagree but at the time of the offence I felt very safe driving on an almost empty dual carriageway (just me and the unmarked BMW) in good weather conditions and I even slowed down at the roundabouts :thumbsup:
By the way and I know this is tempting fate but my licence is currently clean and my last points expired in September last year. I have learned my lesson and won't say I never knowingly exceed the speed limits but as above I risk assess the whole situation and drive accordingly and safely even if it means driving at 20mph below the limit. I'm always a little more wary on motorways as you need eyes in the back of your head on those!
In Bob's original post today he asked for any tips on how to drive within the speed limit.
This is, of course, a hugeLy complex and controversial subject and I could write pages and pages but I'll attempt to offer some simple guidance without getting into the pros and cons of individual prevailing limits and the reasons for them.
Maybe an example is a good place to start.
Before retirement, one of my roles was to teach on both speed and driver awareness courses. Typically attendees on driver awareness courses had been the contributory cause in an accident. If possible, I would try to return to the scene of the accident and ask my client to talk me through what happened. Frequently excessive speed was a major factor.
On this occasion the accident had occurred on a country road only a few miles away from where I live. Asking the client about the accident, the reply was something along the lines of, " There was nothing I could do, I came around the bend and the other car was crossing my path (it was a crossroads). I couldn't avoid hitting him".
On further investigation, my client was travelling at " no more than 50 on a national speed limit road so well within the limit" (his words). It was a road he uses virtually every day and actually a 30 limit has applied for many years).
We approached the location of the accident from a main road about a mile from the scene. My comments to my client, as we drove were :
Did you see the large 30 mph limit sign immediately after we turned off the main road?
Were you aware of the 4 smaller 30mph repeater signs between the main road and the scene of the accident.
The road is VERY bendy did you see the long white lines in the centre of the road?
Did you see the crossroads sign just before the scene of the accident?
The answer to all four was No and the client was amazed to learn that the road had a 30 limit and had done for many, many years.
This scenario was very typical but underlines the point that as drivers we frequently don't act on the information supplied to us. In effect, "reading the road".
So, in very much simplified format, I'll lay out the ground rules re speed limits.
National Speed Limit (large white sign with diagonal black bar) is 60mph or 70 mph on dual carriageways.
Dual carriageways can be identified by having some form of central reservation separating traffic going in either directions. Two lanes in each direction but without any form of central reservation is NOT deemed a dual carriageway.
At the start of any section of road deemed to be of National Limit standard the large white sign with black band will be displayed on both sides of the road. In normal circumstances there will be no repeater signs displayed.
30mph limits, in very general terms, apply in residential area where there are street lights (don't worry about the red herring as to how far apart they are) or on narrow twisty roads with lots of incoming junctions.
For the residential version of the 30 limit there will be a large 30mph sign at the start of the speed limit area but no small repeater signs.
In country areas where the limit is 30mph and where no street lighting is present, the start of the limit will be signified by the large 30 sign followed by smaller repeater signs at regular intervals (usually at least every quarter mile).
As I said earlier the national limit is 60 on single carriageway roads and 70 on dual carriageways. Hence, where a single carriageway becomes a dual carriageway there will be no additional signage (60 becomes 70 or vice versa at the end of the dual carriageway).
If at any point the limit on the dual carriageway is reduced, say to 60 or 50 or even 30, there will be a large sign signifying the lower limit plus regular repeaters reinforcing that lower limit.
So.....that leaves ordinary roads, be it in town or country where the limit is, say 40 or 50mph or even 20mph. In any of these scenarios the start of the limit will be indicated by a large 40 or 50 or 20 sign followed by regular repeaters. An exception is that in some 20 zones where there is ample street furniture (eg humps or chicanes) there is deemed no need for repeater signs.
That then is speed limits in short. It's only a guide and I fully realise that there are many instances where signage is non existent, obscured, poorly placed or defaced or where there are inaccuracies. I wouldn't want to comment on individual local scenarios.
So to return to our friend on the driver improvement course. In addition to missing the speed limit signs, he also, missed the crossroads warning sign and the longer than usual white central line.
Again, in a nutshell, the longer the white line, the greater the danger.
Next time you are on a dual carriageway or motorway, have a look at the white line between the lanes at a junction or on the approach to a lay by. The line will get longer as these are deemed to be high risk areas.
So.....that is a very potted version of what is a very complex subject. Hopefully it does, in some ways help to answer Bob's original question.
And do remember, as was stated elsewhere, the limit is a maximum speed, not a target. There will be many situations where speed should be substantially lower.
Phew......well you did ask.
Martin
I shall now get on my hard hat and sit in a darkened room well away from the forum. :D
Actually, I'll be watching the footie at 5-00.
Always provides an interesting discussion this and good to see some information and input from someone on the other side of it with a professional background like @port perran (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=230)
I feel my personal opinion and belief is that people not paying attention and driving standards are the biggest hazard on the roads now days. Not sure if its the modern mind set or just how safe and secure modern cars make people feel. Things have certainly got worse though in my opinion. Lack of lane discipline, no use of mirrors and just general lack situational of awareness.
With regards to speed it is amazing how people treat the signs as a minimum target. Country lane near us is only just wide enough for a car but is national limit. Wouldn't dream of doing more then 30 down it personally as it is mostly blind. People still try and achieve 60 down it though and seem to regularly end up inspecting the hedge also :unimpressed:
No saint myself. Got 3 points and a stern telling off from a Policeman when I had just passed my test many moons ago when I was 17. Was doing 45 in a 30. Stupid thing to do but I was young and Naïve at the time. Was a saint from then on as your not allowed more then 6 points in your first two years of driving :uneasy: Squeaky clean license since then though :)
Only naughtiness since was 55kph in a 50kph in France last year coming into Calais. Got a letter from the French demanding some Euros :doh:
Now days I get all of my speedy driving out of my system about once a month on a track day if my wallet and work calendar allow. Good for practising car control and also a good reminder of how much space is needed when you do run out of talent ;D
Despite having a sporty car I very much just bumble along on the roads now days keeping out the way of the idiots driving with their eyes closed....
All I can add to this discussion is that on the three times I've hired a car and driven on British motorways in the last ten years, most trucks and others seem to be well over the speed limit!
Scary.
I never saw one single patrol car, either.
You don't need two lanes in each direction to be a dual carriage way!!
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.757506,1.386281,3a,64.7y,146.61h,87.21t/data= (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.757506,1.386281,3a,64.7y,146.61h,87.21t/data=)!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHPOKub0bqxAUxfC2i9mc8g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
yep 70 limit but you'd be daft to do more than 40
Quote from: The Q on July 16, 2020, 01:42:27 PM
You don't need two lanes in each direction to be a dual carriage way!!
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.757506,1.386281,3a,64.7y,146.61h,87.21t/data= (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.757506,1.386281,3a,64.7y,146.61h,87.21t/data=)!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHPOKub0bqxAUxfC2i9mc8g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
yep 70 limit but you'd be daft to do more than 40
Sorry, can't get that link to work I'm afraid
Quote from: port perran on July 16, 2020, 02:16:06 PM
Quote from: The Q on July 16, 2020, 01:42:27 PM
You don't need two lanes in each direction to be a dual carriage way!!
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.757506,1.386281,3a,64.7y,146.61h,87.21t/data= (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.757506,1.386281,3a,64.7y,146.61h,87.21t/data=)!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHPOKub0bqxAUxfC2i9mc8g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
yep 70 limit but you'd be daft to do more than 40
Sorry, can't get that link to work I'm afraid
Try this link (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.757506,1.386281,3a,64.7y,146.61h,87.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHPOKub0bqxAUxfC2i9mc8g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) instead
Quote from: Trainfish on July 16, 2020, 02:29:56 PM
Quote from: port perran on July 16, 2020, 02:16:06 PM
Quote from: The Q on July 16, 2020, 01:42:27 PM
You don't need two lanes in each direction to be a dual carriage way!!
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.757506,1.386281,3a,64.7y,146.61h,87.21t/data= (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.757506,1.386281,3a,64.7y,146.61h,87.21t/data=)!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHPOKub0bqxAUxfC2i9mc8g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
yep 70 limit but you'd be daft to do more than 40
Sorry, can't get that link to work I'm afraid
Try this link (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.757506,1.386281,3a,64.7y,146.61h,87.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHPOKub0bqxAUxfC2i9mc8g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) instead
thanks, it's strange both links work on this computer..
And just to confirm that it is in fact a dual carriageway this is the view a hundred yards or so before you get to it (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.7580777,1.3844974,3a,75y,122.9h,104.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz9HlW3Is_9fijiS9Z2DaKQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
I guess I must either be a very good driver, or a very lucky one.
got my licence when I was 21, and it still has had no points on it.
only three 'contacts' with police,
one when driving a Volvo F7 6 legger with trailer on a dual carriageway at j50 mph, had a Rover SDi pull alongside, the passenger wag his finger at me, and then disappear into the distance.
one when I'd just got a Land Rover 110 V8, done all the servicing etc, and took it out for a run on the A23 in the evening to see how she handled.....
came over the brow of a hill at indicated 98mph and saw plod on the ramp by a bridge
:poop:
eased off but he came out after me and hit the blues, I hit the hazards on and off, and pulled into the next laybye.
'evening sir, any idea why I've stopped you ?'
'yes officer, I was speeding'
'you admit it ? what speed do you think you were doing ?'
'my speedo said 98 mph, but with the aerodynamics of a brick I think it was probably slightly less than that'
'we didn't clock you, but as you came past you were certainly doing well over 70, but by the time we caught you up you were doing 75mph'
he asked how long I'd had the vehicle, and I explained I'd only just got it, serviced it, and had come out at the quiet period after the rush hour to see how she handled, how she braked and cornered at speed and so on, so that I knew any quirks in handling / braking'
'licence please'
you can't really complain when you are caught can you, so I handed it over and kept quiet.
'you've had this a few years, see you've got PSV and HGV1, no points, would be a pity to spoil it wouldn't it?'
'yes officer'
'I am not going to see you driving at over 70 mph on my dual carriage way again, am I ?'
'no'
passed my licence back.
'drive safely'
:o
result not the same for a guy I worked with who got stopped for a tail light out ..
'haven't you got anything better to do ?'
:smiley-laughing:
yes they had.....
even did him for indicators flashing at the wrong rate :confused1:
and a bald spare tyre ???
plods are human, treat them with respect, and you may be surprised at how they treat you.
of course there are always the sons of unmarried parents...
stopped on A40 in a RAF artic in the 70s, passed a laybye with plodmobile in it, who pulled out behind me...
checked .. I'm doing 40mph
he speeds past, hits the blues, police stop sign, and brakes :o
managed to stop about 12 inches off his back bumper as he leaps out, comes to my cab and says
'your nicked'
'what for ?'
'you are displaying a different number at the rear of the vehicle than at the front'
'that's right'
'you admit it'
'yes, the clue is the funny number plate, the blue paint, and the roundels on the front and rear of the vehicle. it is an RAF vehicle, and military trailers and semitrailers have their own numbers.'
plod is not happy.
'check with your control, they will confirm it's right'
huff, puff, gets on talking broach, tries to argue, comes back to me.
'I'm going to search your vehicle'
'you are not. this is a military vehicle with a military load. if you want to check it, you need to contact you control, who will contact a senior officer, who will contact my station commander, who will send an officer to be present if he feels you have a reason to search the vehicle. if you try to search the vehicle otherwise, I'll deck you.'
more talking on broach....
'you can go'
followed me all the way back to Brize, where I had a word with the guards on the gate, and he ended up looking down a couple of gun barrels.
you always get the odd cretin, unfortunately, and they just won't listen, or learn.
so licence in'67, now '20, and still nil points. :angel:
Quote from: class37025 on July 16, 2020, 03:07:46 PM
even did him for indicators flashing at the wrong rate :confused1:
That reminds me of my very first day on the beat on my own. I had walked out of the station a matter of a few hundred yards when I was stopped by an old man, (probably younger than I am now ;)). He asked me how quick car indicators had to flash - what!?! I thinks to myself, "Flippin' 'eck, they test you". So thinking quick, trying to picture an indicator, I said something to the effect of, "Yes Sir, a minimum of 30 and maximum of 60 times a minute". He then told me that he was setting a pub quiz so had been to the library and the timings were actually a minimum of 60 and a maximum of 120 times a minute. I have counted a few indicator flashes in my time. :)