Steam layouts, a dying breed?

[E Pinniger]

A few months ago there was a live steam OO9 loco on eBay (not N, strictly speaking, but the same gauge and no bigger than some N gauge steam locos) - I think it was a German Stainz 0-6-0. Don't think it sold as it was a non-runner and the starting bid was around £500! The seller included a very detailed description of how he built it and why it no longer steams - basically, it ran OK when first built but after a few runs the leakage around the cylinders/pistons was too much for the loco's miniscule boiler and burner to cope with, so it couldn't raise enough steam pressure (it would still run on compressed air).

Seems to me like the best method might have been to have the boiler and burner in a wagon/coach with flexible steam pipes connected to the loco. This would allow a much larger capacity as well as reducing the heat-sink effect.

edit: Just found the eBay link - www.ebay.co.uk/itm/N-009-K3-Live-Steam-2-Cylinder-HOe-Stainz-Type-Locomotive-Loco-Runs-on-Air-/221149278894 . Unfortunately all the closeup photos are gone but the description makes an interesting read!

[MikeDunn]

As you say - an interesting read.  But so many issues with it ... 

[BlythStationLad]

I model the 1950s 'transition' era from steam to diesel so can justifiably run both on my layout. I don't see a model demise of steam, although I fully understand the younger generation of modellers being more interested in diesels/electrics/DMUs/EMUs. However this is a generalisation: there will be plenty of older modellers running non-steam, and plenty of younger ones steam-outline only. The key is the actual period the modeller is interested in.

I do think N Gauge steam-outline locos still don't run quite as sweetly as the rest - possibly something to do with the necessary 'slop' in the connecting rods, etc., and they do need a bit more careful handling. Info on 'modern image' naturally tends to be easier to access if you want to be faithful to a real loco, get the correct stock behind it and the right atmosphere.

The biggest problem for steam-outline, in my opinion, is the lack of pre-1948 models of rolling stock without repainting/modification. However the market size in the UK for that period is probably small and likely to naturally decline further.

The biggest issue long-term, though, seems to be how to maintain and even increase the modelling base in the UK irrespective of whether you model steam-outline or not: without a decent market size the manufacturers won't produce what we want.   

[Pengi]

The biggest issue long-term, though, seems to be how to maintain and even increase the modelling base in the UK irrespective of whether you model steam-outline or not: without a decent market size the manufacturers won't produce what we want.

This is a very good point. I think that the UK manufacturers are missing a trick in the way they advertise and perhaps they should look at what the Japanese are doing in this respect. Houses in the UK seem to be getting smaller so layouts need to be smaller and yet still remain user friendly and robust. Arguably, N is the way to do it but the manufacturers don't seem to have picked up on this.

So we need to ensure that all N gauge layouts do not become a dying breed (not just the steamers)

[longbridge]

The thought of British outline manufacturers becoming the same as Australian manufacturers sends a shiver down my spine.

Obviously Australia with a population of only 21 Million has a much smaller model railway following than The UK, what seems to be normal here is for a manufacturer to make an announcement that they are building a new model XYZ but will only have 1.000 units available, they expect payment up front and in some cases buyers have to wait up to 3 years for the product to be released.

I think this method of trading puts many modellers off plus the fact that some models are quite unreliable.

I would happily model Aussie if it were not so expensive and as far as Aussie N gauge that is very close to being a non starter.

Most Aussie modellers that model Australian HO run Diesel far more than steam, a 25 year old Lima 38 Class steam loco that sold for $100 when new still fetches many hundreds off dollars if in good nick and are still under demand.

[polo2k]

I must admit, I was initially wanting to exclusively run steam on my YVRR, however, I have pretty much decided to stretch reality a little to include some diesels. Purely for reliabilty and running time tbh.

I would however like to find some suitable locos to butcher to make the iconic 4-4-0`s that ran on the Yosemite line. (See wanted section )

[dodger]

Whilst I am a confirmed steam enthusiast I was brought up on the Southern Region when passenger trains were a mixture of green EMU's and steam locos hauling green coaches. I lost interest in the 60's when 'uncomfortable and gawdy coloured plastic worms' became the vogue and it hasn't got any better with sectorisation or privatisation.

For this reason I model the early 60's when steam was still in the forefront and EMU's had whistles and green ends.

Dodger

[H]

I was brought up on the Southern Region when passenger trains were a mixture of green EMU's and steam locos hauling green coaches. I lost interest in the 60's when 'uncomfortable and gawdy coloured plastic . . .  became the vogue

Eh, what was gaudy and plastic in the 60s? Nowt that I remember. Most stuff was dull, scruffy and boring then - the kettles were all black, dirty and unkempt. Even blue/grey has yet to take hold. Colourfull stuff didn't really start to take off until sectorisation in the 80s and 'plastic' MUs had yet to be introduced. The last of the solid 'non plastic' stuff didn't go until 2005/6.

H.

[dodger]

Eh, what was gaudy and plastic in the 60s? Nowt that I remember. Most stuff was dull, scruffy and boring then - the kettles were all black, dirty and unkempt. Even blue/grey has yet to take hold. Colourfull stuff didn't really start to take off until sectorisation in the 80s and 'plastic' MUs had yet to be introduced. The last of the solid 'non plastic' stuff didn't go until 2005/6.

H.

There was a typo it should have been 70's when the hideous CIG's came out in Blue & Grey.

Not sure what you mean by solid not plastic stuff lasting until 2005/6 as all the decent emu's had either been scrapped long before then or refurbished and painted in gaudy colours.

How can the 60's be boring when the good old prewar emu's were still running in green livery.

Dodger

[H]

Not sure what you mean by solid not plastic stuff lasting until 2005/6 as all the decent emu's had either been scrapped long before then or refurbished and painted in gaudy colours.

Blue and grey can hardly be considered hideous and anyway had it's roots from 1964 (in the 60s).

The term 'plastic' used by enthusiasts generally refers to modern third generation MUs like Desiros, Electrostars and Junipers.  Mk1 based MUs like (CEPs, CIGs, VEPs, EPBs, etc) are definately NOT considered 'plastic', were 'decent' and basically lasted until 2005/6. They didn't carry 'gaudy' liveries although were more enlivened than the dull and boring all green jobbies.

H.

[dodger]

The term 'plastic' used by enthusiasts generally refers to modern third generation MUs like Desiros, Electrostars and Junipers.  Mk1 based MUs like (CEPs, CIGs, VEPs, EPBs, etc) are definately NOT considered 'plastic', were 'decent' and basically lasted until 2005/6. They didn't carry 'gaudy' liveries although were more enlivened than the dull and boring all green jobbies.

H.

Well I prefer green EMU's and consider alot of Mk1's to be plastic due to the matierials used.

Dodger

[portland-docks]

Theres 2 locos i crave from the oz land, 3801 and r761, but i cant afford to pay 600ad for them...

[MikeDunn]

Blue and grey can hardly be considered hideous

Sorry H - I disagree totally ...

That's all we had - ugly, tatty, dirty, smelly blue & greys ... and the coaching stock wasn't any better either !!! 

[Karhedron]

If this discussion proves anything it is that beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder.

Good taste on the other hand is in the glass of the beer holder. 

[Pengi]

If this discussion proves anything it is that beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder.

Good taste on the other hand is in the glass of the beer holder. 

This is very true.

We've had a good old bit of banter going off topic and discussing diesels and electrics and even buses (I know, I've gone  too). So can we now get back to steam layouts?