I have heard that the buying area is being closed down.
I have an issue with the Classified area. How can you have a sale that is not an auction or a buy it now :confusedsign:
If this is not possible then why not just call the Classified section Ebay :veryangry:
If you read through the FAQ you will find the answers.
However, if you want a BIN there is a category for BIN so you put it in that category.
I hope that answers your issue :thumbsup:
Went through them first and NOPE.
If you go into the Classified section you will see the first on the list is BIN Locomotives, there follows every second listing a BIN option for all the different categories.
I do not want a BIN!!!!!!!!!!!
In that case I am obviously misunderstanding what it is you want.
You say "How can you have a sale that is not an auction or a buy it now"
How are you defining a sale please?
Negotiation
Quote from: Mirrlees on August 07, 2012, 11:57:01 PM
I have heard that the buying area is being closed down.
I have an issue with the Classified area. How can you have a sale that is not an auction or a buy it now :confusedsign:
If this is not possible then why not just call the Classified section Ebay :veryangry:
I guess you invite offers by PM?
Exactly Mustermark !
I apologise for the delay in getting back to you but I am waiting on an answer myself from the techie who does all the programming.
I would have thought if it was by negotiation you would want to do it by PM anyway so is your question where would you place the initial posting to invite offers?
Have I grasped it correctly this time?
From my understanding, you have hit it on the head there John.
Well I am waiting to find out if I am correct or not, I was about to sign off when I saw this post and decided to try and help but it appears I am being ignored now and I know he is still watching this thread.
So if I cannot get a confirmation whether I have grasped this issue correctly or not, the answer will have to wait till tomorrow as I am off to bed.
for my two pennyworth, surely if I want to sell something and I want £x then I list it as buy-it-now, if I want to see how high it will go then I list as an auction,
yes?
seems simples to me if I've got it right.
I think that covers 90% of what people want when they sell, and is probably why eBay is so successful.
But I can see Tim's point, that if you want to put something out there for, say, £50, but you might take £40 if someone offered that, then it doesn't really fit with either (unless you put a reserve on it). The BIN/auction dichotomy is fine for most things, but it does take a bit of the "Oh, Ok that'll do, I'll take that for cash" scenario out of the picture. Which is what folks could achieve by PM with the old system.
For the record, I think the new system looks fab and as far as I'm concerned will do nicely. But if you can indicate "PM me with an offer" then so much the better... though I suppose any BIN would be open to a PM anytime anyway, just not openly invited.
perhaps then list as BIN with a price of '£x ono' ?
Quote from: class37025 on August 08, 2012, 01:44:11 AM
perhaps then list as BIN with a price of '£x ono' ?
:thumbsup: :claphappy:
The rules of the auction state you cannot end an auction early.
However, Mustermarks suggestion of BIN ono is a good one. I would just amend it slightly by making it
BIN ono by PM
This would mean the negotiations are conducted in private - as they should be :thumbsup:
Quote from: Mirrlees on August 07, 2012, 11:57:01 PM
If this is not possible then why not just call the Classified section Ebay :veryangry:
Copyright!
If you have a price in mind that you're willing to take for something, then just put the item in an auction with a Reserve on it. If you get a couple of bidders on the auction, then that's more money your way, which is better for you! ;)
Quote from: Tank on August 08, 2012, 10:44:23 AM
Copyright!
Nope - trademark...
annoying pedants are us.
It's also not an auction because it has a fixed end time (which is fortunate because otherwise Tank would require a licence!)
RMWeb used to do buy and sell and then went ebay style. This did put people off.
Doing it as ebay does is too commercialised in my view. We are hobbyists not traders.
So please can the old system stay up and get ruined by the classified section.
Sorry guys but I'm with Tim on this one.
I must admit I sort of threw my hands up in disbelief when Tank launched the Classifieds :-[ :-[
Mainly because this is the route RMWeb went down a while ago, (and I'm not sure on this) usage went down, well it looked like it did anyway. If you look on their Marketplace (As AndyY calls it) there are only 4 items up for sale at the moment!!!
The DEMU forum still operates with the Buying and Selling section, without the use of an Auction based system.
I just like the idea of rooting through my stock box, finding something and thinking "I'll just stick this in the sales bit of the Forum for 20 quid and see if anyone wants it"...."Oh look someones offered me £15 for it, you know what that'll do" and not the "Right I'll stick this in the classifieds, whack a £20 Reserve on it and sit back and wait, or place a Buy-It-Now on it and laugh all the way to the bank" To me I prefer the old way, it seems a more...pleasant way for Modellers to sell to other modellers. Unless you allow a person to end their BIN early because someone's made them an offer by PM. I must admit, I do like looking back through the Sales Topic now and then, and spotting something that I maybe didn't want at the time, but could do with now. This is not possible with the Classifieds, once the Auction's finished it's gone (Just like the Manufacturers and their Batch production 'Buy it now or you won't get it again', which a lot of us moan about ;) ;)
I'm sorry Chris and others, but I just don't like it. It's the only bit of the Forum I don't like the rest is fabulous.
Regards
Neal.
There's no point having an auction feature (as opposed to buying) because the return from an auction is down to the number of potential buyers. It's why nobody has been able to compete with ebay
I too preferred the old arrangement because (despite moderators protests ;)) we have some very good and interesting conversations about them.
Only 4 items?! Wow, it's already better than RMWeb's!!! ;) ;D
I'm looking at this in the long term, and using threads in the main forum just won't work. It's only been 18 months and it's a mess. That board is littered with threads that aren't locked, and the moderators/volunteers on here don't have the time to go through them all, and to constantly ask members if the threads can be closed.
And I should think what has killed off RMWeb's Marketplace is probably the prices that they charge! :goggleeyes:
Just because something doesn't work on RM Web doesn't mean it won't be successful here.
I think we have a closer knit community here than on RM Web so the trading amongst us will still be done with the same politeness and respect that it has always been done.....at least give it a try fella's before making judgement :thumbsup:
sorry but i,m in the hate it camp.i don't even look in the classified section anymore.personally if i was selling i would list it with a price i want and negotiate accordingly with fellow members.
Quote from: Dock Shunter on August 08, 2012, 11:44:00 PM
Just because something doesn't work on RM Web doesn't mean it won't be successful here...........................
I agree but it does not give it a good start.
I did not seem to notice that the old board was a mess ???? What was I missing ?
Quote from: Dock Shunter on August 08, 2012, 11:44:00 PM
Just because something doesn't work on RM Web doesn't mean it won't be successful here.
I think we have a closer knit community here than on RM Web so the trading amongst us will still be done with the same politeness and respect that it has always been done.....at least give it a try fella's before making judgement :thumbsup:
:thankyousign:
:wave:
I guess we have the usual scenario here where some prefer one method over another. I have used both systems and find pros & cons with both.
However if the old system is resulting in dead/unlocked etc links littering the forum then a clean easy to administer system must be better and less time consuming. As Tank rightly points out this is a forum run by volunteers and therefore this forum should not be a major time consumer in their lives except by choice.
As 'normal' users we probably don't see the problems ie dead threads, in the same light - we generally log in, view the threads we want, have a read etc and log off. Easy life.
The great thing with this forum is that people tend to be pro-active and this is the first time I've seen a proper negative feeling. So come on guys, no system is going to please everyone all the time - everyone hates change. Lets give the new Classified a while to get going and lets offer help and ideas and not try to be too dismissive if doesn't suit us immediately. The Classified might solve some problems, it might cause some. Nothing is cast in stone here, or so it would seem. So with good input we should get something that we all find suitable for all needs.
:thankyousign: to all our Mods and Techs for their excellent work and willingness to embrace new ideas and make those changes we all desire where possible.
It seems that there is quite some support for the old buy and sell system, although I see Tank's point about the time it could consume to monitor.
on a couple of occasions I noted that items had gone, and asked for the thread to be closed, but nothing happened, and I could not delete it myself.
perhaps we could keep the buy and sell feature but with some changes :
1. the member who started the post can close / lock / delete it when it has served it's purpose.
2. the post will self destruct after a predetermined time [two or three months ?] so dead posts will not continue to clutter up the site.
if after the time your item has not sold, or you have not been offered the item if a buy, then you can always post again.
just a suggestion.
by the way, can we use my suggestion of BIN with a price plus ono ?
Quote from: class37025 on August 09, 2012, 09:04:49 AM
It seems that there is quite some support for the old buy and sell system, although I see Tank's point about the time it could consume to monitor.
on a couple of occasions I noted that items had gone, and asked for the thread to be closed, but nothing happened, and I could not delete it myself.
perhaps we could keep the buy and sell feature but with some changes :
1. the member who started the post can close / lock / delete it when it has served it's purpose.
2. the post will self destruct after a predetermined time [two or three months ?] so dead posts will not continue to clutter up the site.
if after the time your item has not sold, or you have not been offered the item if a buy, then you can always post again.
just a suggestion.
by the way, can we use my suggestion of BIN with a price plus ono ?
Like it :thankyousign:
Quote from: class37025 on August 09, 2012, 09:04:49 AM
on a couple of occasions I noted that items had gone, and asked for the thread to be closed, but nothing happened, and I could not delete it myself.
Thanks for the reply, but this is exactly the point I've made. The threads weren't being dealt with.
Quote from: class37025 on August 09, 2012, 09:04:49 AM
perhaps we could keep the buy and sell feature but with some changes :
1. the member who started the post can close / lock / delete it when it has served it's purpose.
2. the post will self destruct after a predetermined time [two or three months ?] so dead posts will not continue to clutter up the site.
I quite agree that in principal it would work, but it doesn't work as people don't go back and monitor their posts. Therefore it would be up to the moderators to clear up the mess. The amount of times I'd PM'd members at the beginning of the NGF, and the common response was more or less "Sorry, I'd forgotten about that thread".
Quote from: class37025 on August 09, 2012, 09:04:49 AM
if after the time your item has not sold, or you have not been offered the item if a buy, then you can always post again.
Which is the same as the Classifieds. :)
Quote from: class37025 on August 09, 2012, 09:04:49 AM
by the way, can we use my suggestion of BIN with a price plus ono ?
You can already make an auction with a start price, a reserve, and it can have a BIN price as well.
Quote from: Tank on August 09, 2012, 09:34:59 AM
You can already make an auction with a start price, a reserve, and it can have a BIN price as well.
Sort of misses my point completely.
If the issue is just moderation then I can volunteer my services just to look after the Buy/Selling section.
Quote from: Tank on August 09, 2012, 09:34:59 AM
Quote from: class37025 on August 09, 2012, 09:04:49 AM
by the way, can we use my suggestion of BIN with a price plus ono ?
You can already make an auction with a start price, a reserve, and it can have a BIN price as well.
I don't like to see that this is giving people an experience of negativity. We have been such a happy bunch.
So, I'm just trying to cut through the love-hate thing with a practical solution here and grasp what class37025 suggested. :worried:
Tank... in addition to the features you list there, is it also possible to have a buyer PM an offer, then the seller accept that (even if it is a bit below their BIN price) and then can the seller end their BIN early (i.e. delete the post)? If this is possible, is there a way to indicate the you would take offers (e.g. ono)?
I think that might mean the new system can allow exactly the same offer and negotiation that some people want to keep.
I may have missed something or i might just be a :dunce:(probably the latter) but i really don't see the need for any of this.:hmmm:
If you had something to sell...say for £20 but would be willing to let it go for £15 then why not just advertise it as a BIN for £15.
As long as any prospective buyers understand that the BIN price was the minimum you were prepared to accept then they either buy it or they don't.
Why would there be any need to advertise something for £20 then go through a series of PMs to end up with a selling price of £15 when you could just advertise it and sell it for £15........ :confused1:
The seller gets what he wants.....the buyer gets what he wants...maybe even a bargain..........jobs a good'n...... :claphappy:
Quote from: Dock Shunter on August 10, 2012, 01:40:07 AM
I may have missed something or i might just be a :dunce:(probably the latter) but i really don't see the need for any of this.:hmmm:
If you had something to sell...say for £20 but would be willing to let it go for £15 then why not just advertise it as a BIN for £15.
As long as any prospective buyers understand that the BIN price was the minimum you were prepared to accept then they either buy it or they don't.
Why would there be any need to advertise something for £20 then go through a series of PMs to end up with a selling price of £15 when you could just advertise it and sell it for £15........ :confused1:
The seller gets what he wants.....the buyer gets what he wants...maybe even a bargain..........jobs a good'n...... :claphappy:
This seems to sum it up well. Even if it listed as a BIN there is nothing to stop anyone PM the seller and make an offer. I've done the same on Ebay - recently someone was selling two SF SD40 and wanted BIN $120 plus PP of $10. I sent a message offering $110 inc PP and got them.
I don't see the problem :???: unless people are unsure about the value of items for sale and don't know what to price them at initially. A quick look around usually sorts that one.
I also think the new Classified looks a lot smarter and is easier to read.
Can we have a link in the topic section for this unless you have snuck one in without me noticing - at the moment I get to it through the link in the first post after clicking the ad on the home page :thankyousign:
Quote from: trainsdownunder on August 10, 2012, 03:53:11 AM
Can we have a link in the topic section for this unless you have snuck one in without me noticing - at the moment I get to it through the link in the first post after clicking the ad on the home page :thankyousign:
There is a link to the Classified section on the menu bar (it is fourth from the right). Is that what you meant? There is also a link to the Classifieds FAQs in the new 'Help and FAQ' link (which is the third link from the left on the menu bar)
DOH :dunce:
Quote from: Dock Shunter on August 10, 2012, 01:40:07 AM
I may have missed something or i might just be a :dunce:(probably the latter) but i really don't see the need for any of this.:hmmm:
If you had something to sell...say for £20 but would be willing to let it go for £15 then why not just advertise it as a BIN for £15.
As long as any prospective buyers understand that the BIN price was the minimum you were prepared to accept then they either buy it or they don't.
Why would there be any need to advertise something for £20 then go through a series of PMs to end up with a selling price of £15 when you could just advertise it and sell it for £15........ :confused1:
The seller gets what he wants.....the buyer gets what he wants...maybe even a bargain..........jobs a good'n...... :claphappy:
If put on 3 items for 20 quid on the board and someone wants all 3 then I would like to do a deal. Same goes for if I have 10 items on the board and someone wants more than one. The more you buy the more discount you get. BIN doesn't work like that :(
Quote from: Mustermark on August 10, 2012, 01:10:58 AM
Tank... in addition to the features you list there, is it also possible to have a buyer PM an offer, then the seller accept that (even if it is a bit below their BIN price) and then can the seller end their BIN early (i.e. delete the post)? If this is possible, is there a way to indicate the you would take offers (e.g. ono)?
I think that might mean the new system can allow exactly the same offer and negotiation that some people want to keep.
Currently there isn't a way to make an offer, like on eBay, but I can look into it. If nobody has bid on an item then I don't see any harm in a potential buyer making an offer via PM. It would be advised that the person making the offer write a comment on the listing, just in case someone bids afterwards - then there's no argument. :)
Quote from: Mirrlees on August 10, 2012, 08:59:37 AM
If put on 3 items for 20 quid on the board and someone wants all 3 then I would like to do a deal. Same goes for if I have 10 items on the board and someone wants more than one. The more you buy the more discount you get. BIN doesn't work like that :(
Similar to how I've explained above, if someone wants to negotiate items that haven't been bid on already, then there is no harm in members PMing each other. As long as comment is left that an offer has been made. Then the seller can adjust or take down the auctions/BIN's and the seller can pay. The software doesn't play a part in making sure someone pays or not, so that has always been between the two parties.
Thanks for your offer of being a moderator. I'm going to see how the Classifieds works out for now. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Mirrlees on August 10, 2012, 08:59:37 AM
Quote from: Dock Shunter on August 10, 2012, 01:40:07 AM
I may have missed something or i might just be a :dunce:(probably the latter) but i really don't see the need for any of this.:hmmm:
If you had something to sell...say for £20 but would be willing to let it go for £15 then why not just advertise it as a BIN for £15.
As long as any prospective buyers understand that the BIN price was the minimum you were prepared to accept then they either buy it or they don't.
Why would there be any need to advertise something for £20 then go through a series of PMs to end up with a selling price of £15 when you could just advertise it and sell it for £15........ :confused1:
The seller gets what he wants.....the buyer gets what he wants...maybe even a bargain..........jobs a good'n...... :claphappy:
If put on 3 items for 20 quid on the board and someone wants all 3 then I would like to do a deal. Same goes for if I have 10 items on the board and someone wants more than one. The more you buy the more discount you get. BIN doesn't work like that :(
But if you are already advertising the items individually at the minimum price you are willing to accept then why would you want to do a deal for multiple purchases..??
See Dr Al's post. He has various items up for sale in one post. Which he accepts offers on multiple items. So they are offer individually and as multiple.
Do the FAQ need to changed to allow ending items early if an offer is accepted.
Quote from: Mirrlees on August 10, 2012, 10:18:31 AM
See Dr Al's post. He has various items up for sale in one post. Which he accepts offers on multiple items. So they are offer individually and as multiple.
Do the FAQ need to changed to allow ending items early if an offer is accepted.
Yep, I'm onto it now thanks mate. :thumbsup:
I think the FAQ needs to be looked at. At present a 10 time length is way too short. 30 days sounds about right for all auctions, may be longer. I would also suggest that offers for multiple listings are only done on BIN. That way nobody gets disappointed.
in the new classified section when you receive a bid message there are two options in it,
accept or reject bid, what do these options actually do???