Hattons and Farish

[bluedepot]

i have got quite a few pre orders to switch now...

any recommendations?


tim

[longbow]

Rails or Model Railways Direct, who are now taking pre-orders. 

[Newportnobby]

i have got quite a few pre orders to switch now...

any recommendations?

tim

I've used Rails of Sheffield for years, Tim. Generally a price match for Hattons and have always given me good service

[njee20]

Collett's of Exmouth worth a look too. One of the small bricks and mortar shops, but rivals the big boys on price. Payment plans too.

[red_death]

Any accusations that Bachmann are trying to suppress competition or fire warning shots had better have some evidence as the evidence against is publicly available (Bachmann's T&C). If people are going to insist on unfounded theories then definitely time for the mods to lock this thread.

[JonHarbour]

I got the 'We cannot fulfil your pre-order of this product' e-mail last night for the sound-fitted Green Class 108. Never mind, I will look elsewhere...

I did ask 'why' but the answer was evasive. Would be nice to know more about the elephant in the room.

[exmouthcraig]

Oh well, so be it. Technically Hattons (in the Graham Farish world) has closed down. They still trade with numerous other N gauge manufacturers and suppliers of many worthwhile products.

We've kind of known that was the way it would end but, was there truth in Hattons allocation of Bachmann stock on hold just incase the situation resolved itself? If so presumably they'll be a good volume of the last 9-12months worth of GF stock available for all their other stockists to buy and sell? Or is that where Model Rail Direct got their sale stock?? 

[Cape Town Trev]

For me a bulk order from Hattons allowed me to use DHL via online ordering to ship quickly to Cape Town. Having self organized a DHL courier for a Union Mills order I can see that Hattons appeared to have discounted rates. At present I do not see say Rails using DHL stock answer is we use Royal Mail or Parcelforce as appropriate. In a nutshell I will be losing convenience and maybe price when I move away from Hattons 

[JayM481]

Any accusations that Bachmann are trying to suppress competition or fire warning shots had better have some evidence as the evidence against is publicly available (Bachmann's T&C). If people are going to insist on unfounded theories then definitely time for the mods to lock this thread.

The Ts&Cs are, frankly, evidence that this is exactly a warning shot. Several dealer/distributors are into the exclusive commission thing, and this appears to be a very clear warning to all of the consequences of straying outside the established lanes.

Note that in some jurisdictions the usual cozy collaboration between UK model railway manufacturers would be straying perilously close to the rocks of anti-trust legislation.

[longbow]

According to RMWeb, Bachmann are taking issue not with retailer model commissions per se but with Hattons wish to wholesale their own commissioned products to other retailers. Hattons must have ambitious plans in that direction if they are willing to ditch Bachmann in pursuit of it.

[Chris Morris]

According to RMWeb, Bachmann are taking issue not with retailer model commissions per se but with Hattons wish to wholesale their own commissioned products to other retailers. Hattons must have ambitious plans in that direction if they are willing to ditch Bachmann in pursuit of it.

I think that's the real issue. As soon as Hattons allow their name to be on models sold through other retailers they become a competitor to Bachmann. Bachmann have their T&Cs which quite reasonably say they wont supply their products to other manufacturers. On the other hand Hattons must have seen a gap in the market that they think they can exploit. They would not be continuing on what appears to be a high risk venture if they didn't see an opportunity. Its just business. Both parties are doing what they believe is right for them for a good future. Neither party should be seen as being in the wrong.

I think Bachmann see the likes of Hattons as a threat because Hattons will have lower overheads than Bachmann Europe and will have the ability to get quotes from a number of factories for anything they want to have made rather than be forced to accept whatever price Kadar give them. This means there is a good chance that their total costs for any model will be lower than Bachmann's costs. It will be interesting to see where we are in five years time.

I wonder if Bachmann should be working on getting their cost base lower rather than stifling competition. You only have to compare their prices for coaches with Dapol's prices to see they must be doing something wrong. Farish mk 1 coach rrp - £39.95, Dapol mk 3 coach rrp - £25.95.

[Izzy]

What rather bemuses me with the suggestions that it is about one manufacturer not supplying another with it's products, which I quite understand, is that others such as Hornby, Dapol etc don't appear to be doing the same. They would seem to be happy to provide Hattons with stock. Mind you they also sell direct through there own websites, which Bachmann UK don't, so perhaps take a different view of the marketplace that exists today.

Whatever the case it's an unfortunate end to the matter in which there doesn't appear to be any real winners, indeed that many loose out one way or another. Very sad.

Izzy

[PLD]

About time that Hattons made up their mind what they want to be - "Retailer" or "Manufacturer"...

Is there some unwritten law we are unaware of where it's enshrined you can't be both?

No but there is a very clearly written rule in Bachmanns T&Cs that Hattons must have been aware of that they won't supply to other manufacturers...

Arguably Bachmann have actually been more tolerant of Hattons (and others) commissioning models to retail under their own brands, but while those models remained 'exclusive' to one retailer it was tolerated; that changed when you started to see Hattons branded products appear at other retailers...

What rather bemuses me with the suggestions that it is about one manufacturer not supplying another with it's products, which I quite understand, is that others such as Hornby, Dapol etc don't appear to be doing the same.

Not Yet... ... ...

[njee20]

Which is why the 66 is allegedly the sticking point.

That is a direct aim at Bachmann, and categorically will cost them sales. Doing complementary models is a good thing for Bachmann, but duplication isn't, particularly when it's specifically intended to take market share, unlike (for example) the Dapol/Farish 66s which were simply developed simultaneously.

Hornby have their new Railroad 66, and now Hatton's have the high end top spec one. Bachmann suddenly have a defunct product line!

As others have observed the reality is that other retailers will pick up the slack, I've not seen anyone saying "my pre-order's been cancelled so I'm buying a Dapol model instead. The impact to Bachmann is probably reputational principally.

I wonder if Bachmann should be working on getting their cost base lower rather than stifling competition. You only have to compare their prices for coaches with Dapol's prices to see they must be doing something wrong. Farish mk 1 coach rrp - £39.95, Dapol mk 3 coach rrp - £25.95.

That's a bit of an unfair comparison IMO, the mk1 is a complex design with lots of detail, the mk3 is very simple in comparison. Fairer I think is some of the wagons - Dapol's Megafret IKA container flats are still £35 (plus containers), whilst Farish's FIAs are up to £80 now, both released at the same time, about 10 years ago. Obviously we've no idea about the respective strategies to amortisation, but if Bachmann are still recouping costs on a model that far down the line on about the 5th production run I'd be concerned.

Arguably Bachmann have actually been more tolerant of Hattons (and others) commissioning models to retail under their own brands, but while those models remained 'exclusive' to one retailer it was tolerated; that changed when you started to see Hattons branded products appear at other retailers...

Gaugemaster are doing the same with their "Gaugemaster Collection", although they're basically just repaints at the moment.

[Paul-H]

i have got quite a few pre orders to switch now...

any recommendations?


tim

TMC have started offering pre orders.