Mach Loop

[guest311]

was catching up on some clips from the Mach Loop, and as usual very proud of the results......

USAF F18s etc ... lovely underside views

USAF KC-130s .... lovely underside views......

RAF A400s and C130s .... lovely views looking DOWN onto the top surfaces, wingtips almost skimming the sides of the valley...

USAF TOP GUNS ..... very much so ---USAF top cover, RAF down and dirty in the valley.

[Calnefoxile]

So as usualy the Yanks are too scared to go low flying then!!

To them low flying is 1000ft.

I remember a story told to me by a Bucc Pilot that during a Red Flag exercise in the Nevada, that 2 Buccaneers were bounced by 2 Tomcats, now in normal scenarios the Buccs would have been dead meat to the Tomcats, but oh no!! The Bucc pilots did what they are trained to do and hit the deck, flying across the desert at about 50-100ft above the ground, flying in between the dunes and valleys, whilst the Tomcats stayed up at 1500ft and cried foul, asking, in fact, insisting that the RAF play fair and come up, to which the Brits said "If you want us, come down here and get us"

Anyway, when they got back to base, the 'umpires' in charge of the excercise decided that there would be a level that aircraft weren't allowed to go below, all because the Yanks couldn't bring their aircraft down to ground level.

There has always been a saying in the RAF, "The Americans have best aircraft, whilst the RAF has the best Pilots".........

Cheers

Neal.

[GAD]

Many years ago there was some footage of Buc's in that excercise, the footage had been shot by a US crew, not sure which service they came from. The pilots were making tight, 75° banked turns on the deck which saw their wingtip vortices picking up sand from the 'floor'. They played in some comments from the camera crew, which went along the lines of...'Holy bleep! Look how low those guys are gettin.'

When the Vulcans took part for the last time, before they were disbanded, they arranged to have photographs taken of them flying IN the Grand Canyon.
US air traffic control were unimpressed as there was a no low flying zone for everything but tourist helicopters. 'Rockets' were issued to the personnel involved, who were not too bothered as quite a few of them were retiring with the Vulcans. 
On the return flight to the UK, they did it again, but lower!

I used to live in a little village half way up the Deerness Valley in Co' Durham, being a map nerd I knew we were 85ft above the valley bottom.
We often saw RAF Jaguars going up the valley, so low that we could only see the upper surfaces of the Jaguars. However you could get a glimpse of the pilot's instrument panel.

I've always been impressed by our RAF.

[guest311]

in all fairness, not a thing I am well known for, but the Osprey pilots, think they may be marines rather than USAF, do get down and dirty in the loop, almost as low as the RAF Chinooks, and bearing in mind that their "rotors" are often rotated to be vertical rather than horizontal, they cannot have much clearance.

it is striking though to watch clips of a procession of Hawks, Tucanos [both presumably with L plates on] Tornadoes, even Typhoons going through below the photographers, then seeing the F-15 / 16 / 18s etc flying overhead, though in one clip I watched some F-15s, IIRC from Lakenheath, did get down in the valley.

still, for me it's always the big RAF transports, C-130s, A400s and even C-17s weaving through the valleys that is the most impressive.

am I mistaken, but did I also once see a RAF Tucano in WWII camo scheme, or is my memory failing me ? 

[Jack]

Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons, there are better pilots than the RAF... Royal Navy! (Running for cover!  )

When I served in the Royal Signals as part of Helo ground liaison at one time, the Boys always preferred the Navy Helos' to the RAF, when if given the choice would say they would rather crawl to the Navy because RN pilots would fly in any weather conditions to bring you home. And I was once told by an RN pilot that RAF pilots were non to keen on landing on "bouncing" Aircraft Carriers, where as it was second nature to Navy pilots.

I do appreciate that there was probably some inter service banter/rivalry going on between one and all, and things have probably changed over the years

[guest311]

I may well need to stand corrected on this, but I THINK that the RN no longer has any fixed wing pilots, only rotors.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the RAF would be flying that unmentionable yankee computer thingy from the carriers, if the computer would let them, of course, while RN pilots fly the ex RAF Merlins.

in the Falklands war IIRC RAF Harriers were deployed onto the carriers, to replace combat losses to Sea Harriers.

wonder if they got their daily tot    

[RailGooner]

I may well need to stand corrected on this, but I THINK that the RN no longer has any fixed wing pilots...

Sorry to be the one to correct you Alan, but the FAA train on Hawks and operate F35s. Just not as well as their peers in the RAF of course.

[Jack]

@class37025

Taken from the RN recruiting website to become a Navy pilot...

"...Whether you're flying a Wildcat helicopter or being one of the first to fly the new F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, you'll become a master of mission-focused flying..."

[martyn]

Scroll down a bit, and though I think this website might be a little behind time, it says that though allocated to 617 squadron they are flown by both RAF and FAA personnel.

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/the-equipment/aircraft/fixed-wing/f35-lightning

Martyn

[guest311]

I stand, suitably contrite, corrected. 

[stevewalker]

I remember a story told to me by a Bucc Pilot that during a Red Flag exercise in the Nevada, that 2 Buccaneers were bounced by 2 Tomcats, now in normal scenarios the Buccs would have been dead meat to the Tomcats, but oh no!! The Bucc pilots did what they are trained to do and hit the deck, flying across the desert at about 50-100ft above the ground.

There is a video on Youtube where a Buccaneer Pilot talks about a Red Flag exercise where they were flying low at 550 knots, but kicking up too much dust from the ground, so they had to rise from 10ft to 20ft!

Found it

[Skyline2uk]

I really must get myself to the Mach Loop at some point.

I may be in the "civvy" part of the industry, but the degree that got me in didn't discriminate.

I have always been in awe of any sort of pilot, even had a go at the unpowered sort during said degree. That was peaceful, I dare say it's not the same in a Typhoon between the valleys....

Harrier pilots / AV8Bs (for our Marine friends) must have had some stones. Moving around on literal hot air!

But a word ref the Osprey. That thing is dam near witchcraft. It was in the final phases of development when I was in Uni, some of my Tutors said it was being rushed. I hope I am wrong but I think some lives were lost testing it.

Skyline2uk 

[Steven B]

I was once stood with some friends on the end of a ridge in the Lake District. We heard a jet and looked down the valley on one side to see a Hawk below us. It made the turn at the end of our ridge and went back up the other side.

It was low enough, that we could see into the cockpit as it made the turn. I'd like to think the pilots would have waved back at us had they not been busy!


The stories that come from the exercises in the US are remarkable. I heard one where a Vulcan did a mock bombing run with the American's waiting to intercept it. A couple of hours later the American's phoned the airbase asking why the Vulcans hadn't taken off - the RAF crew had been and gone and back in the mess having a drink.

Steven B.

[Jon898]

Old converted Buccaneer Red Flag cockpit video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuYwOEF5xag

Music is a bit annoying, so may want to mute.

Jon

[guest311]

550kts
at
100ft 
no wonder they need to pull up to drop their bombs