To replace a dead XP desktop

Started by MalcolmInN, March 02, 2015, 04:28:16 PM

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Geoff

Quote from: MalcolmAL on March 02, 2015, 09:21:14 PM
Quote from: Geoff on March 02, 2015, 08:59:54 PM
Malcolm I honestly think Windows 8 is the way to go never go backwards with operating systems that way they last you longer,
On the other hand, if you always use the OS one before last you will be safe, because all the ne'er-do-wells are busy writing malware for the latest OS.
ie.dont jump into Win10 until Win12 is on the market.
That way you can go from Win3.11 to Vista without ever having a virus or trojan or whatever :) , now if that dont tempt providence I dunno what will LOL!

Never had a virus yet on Windows 8 but I did in Vista horrible OS, I got my windows 8 for £25 because no one would buy it lol, and I believe I can upgrade with Windows 8 to Windows 10 for free so yes please I do not mind being a guinea pig, its all word of mouth how bad an operating system is if the majority do not like it and they have never used it who is right and who is wrong.

People just do not like change.
Geoff

MalcolmInN

Quote from: RST on March 02, 2015, 08:57:23 PMI just could not get a replacement laptop with Windows 7 on it 18 months ago.
Likewise, PC World - you can have any colour of Windows you like as long as it's a black&white Win8.1 :(
but they were always like that,
and never before seen them selling 'barebones' either,,, man was surprised and reknd they were only available online anyway.
So no good supporting local highstreet, may as well go to overclockers or someone after all :(


MalcolmInN

Quote from: Geoff on March 02, 2015, 09:30:15 PMand I believe I can upgrade with Windows 8 to Windows 10 for free
Yes, something like that, 'my man' said buy 8.1 this year and you get a free W10 upgrade,
I forgot to ask him, if W10 gets delayed beyond your 1y wot then ?

so they do say about Vista , and did same about ME, neither bit bit me tho'
Mind u Vista on this wee laptop of only 500Mb ram does run out of breath from time to time and hammers the swapfile pretty bad at times, 'specially with Firefox.



DELETED

QuoteQuote from: RST on Today at 08:57:23 pm

    I just could not get a replacement laptop with Windows 7 on it 18 months ago.

Likewise, PC World - you can have any colour of Windows you like as long as it's a black&white Win8.1 :(
but they were always like that,
and never before seen them selling 'barebones' either,,, man was surprised and reknd they were only available online anyway.
So no good supporting local highstreet, may as well go to overclockers or someone after all :(

...yes high street names will only sell you the latest (and good at selling it they are too, they don't like it when you start asking tricky questions outside their training!!).

I'm waiting for windows 10 to come out, but like said before, I'll wait a good while as Microsoft are terrible for rolling out stuff without the bugs fixed!

I helped so many folk out at work using windows 7 and trying to get equipment hooked up to computers (software designed for XP but supposedly compatible with 7).  There's a few hoops to jump through and downright perseverance, the data comms side really went downhill.  God help us if / when windows seven is obsolete and we have to run industrial machines off the likes of windows 8.  No doubt you experienced IT guys will go PFF and say it's easy but no so for those of us who just want a PC and need things to work.

2 things I learned over the years:  Any mention of Norton (McAfee these days also) and I scrub it off straight away, I have been there rescuing too many PC's in the past where Norton has proved to be the death of the hard drive.  I only use Kaspersky now.  Also, I never use Internet Explorer on my own computers, I use Firefox with a couple of simple add-ons.  Makes internet browsing so much more pleasurable and both together almost totally hassle free.  I hate using my mothers PC (uses internet explorer), cluttered with so many ads, junk and downright spam all over the screen -but I live too far away to have put firefox on it yet.  I might do it next time I go down though.

davidinyork

Quote from: MalcolmAL on March 02, 2015, 09:21:14 PM
On the other hand, if you always use the OS one before last you will be safe, because all the ne'er-do-wells are busy writing malware for the latest OS.

No, you won't! Most malware will work on any version of Windows.

As others have said, avoid XP - it's out of support and if anything the malware writers will be targeting it more now - when a security patch is released for more recent versions of Windows, they will be looking to see whether the same security hole also applies to XP, and if it does (many will) and they didn't know about that hole, they will be looking to exploit it.

Windows 7 is my preference, but you won't find any new computers in retail channels with it on now (although it's still fairly available through business channels). The most sensible option at the moment is 8.1, and if you want a start menu (which does make it easier to use), there are a number of third-party programs available for this. My preference is for one called Classic Shell (google it), which is a free download and works well.

Windows 10 is due out later in the year, and has a start menu of its own again. I've had a good play with the pre-release version and it's not bad at all - provided they don't make any daft changes before release it should be much better than 8.1.

keithfre

Quote from: davidinyork on March 08, 2015, 02:57:49 PM
As others have said, avoid XP - it's out of support and if anything the malware writers will be targeting it more now
I've stuck with XP, always with Firefox and Thunderbird and a separate firewall and antivirus (for the past few months I've switched to BitDefender so as to have the two integrated in one package), and haven't had any problems. I reckon a good firewall and antivirus are going to give me better protection than any operating system.

davidinyork

Quote from: keithfre on March 08, 2015, 04:13:10 PM
Quote from: davidinyork on March 08, 2015, 02:57:49 PM
As others have said, avoid XP - it's out of support and if anything the malware writers will be targeting it more now
I've stuck with XP, always with Firefox and Thunderbird and a separate firewall and antivirus (for the past few months I've switched to BitDefender so as to have the two integrated in one package), and haven't had any problems. I reckon a good firewall and antivirus are going to give me better protection than any operating system.

That will help, but a determined attack on a security hole in the operating system itself may well still succeed.

austinbob

Quote from: keithfre on March 08, 2015, 04:13:10 PM
Quote from: davidinyork on March 08, 2015, 02:57:49 PM
As others have said, avoid XP - it's out of support and if anything the malware writers will be targeting it more now
I've stuck with XP, always with Firefox and Thunderbird and a separate firewall and antivirus (for the past few months I've switched to BitDefender so as to have the two integrated in one package), and haven't had any problems. I reckon a good firewall and antivirus are going to give me better protection than any operating system.
I've found BitDefender is pretty good, although it sometimes comes up with false positives - but you can tell it to ignore them anyway. I also use Malwarebytes which works well in flagging up dodgy web sites etc.
I use to love my XP machine but run a Windows 7 box right now. Not keen on Windows 8 for a desktop, maybe the next version will be better.  :)
Size matters - especially if you don't have a lot of space - and N gauge is the answer!

Bob Austin

Geoff

Quote from: austinbob on March 08, 2015, 04:17:58 PM
Quote from: keithfre on March 08, 2015, 04:13:10 PM
Quote from: davidinyork on March 08, 2015, 02:57:49 PM
As others have said, avoid XP - it's out of support and if anything the malware writers will be targeting it more now
I've stuck with XP, always with Firefox and Thunderbird and a separate firewall and antivirus (for the past few months I've switched to BitDefender so as to have the two integrated in one package), and haven't had any problems. I reckon a good firewall and antivirus are going to give me better protection than any operating system.
I've found BitDefender is pretty good, although it sometimes comes up with false positives - but you can tell it to ignore them anyway. I also use Malwarebytes which works well in flagging up dodgy web sites etc.
I use to love my XP machine but run a Windows 7 box right now. Not keen on Windows 8 for a desktop, maybe the next version will be better.  :)

Apparantly they have still not sorted the start button in Windows 10 at this present time in beta, but whether they do on release is another question but there is allways Classic Shell.
Geoff

davidinyork

Quote from: Geoff on March 08, 2015, 04:29:42 PM
Apparantly they have still not sorted the start button in Windows 10 at this present time in beta, but whether they do on release is another question but there is allways Classic Shell.

The W10 beta does have the start menu - I've played with it quite a bit and it seems fine, and provided there aren't any daft changes between now and the final release I'll have no problem with gradually rolling it out onto the computers I manage (about 120 in total).

As you say, with 8.1 there is always Classic shell, which is good and makes W8.1 behave pretty similarly to W7.

For reasons I won't bore you with I needed to upgrade our terminal servers for remote users from the server version of W7 (Server 2008 R2) to the server version of W8.1 (Server 2012 R2). I rolled out a test first to a small number of users and spent several days fielding phone calls because they couldn't find things. I put classic shell on and the problem went away! When I came to set up the live servers, I also put classic shell on, and I've had very few problems and even those users who struggle with computers have mostly not had any problems. I think the main problem with 8.1 and its lack of a start menu is that it's disjointed.

Geoff

Thanks David for the update, it is just my friend told me Windows 10 start button does not work as good as on Windows 7, but it is work in progress and I am sure Microsoft will want to get Windows 10 spot on.

Yes you are correct about Windows 8 being disjointed, but at the time I think they needed to fill a void with tablets, just a shame you have to rely on third party software houses to install a start button.
Geoff

MalcolmInN

#26
Quote from: davidinyork on March 08, 2015, 02:57:49 PM
No, you won't!
,
,
Windows 7 is my preference, but you won't find any new computers in retail channels with it on now
Theoretically you may be right, but in practice there are no kudos for writing malware to target anything other than the latest release by M$ ( including, or even more so, their 'patches')
So you stick to your plan, I'll stick tp mine ! - I've never been infected by malware since I started interneting in the days of DOS ( remember telnet, ftping, archie and gopher ? ! ) mind u I have been able to point out to chums when they have been infected, by the nature of their emails ! Could be down to practicing safe hex :)
Oh, and put not your faith in resident Nortons, McA and the rest, they are always one step (or more) behind the badboys.
,
,
Yes I know there isnt anything other than W8.1 retail, I was asking about experiences on installing XP on modern hardware, to keep the boss happy - me ? I'm ok wiuth Linux if need be !!
But you've all convinced me, she'll have to get used to W8.1, and if she gives my grief I'll blame you lot  :bounce: >:D


davidinyork

Quote from: MalcolmAL on March 09, 2015, 12:04:43 AM
Quote from: davidinyork on March 08, 2015, 02:57:49 PM
No, you won't!
,
,
Windows 7 is my preference, but you won't find any new computers in retail channels with it on now
Theoretically you may be right, but in practice there are no kudos for writing malware to target anything other than the latest release by M$ ( including, or even more so, their 'patches')
So you stick to your plan, I'll stick tp mine ! - I've never been infected by malware since I started interneting in the days of DOS ( remember telnet, ftping, archie and gopher ? ! ) mind u I have been able to point out to chums when they have been infected, by the nature of their emails ! Could be down to practicing safe hex :)
Oh, and put not your faith in resident Nortons, McA and the rest, they are always one step (or more) behind the badboys.
,
,
Yes I know there isnt anything other than W8.1 retail, I was asking about experiences on installing XP on modern hardware, to keep the boss happy - me ? I'm ok wiuth Linux if need be !!
But you've all convinced me, she'll have to get used to W8.1, and if she gives my grief I'll blame you lot  :bounce: >:D

The malware writers aren't bothered about kudos - it's all about getting your bank details, etc!

As regards running XP on modern hardware, it will depend on the hardware but in most cases the drivers won't be available so it won't work properly.

MikeDunn

Wot 'e said, squared ... ...  No-one (mfrs, anyway) develops new drivers for old kit - only some hackers (and I use that term in it's classic sense) who see if they can work around the limitations (eg running the Phillips Toucam on something more recent than XP)

On malware, the ones who won't be ar$ed are those who do it for 'fun' etc - but they seem to be quite a minority these days ... as David says, it's all about money (either yours or a corporations), and a lot comes out of China et al hot on the tails of the announcements.  If, like some recent ones have been, the vulnerability extends back into old code, they will attack those systems as they are not being protected / updated now.

Quote from: MalcolmAL on March 09, 2015, 12:04:43 AM
I've never been infected by malware since I started interneting in the days of DOS ( remember telnet, ftping, archie and gopher ? ! )
Actually, I remember t'interwebthingie back in the days of a teletype on a 1200 baud modem from school to the local Uni ... no screen etc, just the keyboard for input and the teletype printer for output ... and yes, that pre-dates DOS  ::)  And Sir Tim inventing the Web  :-[  But in my usage, not by a lot (boy, am I glad he did ... those teletypes were  s l  o   w    .     .         .           .     

Malc

One of my first jobs when I started at the Beeb was maintaining Creed 7b teletypewriters and yes they were slow. 50 baud was fast in those days and no ASCII, 5 bit Murray code was used.
The years have been good to me, it was the weekends that did the damage.

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