Getting very frustrated at Dapol failures

[Rabbitaway]

I was looking to return it today before the local post office closed

Now I am going to have to use a central London post office always with long queues and lose my lunch hour

[railsquid]

Understandably annoying.

I await the arrival of my 22 with trepidation...

[scruff]

I've found the opposite, out of 60 odd loco's, all diesel and electric which are split about 50/50 between Farish and Dapol.. I've had to reject 2 Farish in the shop, a 60 with badly fitted bogie and a 31 with decoration issues. I've had to repair 2 other farish, a 60 and a 47, both with split gears.

I also had to repair 2 class 08, front steps fell to bits, a Dapol 26, buffer damaged, a farish 55, cabside windows fell out and 2 class 86, both with pantograph damage and one buffer too. Being honest the 08's and 55 were down to me holding them wrongly. the 26 was caused by me dropping an 86 on it and the other 86 was me knocking the pan off.

so looking at it, my experience is that farish are worse but I know that many others have had problems with Dapol. I also think the way complaints /returns/repairs are dealt with makes a huge difference in the customers perception of the companies.
Customer service doesn't cost a lot and makes all the difference.

Cheers
Mark

[Dr Al]

I spent a lot of years teaching and handling statistics.  Your sample of 100 locos is still statistically within the range where you are liable to get a completely false set of readings. 

The key flaw in all these statistics is there is not a common standard baseline. Each person will have a different perception of what's "acceptable" and what's not.

Cheers,
Alan

[austinbob]

I spent a lot of years teaching and handling statistics.  Your sample of 100 locos is still statistically within the range where you are liable to get a completely false set of readings. 

The key flaw in all these statistics is there is not a common standard baseline. Each person will have a different perception of what's "acceptable" and what's not.

Cheers,
Alan

That's true if your talking subjective problems like noise or how hot a motor gets.
It's not true if you're talking faults like not running in both directions, valve gear jamming/breaking, bits missing, bits dropping off, broken  wires, pickups not working. All of the loco faults I've had are in this second category.

[guest311]

Just my perspective on this, but for many years I kept well away from Dapol due to their reputation on here, and a 100% failure rate of the two cl66 that I did buy.
luckily, my required locos tend to be cl20 / cl37 / cl47 all of which have been sourced of course from Farish.
the odd problem, but nothing too serious, TOUCH WOOD 
however I did bite the bullet and got some cl26s and cl27s from Dapol, and so far all four have performed flawlessly.
my latest Dapol purchases, definitely Rule 1s, were 3 cl22s, and although they have not had much in the way of use so far, all survived my running in routine with no problems.
have I just been lucky, or are Dapol slowly getting on top of their quality problems ?
just my experiences / views.

[Newportnobby]

have I just been lucky, or are Dapol slowly getting on top of their quality problems ?

I must admit to not hearing many issues with the class 22 but would still not think Dapol are on top of their game or near it. I still find their locos whine more than anything else I have despite lubricating gears and worm bearings. My 2 class 26s, although good lookers, tend to 'thud' over Peco electrofrog code 55 points which, to me, suggests the back to back may be out slightly as no other locos do that I hardly dare run my 9Fs in case the motion locks up/falls to pieces.
Oh yes - and why does it take about 6 hours of running in before any of my Dapol purchases run remotely as I'd want/expect them to?
I have the class 33, the Schools and the Bulleid Battle of Britain on order and will then decide if they have upped their game.
I'm quite sure if anyone from Dapol reads some of the threads on the forum they would think we've got it in for them but we can't all be telling porkies!

[Cooper]

I have more locos than I dare to count, both Farish and Dapol. I've had no particular issues other than those I've brought on myself (dropped class 31 etc) other than these two issues:

A recently purchased Dapol class 56 had the directional lights stop working in one direction after 10 minutes running in. I phoned Dapol direct as I'd bought it from them at the Diesel and Electric show at Telford, and got a Freepost address. 2nd one arrived within the week and failed with exactly the same problem. Repeated the above and got an assurance that the next replacement would be tested before despatch. I then hit a four week hiatus of year end stock taking, and eventually got one that worked a month later. Lovely model, but could have done without the hassle, even though the local post-mistress is lovely and always has time for a chat!

Farish 08. I've had one lumpy runner to BR lines at least twice and I don't believe it will ever run smooth. My second purchase of one, more in hope than expectation, died within a month of buying it secondhand in a job lot. I need to screw up my courage and learn how to disect them, but I won't buy another!

[Richard G Dallimore]

Just to add insult to injury DCC Supplies do not take calls on a Saturday so I will have to arrange the return on Monday

Very unhelpful considering I am at work all week

I do also note that the loco was sent directly from Dapol based on the sender's label

Really not acceptable customer service

DCC Supplies are a very small family business that also have the right to time off. The reason they don't take calls on weekends is that some weekends they are at exhibitions like Bristol last weekend. Yes I do know them, so yes I will defend their right to a weekend off, as I assume you are having.

Unfortunately if one loco suffers from poor electronics then the chances are the whole production batch might. The boards are mass produced in their 1000 and used in multiply products until used up. Then a new batch will be made and hopefully the design changed. To expect to send one back and get a replacement with redesigned board is unrealistic, especially the way the Chinese factories seem to behave. It appears to me that the Chinese do not follow the addige that the customer is always right and no what they want or think is best.

[Les1952]

To look just at my diesels- and NOT just at Dapol and Farish-

I will repeat that there hasn't really been much to choose between Dapol and Farish when it comes to reliability.  I can depend on my four Type 2s (two Dapol 27 and two Farish 24) to run the whole weekend at a show.  During that time each will clock up over a mile.  ALL have now about ten shows of running with two more in the next six weeks.  My locos have to earn their keep.

I did have a Dapol 26 which failed rather spectacularly at Wigan show in front of a crowd of punters. No problems getting DCC Supplies to fix it, an email got me a post-paid label.  The loco was back in just over a week.

I also bought a new Farish Deltic at the GCR show- lights were fine but the motor was dead. Dealer took it back to Farish's stand with the return form and handed it to a certain Mr Hubbard in person. Said dealer was not best pleased to get the same loco back six weeks later marked "no fault found".... 

One Class 37 had a solder fault on the circuit board that blew decoders, and my Class 20 had a similar fault.  Both had to be sold on as "analogue only" as the fault was not a fault with the chip out.  DCC Supplies will at least look at a loco that has a decoder in it, unlike Bachmann or BR Lines.  All three of my Class 101/108 power cars had the glazing glued to both body and chassis, making it interesting getting the body off to chip them.

I have a Hornby Arnold V200 and a Minitrix V200 both out of service with circuit board failures, a Fleischmann diesel shunter with a loose wheel, another Fleischmann diesel that has taken up smoking despite being too young, and no fewer than four Minitrix Class 111 Bo-Bo electrics in the spares box.  ALL have vastly lower mileages than my four type 2s.

We pay a good deal less for new kit than they do on the Continent.  The makes are not necessarily more reliable- indeed more recently they come from the same factories at nearly twice the price. 

Judging by the sales of seconds at the Dapol Open Days there is a regime of inspecting and testing, certainly in the last two years.  With Farish locos arriving with the boxes surrounded in tissue paper, are they doing this as well?

Les

[Elvinley]

I recently sold a Western special edition on eBay that was then sent back to me with a melted side. Unfortunately I was down £200 because of this as the loco is very rare. I informed Dapol and as usual got an immediate helpful response from Joel. The loco was limited to 200 pieces and neither Dapol or Osbournes had a replacement. I was sent a different Western as replacement along with my loco. When my Western came back it was obvious that the components on one side had got very hot and were blackened, falling apart and had melted the body. I recently sent 2 overheating 22s back to Dapol as well which have been looked at by DCC Supplies but haven't been test run yet since coming back. I find Dapol very helpful but have had many issues with locos over the years. I have also had problems with Farish but this has been a lot more common in the last few years. I tried for ages to get a working WD from the LMR set and in the end found they needed oiling straight away unlike most Farish to get them working smoothly.

[railsquid]

For the inexact statistical record, I have about 45 (eek) locomotives/multiple units purchased new, four of which have been total failures or otherwise unacceptable.

- Dapol Class 52, electrics went poof on the first run
- Farish Class 46, split gear after about a year
- Fleischman DR V100, motor failed after a few laps on the layout
- Kato DE10, ran but motor very growly, lights didn't work, bits fell off easily

Ironically all of the second-hand stock I've bought (excluding the ones bought as non-runners for repair) has been fine.

[Les1952]

I was looking to return it today before the local post office closed

Now I am going to have to use a central London post office always with long queues and lose my lunch hour

If it is a warranty repair contact DCC Supplies BY EMAIL.  They will send you a returns label for the loco, probably on Monday when they get back from whichever show they are attending this weekend.

Take your time packing the loco up.  As it is post paid you shouldn't have to queue at any of the larger post offices unless you want a proof of postage.  The person they have helping out with the machines will take it as a rule.   Either that or post it NEXT Saturday.  In my experience DCC Supplies are a lot faster than Bachmann at getting stuff back to you despite being a much smaller organisation, and they email with progress reports.

Les

[potts]

I have found that buying used Dapol locos off the bay has been better than buying new ones, maybe i have been lucky with the sellers i chose and the locos have had all the niggles sorted.

[PLD]

Interesting conversation with a Trader today.

He said that he can predict exactly which locos will be returned to him as non runners and it is in his opinion mainly the customer.

If he sells the same loco (it doesn't matter what loco or from which manufacturer) to two regular customers he knows Customer X will bring it back and Customer Y won't...

He gave a few examples of regular customers.
Customer A will bring everything back. usually with obvious signs of being dismantled and not reassembled correctly.
Customer B will bring back every steam loco, usually with obvious signs of poor handling mostly mangled valve gear, and in the case of Dapol Tender locos disconnected or lost drive shafts.
Customer C keeps bringing in locos bought from "a large dealer in the South West" for repair.
Customer D doesn't bring anything back but always moans about doing XYZ to his last purchase then buys another regardless!

Now, I'm not saying that all faults are entirely user inflicted, but there is one dealers opinion and he clearly feels that how the customer treats the loco is a significant factor...

Finally, in his experience which manufacturer has the biggest percentage of sales returned?
In N gauge it is Bachmann US, and over all scales, Heljan...