Dear NGF
I have now released the price list for the Nelevators. Thank you for all your input. I have taken all your comment seriously and have tried to accomodate as many of your suggestions as possible. The prices include everything needed to complete the assembly; all track, power supplies. Nut screws and bolts! We,ve had to work hard on the design and with component suppliers to drive cost out and although we haven't been able to achieve our target £600 for the basic kit (+track), we have got very close. In addition, we are offering a discount price for eraly supporters.
We need 50 adopters now to give us the confidence to take the project forward.
Please have a look at the price list on the web site www.nelevation.com (http://www.nelevation.com) . Theres a link in the Order form section.
Thanks again for your support.
Allen
A very impressive, and imaginative, bit of kit Allen. Sadly I don't think of much use to me as my layout is built on top of bookcases and thus I have very little room below track level (about 3" for scenic purposes) but I wish you every success.
Given the cost of pointwork, especially for a 20 road conventional fiddle yard on a continuous run, and the space that takes up, this device of yours seems quite reasonable for price.
However, I would question your advertising, if I may.
The expression "full length trains" - how long is a train? Until the mid 1980s a 'full length' express passenger train in the UK was anything up to 14 coaches (typically about 12/13) and a BG on the end. Given a suitable locomotive, in diesel days a Class 45, 47, 52 or 55 or for steam a Britannia, Castle, A4, Duchess or West Country for examples and your scale 'full length train' could easily be 7'6" long, perhaps a bit more. Goods trains of the era tend to be even longer. Even today enthusiast specials of 12/13 coaches are not unknown.
I've only seen the pictures here but it doesn't look long enough to hold a 'full length train' to me, 8 or 9 coaches (plus loco) at best.
It's a great, space saving idea and I hope it is successful, but do question this aspect of it.
Just how long a train, in feet or inches (or coach lengths) please, will it actually hold?
Best wishes,
Greg.
Quote from: Nelevation on October 01, 2015, 06:16:57 AM
Dear NGF
I have now released the price list for the Nelevators. Thank you for all your input. I have taken all your comment seriously and have tried to accomodate as many of your suggestions as possible. The prices include everything needed to complete the assembly; all track, power supplies. Nut screws and bolts! We,ve had to work hard on the design and with component suppliers to drive cost out and although we haven't been able to achieve our target £600 for the basic kit (+track), we have got very close. In addition, we are offering a discount price for eraly supporters.
We need 50 adopters now to give us the confidence to take the project forward.
Please have a look at the price list on the web site www.nelevation.com (http://www.nelevation.com) . Theres a link in the Order form section.
Thanks again for your support.
Allen
Congratulations Allen.
I know how hard you have worked on this project and tried to keep the cost within the projected figure. I hope that there are sufficient Supporters to ensure the manufacturing begins.
I will be adding my name to the definite list later this morning via the website Order Form.
Great new invention which I look forward to receiving.
All the best. :)
Quote from: Only Me on October 01, 2015, 08:24:15 AM
@D1042 Western Princess (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3445) - Its in the specifications on the website Greg...
Max. Train Length (Short): 914 mm (typical loco + 6 carriages)
Max. Train Length (Medium): 1,371 mm (typical loco + 9 carriages)
Max. Train Length (Long): 1,828 mm (ideal for the new Revolution Pendolino)
Thanks for this, I must have missed it :dunce: :-[ .
As soon as I see a 'metric' I switch off. So at just 9 coaches it's hardly 'a full length main line train' (the branch terminus at Peltin Down holds 9) but still a great invention.
Good luck with it.
Hello Greg,
In Imperial the 3 Nelevator lengths will be 3', 4'6" and 6'0.
Allen wants the Long one to be able to hold full length 9 or 11-car Pendolinos. The Pendolino cars are long vehicles but will be close-coupled. Our estimates are that the 11-car train will be a fraction under 6' long, but until we actually see one coupled up we cannot give an exact measurement.
If you're a steam era enthusiast, or just not familiar with Pendolinos, then this is about the equivalent of a loco and 11-coaches.
I think for most enthusiasts that would qualify as a full length train, and it's a nice, easy to understand description.
The joy of the Nelevator is that its footprint is so small. For those with the length available for longer trains than this then a couple of sidings either side of the Nelevator would give the option of a couple of really long trains to run alongside the 20 6' or less trains it holds.
PS: If you struggle with metric measurements, you can type into Google "1,828mm in feet", or any mm measurement, it gives you the answer immediately.
cheers
Ben A.
Agreed. The small footprint and high capacity will indeed appeal to many modellers.
Quote from: Ben A on October 01, 2015, 08:44:53 AM
Hello Greg,
In Imperial the 3 Nelevator lengths will be 3', 4'6" and 6'0.
If you're a steam era enthusiast, or just not familiar with Pendolinos, then this is about the equivalent of a loco and 11-coaches.
Ben A.
Thanks for that Ben, much easier to understand once in real lengths.
As to the rest 'steam enthusiast' - :censored: >:( :veryangry: :censored:!!!
:D
If you read my 'signature' I think you'll understand!
And it's not a case of not being able to convert :censored: metric to proper measures, but having NO interest in enforced metrication for political reasons in the UK.
I'll say no more on that because I promised not to get political on this site.
Quote from: Bealman on October 01, 2015, 09:16:25 AM
Agreed. The small footprint and high capacity will indeed appeal to many modellers.
Agreed too, Bealman. My only real question is about the longest train it would hold, but that has now been answered.
QuoteAnd it's not a case of not being able to convert :censored: metric to proper measures, but having NO interest in enforced metrication for political reasons in the UK.
Totally agree, of what possible use is a millimetre? :veryangry:
Being a youngster of 53 I was brought up on metric measurements at school in the late 60s and 1970s, but of course living in Britain I had to be bi-numeral.
Imagine my surprise when I entered the Aerospace industry in the 1980s and found everything still in Imperial, even for brand-new aircraft designs.
Lengths are not so tricky, but "slugs" and "poundals" were a revelation; and various types of Ton/Tonne!
Cheers Jon :)
The short version is ideal for me as I am yet to build the fiddle yard. This would both reduce the fiddle yard size allow extension of the scenic area. Only issue is the code 55 track when perhaps an option for a code 80 should offered. Like the price too. :claphappy:
Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on October 01, 2015, 09:22:41 AM
And it's not a case of not being able to convert :censored: metric to proper measures, but having NO interest in enforced metrication for political reasons in the UK.
I'll say no more on that because I promised not to get political on this site.
How is this still a political issue? Does anybody seriously advocate abandoning SI units in science and engineering? Even UKIP aren't that daft!
Cheers, NeMo
My storage yard has been built with (nearly) all sidings being exactly two flexi-lengths of code 55 long, i.e 6ft. It's been built that way because I know that length of siding will accomadate ten Mk1s and a pair of Type 2s.
I think the 6ft version is a good length, Ten or eleven Mk1s and an engine, I;d say is a fair representation of a full length, prototypical train. Many layouts would struggle to run much longer. For my layout, it would be full length. I've certainly rarely seen any layouts running to 14+ on.
None of the above is to devalue Western Princess' comment regarding the symantics, he of course is quite right, 'Full Length' is subjective.
All of the above references to metric vs imperial, mm, etc are totally off topic.
The OP has said what is available.
This is not the thread for a discussion about such issues.
Please address the original post.
Great Work Allen ...
I Have taken the plunge and Put the forum in for a large one ...
Ideal to display the full length pendos from Ben And Mike ...
Great idea for minimum space ...
Cheers
Callum
Quote from: Nelevation on October 01, 2015, 06:16:57 AM
Dear NGF
I have now released the price list for the Nelevators. Thank you for all your input. I have taken all your comment seriously and have tried to accomodate as many of your suggestions as possible. The prices include everything needed to complete the assembly; all track, power supplies. Nut screws and bolts! We,ve had to work hard on the design and with component suppliers to drive cost out and although we haven't been able to achieve our target £600 for the basic kit (+track), we have got very close. In addition, we are offering a discount price for eraly supporters.
We need 50 adopters now to give us the confidence to take the project forward.
Please have a look at the price list on the web site www.nelevation.com (http://www.nelevation.com) . Theres a link in the Order form section.
Thanks again for your support.
Allen
"Dear Mum, Sister, Brother, Neighbours, Homeless man, Prime Minister and of course Santa/Father Christmas (Most important).....
For Christmas this year I would like 2 of these. I know it is a lot to ask so I am willing to compromise and accept medium length instead of long. Do not fail me!"
Am I the only person already picturing the use of one just to store extra stock like on a long length Freight train? The benefit for someone like myself where I have length but not much width (make of that what you will) means good length "fiddle yard" area and still good curves where as currently I have 1 full length and more shorter tracks.
Having grown up in the UK then lived in the metric world since I was 18, the only time I ever feel the need to use the old money is when thinking about longer distances in the UK, which only feel right in miles.
Anyway for me a full-length train is 62 cm, or a 4-car Shinkansen, or loco + three as coaches (four if I'm feeling adventurous). I could conceivably have a layout which could run much longer trains, but as I want more than one station, shorter works better.
Unfortunately, while I have (or am planning) a storage yard which would benefit from something like this, I'd need the unit to be mostly below the baseboard, as the storage yard will be directly beneath an existing section of layout and only has about 100mm of "headroom". I've no idea if that would be mechanically feasible.
Quote from: railsquid on October 01, 2015, 04:07:11 PM
Unfortunately, while I have (or am planning) a storage yard which would benefit from something like this, I'd need the unit to be mostly below the baseboard, as the storage yard will be directly beneath an existing section of layout and only has about 100mm of "headroom". I've no idea if that would be mechanically feasible.
The design sounds as if potentially it could be altered to suit your needs, Squiddy.
Currently 6/11ths is below baseboard level with 5/11ths above but providing your baseboard construction would support the extra weight distribution below maybe Allen could confirm if the 'exit line' from the Nelevation could be amended to be the 1st or even 2nd road :hmmm:
Quote from: newportnobby on October 01, 2015, 04:22:43 PM
Quote from: railsquid on October 01, 2015, 04:07:11 PM
Unfortunately, while I have (or am planning) a storage yard which would benefit from something like this, I'd need the unit to be mostly below the baseboard, as the storage yard will be directly beneath an existing section of layout and only has about 100mm of "headroom". I've no idea if that would be mechanically feasible.
The design sounds as if potentially it could be altered to suit your needs, Squiddy.
Currently 6/11ths is below baseboard level with 5/11ths above but providing your baseboard construction would support the extra weight distribution below maybe Allen could confirm if the 'exit line' from the Nelevation could be amended to be the 1st or even 2nd road :hmmm:
Don't forget that the bottom storage line has got to get to the 'exit' level, so I don't think there is much scope to shave anything off the top or bottom unless you cut down on the number of levels.
Time to start saving for me! :laugh:
Quote from: Ian Morton on October 01, 2015, 05:36:00 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on October 01, 2015, 04:22:43 PM
Quote from: railsquid on October 01, 2015, 04:07:11 PM
Unfortunately, while I have (or am planning) a storage yard which would benefit from something like this, I'd need the unit to be mostly below the baseboard, as the storage yard will be directly beneath an existing section of layout and only has about 100mm of "headroom". I've no idea if that would be mechanically feasible.
The design sounds as if potentially it could be altered to suit your needs, Squiddy.
Currently 6/11ths is below baseboard level with 5/11ths above but providing your baseboard construction would support the extra weight distribution below maybe Allen could confirm if the 'exit line' from the Nelevation could be amended to be the 1st or even 2nd road :hmmm:
Don't forget that the bottom storage line has got to get to the 'exit' level, so I don't think there is much scope to shave anything off the top or bottom unless you cut down on the number of levels.
I think the solution would need to be similar to a paternoster-style lift, with the exit at the top.
Just requested a large one. :thumbsup:
So glad to see this project kick off it has transformed my layout plans, will be selling a huge number of turnouts and motors now :D
Mines a large one!
I can't make up my mind which way to go my current layout would suite a medium one but my next project would gain from a large one, but this new project is about 2 years down the line. :hmmm:
Quote from: Ditape on October 02, 2015, 02:35:12 PM
I can't make up my mind which way to go my current layout would suite a medium one but my next project would gain from a large one, but this new project is about 2 years down the line. :hmmm:
Well, you won't get one until the middle of next year so that would give it a pretty short residence on the current layout.
Quote from: railsquid on October 02, 2015, 12:47:53 AMI think the solution would need to be similar to a paternoster-style lift,
That is what I thought it was when I first saw it !
But instead it is a (two) vertically mounted traverser (s side-by-side) with a cunning belt + shelves construction instead of a baseboard ? ??
Quote
with the exit at the top.
umm anywhere ? bottom, up or down either side for this application, which would be a start/stop motion.
I think the paternoster entry/exit is simplest at the top cos then it is easier to make a continuous lift where the passengers can more easily step on and off ? (something like that, long time since I came across them ! )
Wrong ! I must be mistaking with something else, cos according to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternoster
" Passengers can step on or off at any floor they like"
Quote from: MalcolmAL on October 02, 2015, 03:23:56 PM
Quote from: railsquid on October 02, 2015, 12:47:53 AMI think the solution would need to be similar to a paternoster-style lift,
That is what I thought it was when I first saw it !
But instead it is a (two) vertically mounted traverser (s side-by-side) with a cunning belt + shelves construction instead of a baseboard ? ??
Quote
with the exit at the top.
umm anywhere ? bottom, up or down either side for this application, which would be a start/stop motion.
Yeah, well anywhere I guess, in my case the top is the only logical place (and for anyone else who needs a largely below-baseboard solution).
Anyway, if feasible that would presumably require completely different design, tooling etc. so not getting my hopes up.
Quote from: cutting42 on October 02, 2015, 02:04:45 PM
So glad to see this project kick off it has transformed my layout plans, will be selling a huge number of turnouts and motors now :D
Mines a large one!
And me, I have a load of points , motors and DCC decoders surplus so not sure if to sell or keep for a huge layout in the future., :D
Quote from: railsquid on October 02, 2015, 04:03:54 PM
Quote from: MalcolmAL on October 02, 2015, 03:23:56 PM
Quote from: railsquid on October 02, 2015, 12:47:53 AMI think the solution would need to be similar to a paternoster-style lift,
That is what I thought it was when I first saw it !
But instead it is a (two) vertically mounted traverser (s side-by-side) with a cunning belt + shelves construction instead of a baseboard ? ??
Quote
with the exit at the top.
umm anywhere ? bottom, up or down either side for this application, which would be a start/stop motion.
Yeah, well anywhere I guess, in my case the top is the only logical place (and for anyone else who needs a largely below-baseboard solution).
Anyway, if feasible that would presumably require completely different design, tooling etc. so not getting my hopes up.
As coincidence had it, this popped up on my Youtube feed (which is entirely separate from the browser I'm typing this in):
http://youtu.be/fZOsnZ_V10A?t=3m6s (http://youtu.be/fZOsnZ_V10A?t=3m6s)
(3:04 onwards)
This thread is to do with the Nelevator, the off topic Imperial vs Metric posts have been removed and are now in their own thread at http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=29852.msg336551#msg336551. (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=29852.msg336551#msg336551.)
Glad to be able to submit my order, if only I had a bigger house!
Quote from: Caz on October 03, 2015, 09:38:09 AM
This thread is to do with the Nelevator, the off topic Imperial vs Metric posts have been removed and are now in their own thread at http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=29852.msg336551#msg336551. (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=29852.msg336551#msg336551.)
Thanks Caz. :thankyousign:
Gutted, just spent all day thinking about getting a Nelevation only to realise tonight that half of the height is below the baseboard which will not work my railway room - back to the old fashion fiddle yard. :(
Quote from: simong on October 03, 2015, 10:04:03 PM
Gutted, just spent all day thinking about getting a Nelevation only to realise tonight that half of the height is below the baseboard which will not work my railway room - back to the old fashion fiddle yard. :(
Almost all the height is down there if you are working off the top track set... And the same above when you are working off the bottom set..... All plus any of the frame and mechanism that needs to be added.....
Quote from: simong on October 03, 2015, 10:04:03 PM
Gutted, just spent all day thinking about getting a Nelevation only to realise tonight that half of the height is below the baseboard which will not work my railway room - back to the old fashion fiddle yard. :(
Yes, sorry about this. The system does need 500mm below and above the baseboard level to gain access to top and bottom tracks.
Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on October 01, 2015, 08:15:09 AM
A very impressive, and imaginative, bit of kit Allen. Sadly I don't think of much use to me as my layout is built on top of bookcases and thus I have very little room below track level (about 3" for scenic purposes) but I wish you every success.
Given the cost of pointwork, especially for a 20 road conventional fiddle yard on a continuous run, and the space that takes up, this device of yours seems quite reasonable for price.
However, I would question your advertising, if I may.
The expression "full length trains" - how long is a train? Until the mid 1980s a 'full length' express passenger train in the UK was anything up to 14 coaches (typically about 12/13) and a BG on the end. Given a suitable locomotive, in diesel days a Class 45, 47, 52 or 55 or for steam a Britannia, Castle, A4, Duchess or West Country for examples and your scale 'full length train' could easily be 7'6" long, perhaps a bit more. Goods trains of the era tend to be even longer. Even today enthusiast specials of 12/13 coaches are not unknown.
I've only seen the pictures here but it doesn't look long enough to hold a 'full length train' to me, 8 or 9 coaches (plus loco) at best.
It's a great, space saving idea and I hope it is successful, but do question this aspect of it.
Just how long a train, in feet or inches (or coach lengths) please, will it actually hold?
Best wishes,
Greg.
Hi Greg. I kicked myself when I read this. On all our show handouts and posters I changed the wording a while back to read "realistic length trains" as I agree with you. A full length train is a silly description. I hadn't noticed I'm still using "full length" on our homepage. I'll change it. It can store up to 200 full length, single car, rail buses though! Tee hee. As long as the total weight is less than 12kg. Oops, sorry 26 an a arf pounds . Cheers Allen
Quote from: Nelevation on October 04, 2015, 08:52:29 AM
Yes, sorry about this. The system does need 500mm below and above the baseboard level to gain access to top and bottom tracks.
:thumbsup:
Unless we distinguish between the baseboard and THE Baseboard :) >
If it's little baseboard sat upon a 500mm hill atop THE Baseboard ? fed by a very long incline or a helix ? the bottom 500mm would unfortunately then be hidden inside the hill, but hey, cant have everything. Or of course the whole thing could be in the non-scenic fiddle area.
Thus the whole lot would be 0 to 1m above The Main Baseboard.
QED.
Now I'll retire to a darkened corner and have a panic attack over the thought of 200 railbuses :laugh:
:laughabovepost:
Quote from: Nelevation on October 04, 2015, 09:06:55 AM
up to 200 full length, single car, rail buses though! Tee hee. As long as the total weight is less than 12kg. Oops, sorry 26 an a arf pounds .
Now I'll retire to a darkened corner and have a panic attack over the thought of 200 railbuses :laugh:
:laughabovepost:
Quote from: Nelevation on October 04, 2015, 09:06:55 AM
up to 200 full length, single car, rail buses though! Tee hee. As long as the total weight is less than 12kg. Oops, sorry 26 an a arf pounds .
[/quote]
Took the words right out of my mouth!
Quote from: MalcolmAL on October 04, 2015, 12:36:28 PMfed by a very long incline or a helix ?
Afterthought :
or by a miniNelevation ! that takes just one train and moves it betwixt the 0 and 500mm levels.
QED2 !
I'll be round to collect my consultancy later ;D
and 'scuse me quoting myself :)
Duh, thanks
But seriously - what am I missing - why can the exit level not be near the bottom ( for a 'stand above' elevator) or near the top ( for a 'hang below' one) ? - to Only Me.
Quote from: Only Me on October 04, 2015, 01:41:42 PM
Ah malc, if only you were sober .. ;)
He he!
Ummmm :) I've not (yet !) touched a drop :)
Ah that's the problem, I need a drink :smiley-laughing:
Edit
Ok thanks I have struck out the silly bit !
I'll now go and chastise myself :) (in a darkened corner ! )
So, after unscrambling my brain cell,, I realise my error arose from being still wrapped up in the paternoster variation !
( when is the Mk2 paternoster variation to be released ? lol !)
But the mini elevator could (I think !!?) all be (mostly, apart from maybe a leaver or a pully) above baseboard cos that only needs to lift one track from 0 to 500mm ??
( or two of them side by side if close to the Nelevatior itself )
Quote from: Only Me on October 04, 2015, 01:41:42 PM
Ah malc, if only you were sober drunk .. ;)
Picture if you will ten levels each with a train in... For the level at the bottom to reach the top exit you would like, the other nine levels above would have to go somewhere first... Eg above the level you want to exit at the top!! Thus it wouldnt work, i dont understand the physicals but if you had a lid on the top above the exit you would crush the nine levels above before your bottom train could depart... Would become pretty expensive and possibly single use :D
He he!
You guys have beaten me. Mines a Wee glass of Rioja please. Lights off. Goodnight.
Quote from: Nelevation on October 04, 2015, 05:29:38 PM
Quote from: Only Me on October 04, 2015, 01:41:42 PM
Ah malc, if only you were sober drunk .. ;)
Picture if you will ten levels each with a train in... For the level at the bottom to reach the top exit you would like, the other nine levels above would have to go somewhere first... Eg above the level you want to exit at the top!! Thus it wouldnt work, i dont understand the physicals but if you had a lid on the top above the exit you would crush the nine levels above before your bottom train could depart... Would become pretty expensive and possibly single use :D
He he!
You guys have beaten me. Mines a Wee glass of Rioja please. Lights off. Goodnight.
I've just had a really great idea chaps. If you bought loads and loads of track and loads of points and laid them out in parallel lanes on one plane. It would solve all problems and probably save the world from certain oblivion. Pass the wine!
Quote from: Nelevation on October 04, 2015, 05:52:39 PM
Quote from: Nelevation on October 04, 2015, 05:29:38 PM
Quote from: Only Me on October 04, 2015, 01:41:42 PM
Ah malc, if only you were sober drunk .. ;)
Picture if you will ten levels each with a train in... For the level at the bottom to reach the top exit you would like, the other nine levels above would have to go somewhere first... Eg above the level you want to exit at the top!! Thus it wouldnt work, i dont understand the physicals but if you had a lid on the top above the exit you would crush the nine levels above before your bottom train could depart... Would become pretty expensive and possibly single use :D
He he!
You guys have beaten me. Mines a Wee glass of Rioja please. Lights off. Goodnight.
I've just had a really great idea chaps. If you bought loads and loads of track and loads of points and laid them out in parallel lanes on one plane. It would solve all problems and probably save the world from certain oblivion. Pass the wine!
With the amount of wine being consumed such an idea would have to be christened a Piddle Yard :laugh:
http://ro-ro.net/ (http://ro-ro.net/)
Another chance to see Nelevator in action at Warley this weekend albeit minus the great demonstration layout due to space restrictions. Get your orders placed as this is nearly at the starting gate, eight more sales and it makes reality!