Individual Companies or British Rail?

[Tank]

 

[m1racleman]

I voted YES but only if they go back to STEAM
   

[Dock Shunter]

I voted yes as long as we don't go back to the pork pies and sandwiches 

                     

[EtchedPixels]

I don't really care whether its nationalised or not so long as the politicians keep their fat dabbling fingers out of it and don't chop it up in bizarre ways. Japan seems to make it work with a mix of nationalised and public services.

It also needs to be in chunks where for the most part one body is responsible for the mess instead of the current approach where millions is spent pushing blame around the system to figure out who pays what fees where and the passengers get fobbed off entirely.

[Lawrence]

I don't really care whether its nationalised or not so long as the politicians keep their fat dabbling fingers out of it and don't chop it up in bizarre ways. Japan seems to make it work with a mix of nationalised and public services.

Au contraire young man    The Japanese railway system is, and has been for decades, in huge debt partly from a catalogue of mismanagement.  I have a book on the history of the Japanese railways, no pictures, but lots of facts and figures and some of the numbers would scare the hell out of you 

The the planned 550 km Chuo Shinkansen maglev line between Tokyo and Osaka was given the go ahead in May this year, the cost is initially estimated at Y9000000000000 or £69,492,670,245 (nearly £70 billion to you and me).

It is a very complex history and I am amazed how, having read part of the book, despite the massive debt incurred over the decades, they keep getting leant money, not only from the Government but from the private sector too.

[EtchedPixels]

You mean like our road network does ... infrastructure doesn't have to be profitable, it has to make the nation as a whole better off.

Its a symptom of the problem in the UK that railways are 'subsidized' and roads are 'invested in'

Alan

[m1racleman]

Yeah!! Anyway, back to nationalisation or not !!

[michael]

I prefer the name British Rail and like the idea of one national company but I think I would miss the variaty of liverys.

[tadpole]

Overall, I think I'd like BR PLC, owned by you and me, and "Sid" of course.

This would enable the spirit of free enterprise, while maintaining a proper joined-up network with joined-up management and incentives, economies of scale. The arguments against doing this at the time were:
- no single company could afford to buy it (did it have to be owned by a company? rather than individual shareholders?).
- the infrastructure had to be separated from the trains - it's the law, guv.

[m1racleman]

Overall, I think I'd like BR PLC, owned by you and me, and "Sid" of course.

This would enable the spirit of free enterprise, while maintaining a proper joined-up network with joined-up management and incentives, economies of scale.

What a pity the present bosses can't do joined up writing !

[bluedepot]

they should also re-establish BREL and nationalise bombardier in derby, and actually design and build our trains again.... and gain export orders as well...

[Adam1701D]

If we could get an operating model similar to the late 80s BR with different sectors, fully responsible for their own stations, stock and infrastructure, so much more could be done with the billions that the taxpayer is throwing at these wasteful private companies.

The Major government made no secret that it was only interested in making money by creating all these companies and selling bits to the banks, bus operators, etc, and no thought was given to long-tern operational costs or value for money.

Sorry for the rant, it's a bit of a sore point for me - I worked for BR (Intercity East Coast), during the glory days of the late 80s and early 90s - massive electrification projects, new rolling stock coming from UK train plants like sausages out of a machine, and all with minimal government subsidy. I don't have much good to say about Mrs Thatcher but at least she had the good sense to leave the railways alone (some more money would have been nice). The idiots who followed her from both sides of the house have done their best to wreck the railways and this country.

[longbridge]

I would love to see railways nationalized again but one may as well believe in pixies at the bottom of their garden cause it just wont happen.

[OwL]

If we could get an operating model similar to the late 80s BR with different sectors, fully responsible for their own stations, stock and infrastructure, so much more could be done with the billions that the taxpayer is throwing at these wasteful private companies.

The Major government made no secret that it was only interested in making money by creating all these companies and selling bits to the banks, bus operators, etc, and no thought was given to long-tern operational costs or value for money.

Sorry for the rant, it's a bit of a sore point for me - I worked for BR (Intercity East Coast), during the glory days of the late 80s and early 90s - massive electrification projects, new rolling stock coming from UK train plants like sausages out of a machine, and all with minimal government subsidy. I don't have much good to say about Mrs Thatcher but at least she had the good sense to leave the railways alone (some more money would have been nice). The idiots who followed her from both sides of the house have done their best to wreck the railways and this country.

I too was going to write an essay on this issue but Captain E has read my thoughts, and said it for me. 100% my feelings on this issue, I would also add that sectorisation was the best thing for BR, it created a business within a business, thus breading competition and better results. It was not given enough time to succed before being sold off to the like of Wisconsin Central and Mr Ed Burkhardt (freight) and multiple foreign passenger TOC's (mainly SNCF/DB controlled/owned)

[moogle]

Depends on if its freight or passenger.
There seems to be more freight on the railways since privatization, so surely thats a good thing.
Passengers on the other hand get a very raw deal.

Connections not held by different companies so you end up waiting for the next one.
(Not much fun on a cold station when the next one is an hour's time as anyone who's missed the connection at Warrington for Chester will know!)
Vastly inflated ticket prices to keep the shareholders happy. (Commuters on South Eastern know this only too well!)
And tickets not valid on one companies service even though it starts where you are and goes to where you're going!

So for freight I'd say stay private but for passengers I'd say "Bring back British Rail, all is forgiven!"