Cost of N Gauge Models in Context

[Rabbitaway]

Yes, the helicopter is value for money based on the quality of manufacture and entertainment flying it

We have bought a mini helicopter in the past for similar money but it was not a patch on the quality and flying ability of the Syma, my daughter I and used fly this old model numerous times until after too many crashes it became damaged, therefore the replacement Syma after checking out reviews

We seem to have gone down a rabbit hole about the point of the post which is about the quality of the product and entertainment for your money as an observation not a criticism of the choice of n gauge as a hobby

As I said this is a lighthearted "look how good this is for the money" post compared to what we pay for n gauge

My posts did not argue with the economics of n gauge production

[emjaybee]

I love the Brio Mallard, it may be a wooden toy, but it's modelled on a real loco rather than a stylised generic impression, and it's the kind of thing that leads children into the rabbit hole of asking questions and hopefully getting interested in the real thing.

I love the helicopter too, just for clarity. I have a few 'foamy' RC aircraft. They have a tiny Lithium Polymer battery, so have a fly time of 6/7 minutes at best, but they look the part and fly quite well. At a price of £45 each, plus the transmitter at about £75 they're a huge amount of fun for not big bucks. Considering that 20yrs ago a RC plane that looked like that would cost you £300/£400/£500+ I consider them good value for money.

I also have City of Bradford which cost £90 new, a Fowler for £60 new, and a Royal Scot for £70 new all in the last few years, I also consider these good value.

It's about balancing enjoyment with expenditure with longevity, as others have said.

Horses for courses.

[Bingley Hall]

Yes, the helicopter is value for money based on the quality of manufacture and entertainment flying it

We have bought a mini helicopter in the past for similar money but it was not a patch on the quality and flying ability of the Syma, my daughter I and used fly this old model numerous times until after too many crashes it became damaged, therefore the replacement Syma after checking out reviews

We seem to have gone down a rabbit hole about the point of the post which is about the quality of the product and entertainment for your money as an observation not a criticism of the choice of n gauge as a hobby

As I said this is a lighthearted "look how good this is for the money" post compared to what we pay for n gauge

My posts did not argue with the economics of n gauge production

I think maybe if the word 'rhetorical' could have been inserted into the original post to deter some of the responses.

The reality is, we all know how expensive N gauge is. Those that have a grip on the real world know nothing can be done about it. And yes there will always be better examples of value for money.

Discussion is redundant

[railsquid]

I still don't get the point of this post - "Let's compare random specific example of Hobby A with Hobby B in general"?

Cool, you can get a nice little RC helicopter "toy" for want of a better word (I know little about helicopters but it doesn't look like a realistic scale rendering of an actual prototype) for say a sixth of a cost of a British outline N gauge locomotive.

And, so what?

Mystified.

[Chris Morris]

I agree with others, all the opening post says is that very high volume products designed to be mass produced with minimal human assembly work are a lot cheaper to make than low volume items with lots of little bits that need to be assembled. If every British outline N gauge loco sold in millions per year they might only cost £20 each and production quality would be much more consistent (although I'm happy with current quality levels). 

The tooling for that helicopter probably cost less than the tooling for a loco (circa £100k) but the cost is divided over hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of units. The cost of tooling for a loco is over a few thousand units. It could well be that a model like the Dapol class 50 won't start to provide a return on investment until the second run. Small batch sizes are another big cost. Whether you are producing 100 or 1,000,000 you still have to source all the components that you buy in, schedule production of all the components that you make in house, get the tools to make these parts out of store and fitted into the machines for mouldings and return them to store afterwards. During fitting, testing and removing of tools the moulding machines aren't earning money so the cost of idle machines is part of the batch set up cost. You have to book a slot with the assembly area and have all of the instructions and any jigs ready at the right time. All of this requires quite a lot of various employee's time at both the factory and the UK company requesting a batch run and therefore creates lots of costs. These costs don't really vary much with volume but the factory has to charge them to the production run which obviously affects the piece price. So again you have a reasonable sized set up cost being shared by a very small run in the case of N gauge locos. Based on this it is easy to see why UK 00 locos are similar in price to N and why US locos of all scales tend to be cheaper. Also why 0 gauge tend to be more expensive. The cost of the plastic used to make a body is close to insignificant whether it be N, 00 or even 0. The cost of getting to the point where you can make a relatively small number is very significant.

[Chris Morris]

If comparing the cost of hobbies
A decent mountain bike will cost at least a couple of grand. I have seen a rather nice Specialized ebike MTB for sale at £9,999. You could buy a lot of locos for that money! Also things wear out so you need to keep spending on replacement parts.
You can buy cheap fishing rods but many folk pay over £500. A Browning EXO Sphere Zero-G F1+ Set 17m will set you back over £5k
Skis can cost you anything from just over £100 to many thousands, then you have to buy the rest of the necessary gear and be able to afford to go somewhere where there is snow.
Restoring classic cars is just a money pit.
Even for a simple pleasure such as painting a decent canvas will set you back north of £50 - and you have to paint it yourself!

Our way of spending time is probably still a relatively cheap compared to many others.

[njee20]

You can buy a pint of milk for 50p. Yet a house can cost over £1m. Makes you think, doesn't it?

The ongoing spend for me for me is a big part of the 'value' of model railways as a hobby. Once you have your layout and stock (which can be an oval of set track, a loco and three wagons) that's it. No more ongoing costs, basically. As Chris calls out the cycling example is a good one; if you buy a 'cheap' mountain bike, for say £1,000, and expect to use it year round it's not unlikely that you'll have a couple of hundred pounds of maintenance bills every year, and that scales with the initial purchase price. I get there's a very small cost of servicing a large fleet of locos, but it is vanishingly small in the greater scheme of things.

[Bealman]

I think this is a completely pointless thread.

However, it is a forum, and it's keeping folks occupied during lockdown, I guess 

[woodbury22uk]

A more appropriate topic title might be "Cost of N gauge models out of context". But it has entertained me while enjoying a cup of expensive, but good value, coffee, using water heated by solar electricity, and served in a sustainable bamboo cup, whilst I have kept an eye on the garden birds squabbling over one particular piece of food, when there is plenty of other equivalent food around them.

[emjaybee]

I think this is a completely pointless thread.

However, it is a forum, and it's keeping folks occupied during lockdown, I guess 

See, he gets it.

It's a conversation you'd have down the pub with your mates.

Irrelevant, pointless, meaningless, inconclusive.

Next!

[Bealman]

Thanks for the reminder! NSW government announced tonight that pubs and clubs are open again from June 1st. 

[emjaybee]

Thanks for the reminder! NSW government announced tonight that pubs and clubs are open again from June 1st. 

Like you needed a reminder!

[Newportnobby]

Thanks for the reminder! NSW government announced tonight that pubs and clubs are open again from June 1st. 

Nothing to do with the brewery slowly going bust while you're not able to get to the club, then?

Back on topic, it's interesting to see the cost of other hobbies compared to model railways. My other hobby is a 650cc Kawasaki which cost me almost as much as my N gauge motive power and gets used far less as I'm a fair weather biker.
The problem is, as discussed many times before on the forum, we had it too good for too long and are now paying a true market price. I still fail to see, speaking personally, how Farish coaches are almost double the cost of Dapol ones as they're not that much better but that's another debate.

[exmouthcraig]

It's the same as the stupid Aldi / Lidl shop comparison with Tesco.

Fill a trolley full of their OWN BRAND and tell you it cost £35 fill a trolley of BRANDS at tesco and say it costs £130

YES BECAUSE IM BUYING BRANDED STUFF THAT TASTES NIICE NOT SOME CHEAP FOREIGN JUNK EQUIVALENT.

And as for the stupid argument "they taste the same" I just wont buy it.

I had the same discussion with a good customer with my Roofing company, he was adamant his shopping was "the same" I made my point about Lurpak butter is better then their Lurpik shoddy rip off equivalent.

I offered him a Tesco repair using proper Lead for £150 or his Aldi equivalent using Tin Foil for 50p. They look the same but they are A MILLION POLES APART.

I had one of these helicopters, my folks bought it me as a stocking filler for Christmas, yeah their well built, silly little motors on tiny wire frames and a perspex body over the top, must take 20mins to put together and even if you have the patience to learn to fly the damn thing you'll be bored of it before the battery runs out.

[NinOz]

Strange thread.
One thing about trains is you don't expect them to crash from a height and be re-kitted, well at least I don't.  Flying things will eventually crash.
Unfortunately RC aircraft robustness is inversely related to quality of scale-ness.
A reasonable scale RC plug-and-play foam model costs me about $400 to $800 (loco about $250) and may not survive the first take off, let alone flight, and they don't offer you your money back or accept it for warranty replacement.
For the enjoyment/usage lifetime of a loco or rolling stock I would probably wreck or burn-out a dozen or more of the little contra-rotating helicopters.