N Gauge Forum

I thought it might be interesting to know how many of us model each Era. These were unilaterally defined by Bachmann as follows:

Era 1: Pioneering, 1804 - 1875
Era 2: Pre-Grouping, 1875 - 1922
Era 3: Big 4, 1923 - 1947
Era 4: British Railways, early emblem, 1948 - 1956
Era 5: British Railways, late emblem, 1957 - 1966
Era 6: British Railways blue, pre TOPS, 1967 - 1971
Era 7: British Railways blue, TOPS era, 1972 - 1982
Era 8: British Railways, sectorisation, 1983 - 1994
Era 9: post privatization, 1995 onwards

I appreciate that these eras are exclusively geared to the British-outline modeler, and may not suit those who model the overseas prototype. But I have allowed you up to five votes each, to cater for those who model more than one era, so if you model an overseas epoch which doesn't map precisely onto these eras, you can cast as many vote as you need to cover the period which you do actually model.

[smg id=28142 type=full align=center caption="Model Railway Rules"]

Those who do not model any particular era shall be deemed to have voted for all eras. Since these votes cancel out, they obviously do not need actually to be cast ...

Voted according to my core interest.

Quote from: railsquid on August 14, 2015, 12:45:23 PM
Voted according to my core interest.

Wot he said ;)

Although depending on how I feel I may have a running session with post-WW2, pre-nationalisation stock or anything up to current-ish stock but my main interest is BR from the 1950s to 1970s.

1994-1998 for me. So Era 8 & 9 covers me.

Cheers, Anthony

Can I edit my vote? I didn't realise until too late that I can vote for two if my interests bridge 2 epochs. I voted for Era 5 1957-66 but would also have included Era 4 if I had realised.

Roy

Had to put 7 and 8
The majority is Era 8, with Large Logo Blue and InterCity / ScotRail
However, I have some BR Blue items that sneek in (just like they still did in the 1990s)

I had to vote era 3 but from my point of view the Southern in Era3 can be subdivided into 3 main periods, 1923 to the renumbering around 1930, 1931 - early 1938, then the Bulleid years with Malachite (yeuk) and wartime black.

I stick with the middle period quite a few Adams and Drummond classes still about and the Urie & Maunsell 4-6-0s much in evidence.  Electrification hadn't reached my area and no diesels apart from a few early shunters also not in this neck of the woods.

Might be worth amending the thread title to What British Era do you model?  ;)

Voted 8 and 9 as I own only 1 piece is stick outside that and that may not run  :hmmm:

Not yet relavent I suppose, but I find myself wondering how long it will be before "Era 10" is needed and under what circumstances?

Skyline2uk

I voted Era5 along with several others. It would be interesting to know the ages of those who voted for each era.
I suggest that many who voted for era 5 and lower would be aged over 55.

Quote from: port perran on August 14, 2015, 04:13:11 PM
I voted Era5 along with several others. It would be interesting to know the ages of those who voted for each era.
I suggest that many who voted for era 5 and lower would be aged over 55.

I suspect those born in the 1940's and 1950's would still have fond memories of the Era 4 and 5 locos and rolling stock and switch off when they see anything other than a kettle or green diesel!
All my stuff is mostly era 5 with a few bits of era 4. I might be tempted to acquire some older kettles but I'm afraid all the modern stuff leaves me cold.
:beers:

I ended up voting for the following ERA's

3         - Because I like and started with the immediate pre war GWR Shirtbutto period

4 & 5   - Gives me more kettles to play with plus the odd diesel

8.        - My arthritic hands do less damage to diesels

The scenic side of things doesn't have to change much for ERA 3-5 so that's a bonus, but when I run ERA 8 if probably the opposite of a Heritage railway and becomes a FUTURE railway.

Ray

Quote from: Skyline2uk on August 14, 2015, 04:07:02 PM
Voted 8 and 9 as I own only 1 piece is stick outside that and that may not run  :hmmm:

Not yet relavent I suppose, but I find myself wondering how long it will be before "Era 10" is needed and under what circumstances?

Skyline2uk

Already well overdue I think - all the original passenger franchises are gone, DB Shencker has arrived.....already lasted twice as long as eras 5,6,7 and 8.

Cheers  Jon  :)

7.

Corresponds more or less exactly with my daily-trip-to-school-train-travelling.

Although technically, I don't model anything, having bought RTR stock & not having a layout yet.

Quote from: port perran on August 14, 2015, 04:13:11 PM.
I suggest that many who voted for era 5 and lower would be aged over 55.

What a stereotypical statement that is !!!  Just because someone is over 55 doesn't mean they go for Eras 1-5, and neither does it mean those under 55 go for Eras 6-onwards !

Age-wise I fit into your latter category (BR Blue was the rage in my youth), but Era-wise it's 3 for me ...  And I suspect many others are the same (not the Era, but not following your statement)

As one who models an  'overseas' railway, I have voted according to the era.

The final results will be interesting. 

Voted according to what I have purchased so far....

Quote from: MikeDunn on August 14, 2015, 07:59:42 PM

Quote from: port perran on August 14, 2015, 04:13:11 PM.
I suggest that many who voted for era 5 and lower would be aged over 55.

What a stereotypical statement that is !!!  Just because someone is over 55 doesn't mean they go for Eras 1-5, and neither does it mean those under 55 go for Eras 6-onwards !

Age-wise I fit into your latter category (BR Blue was the rage in my youth), but Era-wise it's 3 for me ...  And I suspect many others are the same (not the Era, but not following your statement)

Port Perran did say 'many would be over the age 55' and not 'all' I think what he says is probably largely true. It certainly is of the N gauge colleagues I know.
:beers:

BR blue Western Region diesels for me...although I have slipped in odd Era 8 liveries and the odd rogue loco that doesn't really fit like a blue Deltic....reflects my spotting times and is my way of turning the clock back....strangely enough I am thinking of moving on my Deltic and sector liveried locos as I still prefer seeing my rakes pulled by a BR blue loco...the other thing for me is that other than the Westerns and a tiny number of peaks all the locos in my spotting days had been converted to full TOP codes...I could not run a peak with a D number much preferring 45 or 46xxx.....as again it doesn't look right to me !

Quote from: sparky on August 15, 2015, 09:09:08 AM
BR blue Western Region diesels for me...although I have slipped in odd Era 8 liveries and the odd rogue loco that doesn't really fit like a blue Deltic....reflects my spotting times and is my way of turning the clock back....strangely enough I am thinking of moving on my Deltic and sector liveried locos as I still prefer seeing my rakes pulled by a BR blue loco...the other thing for me is that other than the Westerns and a tiny number of peaks all the locos in my spotting days had been converted to full TOP codes...I could not run a peak with a D number much preferring 45 or 46xxx.....as again it doesn't look right to me !

Well I will have a look if and when you see you sector fleet, triple grey will always have a home with me  :thumbsup:

Skyline2uk

 :hellosign:
Era 8 and 9.....steamers and old diesels used only for heritage/gala trains on my layout..and emergency..!
:NGF:

Cheers from Narnia

Marco

Quote from: austinbob on August 15, 2015, 08:17:46 AM
Port Perran did say 'many would be over the age 55' and not 'all' I think what he says is probably largely true.

A spot of research brings this up :

Quote
Stereotypes lead people to expect certain actions from members of social groups. These stereotype-based expectations may lead to self-fulfilling prophecies, in which one's inaccurate expectations about a person's behavior, through social interaction, prompt that person to act in stereotype-consistent ways, thus confirming one's erroneous expectations and validating the stereotype

Hence my objection to the stereotypical labelling.  It's bad enough that those not in the hobby, as well as some of the magazines, spout this crap without our own labelling us badly too  :worried:

Mike

[Kassin, Saul M.; Fein, Steven; Markus, Hazel Rose (2011). Social psychology (8th ed.). Belmont, CA: Wadsworth, Cengage Learning . p. 172. ISBN  978-0-495-81240-1 .

Brown, Rupert (2010). Prejudice: Its Social Psychology (2nd ed.). Oxford: Wiley-Blackwell. pp. 94–97. ISBN  978-1-4051-1306-9 .

Chen, Mark; Bargh, John A. (1997). "Nonconscious Behavioral Confirmation Processes: The Self-Fulfilling Consequences of Automatic Stereotype Activation"  (PDF). Journal of Experimental Social Psychology  33 (5): 541–560. doi :10.1006/jesp.1997.1329 .]

Not voting but the reason why is I model different scales and  it's all narrow gauge
which could throw a spanner in the works as some rolling stock is pre 1900 but other bits could be much later rebuilds and modern replacements.

Quote from: MikeDunn on August 15, 2015, 09:50:41 AM

Quote from: austinbob on August 15, 2015, 08:17:46 AM
Port Perran did say 'many would be over the age 55' and not 'all' I think what he says is probably largely true.

A spot of research brings this up :

Quote
Stereotypes lead people to expect certain actions from members of social groups. These stereotype-based expectations may lead to self-fulfilling prophecies, in which one's inaccurate expectations about a person's behavior, through social interaction, prompt that person to act in stereotype-consistent ways, thus confirming one's erroneous expectations and validating the stereotype

Hence my objection to the stereotypical labelling.  It's bad enough that those not in the hobby, as well as some of the magazines, spout this crap without our own labelling us badly too  :worried:

Mike

[Kassin, Saul M.; Fein, Steven; Markus, Hazel Rose (2011). Social psychology (8th ed.). Belmont, CA: Wadsworth, Cengage Learning . p. 172. ISBN  978-0-495-81240-1 .

Brown, Rupert (2010). Prejudice: Its Social Psychology (2nd ed.). Oxford: Wiley-Blackwell. pp. 94–97. ISBN  978-1-4051-1306-9 .

Chen, Mark; Bargh, John A. (1997). "Nonconscious Behavioral Confirmation Processes: The Self-Fulfilling Consequences of Automatic Stereotype Activation"  (PDF). Journal of Experimental Social Psychology  33 (5): 541–560. doi :10.1006/jesp.1997.1329 .]

Wow Mike - Heavy stuff.  :hmmm:
No time to read all that stuff - gotta get back to playing trains.    :beers:

It's amazing what Google & Wiki pop up  :P

Quote from: MikeDunn on August 15, 2015, 10:17:53 AM
It's amazing what Google & Wiki pop up  :P

And there was me thinking you actually new about all this psychology stuff.... :laughabovepost:

God no - I'm a science geek  :no:

I voted according to the models I've bought so far, can't start a model until I have a more accommodating residence. 

Western Region was a no-brainer for me as all I saw locally in my youth were SR green EMUs, replaced with Corporate Blue before I finished my education. 

I was converted to "God's Wonderful Railway" when I saw the TV series for kids.  I decided that the late 1950s would be the best period to model because of the wide range of liveries that were in use at that time:

Crimson, plain Maroon and Blood & Custard on ex-GW stock
Umber & Cream Pullmans
Chocolate & Cream on Mk1 WR named expresses
Blood & Custard and Lined Maroon on other Mk1 stock
Unicycling Lion on earlier liveried locomotives
Ferret & Dartboard on later liveried locomotives

Also, that period has the widest range of steam loco designs thanks to Riddles' BR Standard classes.

The introduction of ferret roundels on Mk1s is about my cut-off point.  It's not all straightforward though.  It was a gradual process and some express rakes didn't have them for a long time, so variety there as well .  Not many Chocolate & Cream Mk1 models are without them unfortunately. 

Also, there was controversy over which direction the ferret could face which led to some engines having them facing forward on both sides like the lion.  I notice that now some model panniers have a lion facing the wrong way so photos of both sides need to be studied before a purchase goes ahead. 

But my collection is growing so I'm making progress very slowly. 

Since 'eras' are inaccurate and meaningless I do not model any particular one. An example of what I mean can be found quite simply - consider the case below.
My layout is set c1970 on the Western Region, this covering between Era 6 and Era 7 (OK so far BUT) the dates are from 1967 to 1982!
This would allow me to run D600s (Class 41s), D9500s (Class 14s), D6300s (Class 22s) and D800s (Class 42/3) all of which were scrapped by 1972, alongside Class 56s (which entered service in 1976), HSTs (1976), 87s (1973) - the whole thing is a farce, in my opinion.

Quote from: sparky on August 15, 2015, 09:09:08 AM
BR blue Western Region diesels for me...although I have slipped in odd Era 8 liveries and the odd rogue loco that doesn't really fit like a blue Deltic....reflects my spotting times and is my way of turning the clock back....strangely enough I am thinking of moving on my Deltic and sector liveried locos as I still prefer seeing my rakes pulled by a BR blue loco...the other thing for me is that other than the Westerns and a tiny number of peaks all the locos in my spotting days had been converted to full TOP codes...I could not run a peak with a D number much preferring 45 or 46xxx.....as again it doesn't look right to me !

Sparky, don't forget that during resignalling trials for the HST in 1975 the WR did 'borrow' a Deltic as there was a desire to use a 100 mph + loco. As ever a  :dunce: management (what else could you call them who scrapped the Westerns?) had also scrapped Falcon, the WR's own 100mph+ loco only a few months before  ::)  :-[!
So your using a Deltic on the WR is not a problem.

It is interesting to discuss what makes people model the eras they do. I simply do not buy the general assumption that it is simply what people remember or age related.

Even on this forum where we know there are a good number who model more recent times it is clear from this poll that steam/diesel transition is by some way the single most popular epoch with this and early BR steam together adding up to a pretty sizeable percentage of the vote.

Personally my most vivid memories are of post 1975 but I choose not to model the BR blue era because it was a time of much run down and neglect. Yes, the period fascinates me in some ways as to modern times but I think a lot of people model the earlier BR epochs and especially steam/diesel transition not because it is what they remember but because it was a period when railways had much variety in terms of traction and trains, there were still local goods yards, staffed stations and the Beeching rationalisation had not really started to take full effect.

Roy

I voted eras 4 &5 as that is the period I am currently modelling. I did, however start modelling era 2 when I modelled in that other gauge and possibly would again if either RTR stock or the parts needed for scratchbuilding were available.
I  like early BR because 1, that is the era I was brought up in and 2, most types of kettle were still about in era 4 and most types of diesel in era 5

Originally Era 4 & 5, but then Dapol re-released their HST bookset and suddenly I had to have an intercity swallow livery HST. Now it is more a heritage line, if I ever manage to get to building the layout.

All of them  :-[ :P

C.

Interesting poll topic, thanks for posting.

1964 to 1976 is the era for Chetcombe. Those 12 years take in steam through to the introduction of the HST, which covers an amazing 3 eras. I wonder if there is another brief 12 year or so period that covers 3 different eras...

I model era 3, focused on 1925-35.

We need another era 'Era 10 2015-' (maybe even 2012?) as so much has changed since privatization I model 2003 which has nothing to do with what will be gwr, cross country etc.
anyone else been thinking this?

Quote from: G_N_E_R on August 18, 2015, 08:40:11 AM
We need another era 'Era 10 2015-' (maybe even 2012?) as so much has changed since privatization I model 2003 which has nothing to do with what will be gwr, cross country etc.
anyone else been thinking this?

You're not wrong. But perhaps you could simply say that you're modelling "Early Era 9" or "Late Era 9" when discussing your layout with your peers.

Don't forget that the era system is there to simplify things. For example, the "Era 1" pre-grouping period is very long, around a hundred years when you think about it. The reason it isn't subdivided is that very few people model anything other than the immediate pre-grouping (1900-1923) time frame. That's because ready-to-run models for anytime pre-1900 are very rare indeed, and the further back you go, the rarer they become.

I do believe as modellers we get hung up on the era system for its inaccuracies. That's entirely missing the point of it, rather like saying that the Highway Code is rubbish because it isn't much use to a Formula 1 driver. The era system exists to help those people who aren't modellers (such as parents of a train-mad youngster) get appropriate presents, and for those just starting out in the hobby but with limited knowledge (such as the aforementioned youngster) to buy something for their layout that won't be wildly inappropriate. And that's it. For the rest of us, it's a convenience that may or may not be useful.

Cheers, NeMo

Quote from: NeMo on August 18, 2015, 09:36:01 AM
I do believe as modellers we get hung up on the era system for its inaccuracies. That's entirely missing the point of it, rather like saying that the Highway Code is rubbish because it isn't much use to a Formula 1 driver.

That comparison is about as relevant as the era system itself :no: The Highway Code is all about driving on the public highway, something a F1 car cannot do without special permission since it's not road legal.

The eras are 'meant' to represent a major shift in train types or liveries across the network - sometimes more accurately than others. There has been no such shift since privatisation occurred, liveries have come and gone on individual TOCs and a few new trains/locos added, but until there is a massive wholesale change there's no need for another era.


Paul

Quote from: G_N_E_R on August 18, 2015, 08:40:11 AM
We need another era 'Era 10 2015-' (maybe even 2012?) as so much has changed since privatization I model 2003 which has nothing to do with what will be gwr, cross country etc.
anyone else been thinking this?

Or maybe you could just say you are building a layout based on current practice?
So much easier for everyone, enthusiast and non enthusiast alike, to understand.

So it's basically era today , gone tomorrow...................

I'll get me coat...............

Quote from: NeMo on August 18, 2015, 09:36:01 AM
Don't forget that the era system is there to simplify things.

The era system exists to help those people who aren't modellers (such as parents of a train-mad youngster) get appropriate presents, and for those just starting out in the hobby but with limited knowledge (such as the aforementioned youngster) to buy something for their layout that won't be wildly inappropriate. And that's it. For the rest of us, it's a convenience that may or may not be useful.

Cheers, NeMo

Sorry NeMo, but I believe you are a bit out with this. Yes, it's the idea to simplify things, but it doesn't work in practice, and it only complicates things in my view.
OK, so a beginner sees something marked 'Era 7' for example - 1971 to 1982, Corporate Blue/ TOPS. OK they think, perfect for my layout.
Except that is wrong because TOPS numbers only began to be applied on locos from AROUND 1973 and there were still lots of maroon locos and coaches around in 1971 and 72 with some green even as late as 1975!

That's before we begin to consider Westerns, Warships, 22s and Hymeks, scrapped during 'Era 7',  or 'Era 7' HSTs/Class 56s etc which were introduced later (post 1976). But the Era system tells us it's OK to run a Class 22 as late as 1982 or an HST/ Class 56 as early as 1971 for examples! You couldn't make it up.

Then there's the whole question of geography.
Like us our mythical beginner decides to model the early 1970s Western Region but the 'Era' system does not allow for this so his/her parents buy, in good faith (because the 'Era system says it's appropriate), a TOPS coded Class 26!
Take another example.
The Era system tells us that 'Era 3' ended in 1947 except that some of the vehicles were still carrying GWR and other 'Era 3' liveries well into Era 5 so this leads to confusion, in an historic sense, too. Some Toad brake vans went for scrapping as late as 1962 still carrying FULL GWR livery.
Were manufacturers to be sensible and take the OBVIOUS approach it would be so much easier all round.
All they needed to do was put 'Livery applies to Western Region, 1966 - 1971' (or whatever) on the box.
Says everything you need to know - solves all the problems and is simple.
The 'Era' system doesn't work for British railways - too many historical 'exceptions', geographical confusions and all round anomalies to consider it as a serious contender. Slavishly following an 'Era' leads not to a better model but an unintended application of 'Rule One'.
As ever, my personal opinions - I don't anticipate everyone will agree.

Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on August 18, 2015, 10:31:41 AM
As ever, my personal opinions - I don't anticipate everyone will agree.

Indeed, I disagree; I think you're splitting hairs unnecessarily.

Of course there are lots of exceptions. I well remember seeing Class 15s at Marylebone in BR green circa 1985. Admittedly they were non-mobile train heating machines, but nonetheless, they were one of many BR green locos still kicking about well beyond 1968. I think I'm right in saying there were even a couple of BR black shunters (complete with ferret-and-dartboard badge) working the Holyhead causeway!

I also think you're spot on about regional variation mattering at least as much time periods. After all, running LNER pacific 4468 'Mallard' on your GWR branchline might be correct in terms of 'era' but completely wrong in every other way that matters.

But none of this is important to why Bachmann (and other model companies) use eras. They aren't an *alternative* to doing research. They're a *first step* for those who don't otherwise know anything about trains, and more importantly, either can't or won't do the research needed to establish the correct provenance of a model.

I understand your points entirely though, and obviously I'd have no argument with someone running a BR blue 'Western' alongside an early livery HST despite their different eras, or for that matter, mixing up maroon and blue/grey Mk1 coaching stock in a train being hauled by a BR green 'Hymek'. It's all good, and it's all realistic.

Cheers, NeMo

Quote from: NeMo on August 18, 2015, 11:11:42 AM
, mixing up maroon and blue/grey Mk1 coaching stock in a train being hauled by a BR green 'Hymek'. It's all good, and it's all realistic.

Cheers, NeMo

:sweat: Phew!
Guilty as charged, m'lud

Quote from: NeMo on August 18, 2015, 11:11:42 AM

Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on August 18, 2015, 10:31:41 AM
As ever, my personal opinions - I don't anticipate everyone will agree.

Indeed, I disagree; I think you're splitting hairs unnecessarily.

Of course there are lots of exceptions. I well remember seeing Class 15s at Marylebone in BR green circa 1985. Admittedly they were non-mobile train heating machines, but nonetheless, they were one of many BR green locos still kicking about well beyond 1968. I think I'm right in saying there were even a couple of BR black shunters (complete with ferret-and-dartboard badge) working the Holyhead causeway!

Green class 08 shunting at Birmingham New Street in 1986? No problem  :D
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/19/thumb_28266.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=28266)
(IIRC it was a retro-livery not the original; 08604 is still with us, happily (http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/locos/08604/08604.html)).

I tend to agree with NeMo ... the Era system does work; not perfectly, but enough so that they've not replaced it.

Re your beginner - surely it's quite unlikely that a beginner will have such a specific piece of modelling !  That's normally done after some time in ... and if what they originally had doesn't fit, they've enjoyed it & will either keep (for 'old times sake' or 'it was a present') or will sell to help fund a new loco in the period they've selected.

Your mileage obviously varies ...  ;)

Quote from: NeMo on August 18, 2015, 11:11:42 AM


I think I'm right in saying there were even a couple of BR black shunters (complete with ferret-and-dartboard badge) working the Holyhead causeway!

I also think you're spot on about regional variation mattering at least as much time periods. After all, running LNER pacific 4468 'Mallard' on your GWR branchline might be correct in terms of 'era' but completely wrong in every other way that matters.

I understand your points entirely though, and obviously I'd have no argument with someone running a BR blue 'Western' alongside an early livery HST despite their different eras, or for that matter, mixing up maroon and blue/grey Mk1 coaching stock in a train being hauled by a BR green 'Hymek'. It's all good, and it's all realistic.

Cheers, NeMo

Thanks NeMo (in part anyway, even if we do disagree in others). I wouldn't call it 'splitting hairs' though, just pointing out a few of the more obvious faults with the system.
Yes, Westerns and HSTs did operate alongside each other and I well remember the Driver of D1013 Western Ranger saying "I'll be getting checked by him" to a group of enthusiasts at Paddington as an HST rolled out towards Bristol, and we were as we ran into Reading following an absolute corker of a run!
As to the Holyhead breakwater locos, spot on. Class 01s in BR black.

Greg.

Well I started off with Era 3,4 and 5 but that went out of the window when I bought a Class 66 and a Class 58 so it looks like I have gone to Rule 1.

Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on August 18, 2015, 12:05:00 PM
Yes, Westerns and HSTs did operate alongside each other and I well remember the Driver of D1013 Western Ranger saying "I'll be getting checked by him" to a group of enthusiasts at Paddington as an HST rolled out towards Bristol, and we were as we ran into Reading following an absolute corker of a run!

Afraid I need some explanation. What does "I'll be getting checked by him" mean in this context? And who had the corker of a run (and why)? The HST or D1013?

You must get out of the habit of starting a story but not providing enough detail! Some of us train-geeks want to hear details!  :)

Cheers, NeMo

My guess is the Western was forced to slow at some point as the slower moving HST hadn't cleared a section somewhere, so the Western was having the 'corker' :D

Quote from: NeMo on August 18, 2015, 12:51:26 PM

Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on August 18, 2015, 12:05:00 PM
Yes, Westerns and HSTs did operate alongside each other and I well remember the Driver of D1013 Western Ranger saying "I'll be getting checked by him" to a group of enthusiasts at Paddington as an HST rolled out towards Bristol, and we were as we ran into Reading following an absolute corker of a run!

Afraid I need some explanation. What does "I'll be getting checked by him" mean in this context? And who had the corker of a run (and why)? The HST or D1013?

You must get out of the habit of starting a story but not providing enough detail! Some of us train-geeks want to hear details!  :)

Cheers, NeMo

Sometimes NeMo, you worry me  :worried: - do you really think I'd bash an HST  :thumbsdown: when a Western  :drool: was around ?? :confused2:
:D
By 1976 many drivers had come to accept that if they had a Western they would also have at least a few enthusiasts aboard, and often the front coach (or two) would resemble an enthusiasts special!
Not all, but a significant number, would happily 'play along' and we were lucky to have had one of the best that day.
He was chatting happily to us when the HST pulled out and said (exact words now escape me but, effectively) "They should have let us go first, I'll be getting checked by him". The HST was the latest thing at that time.
If you ever experienced a Western lightly loaded and driven with gusto you'll also remember the way the g-force pushed you back in the seat and that's just what happened that day.
He must have wacked the thrash handle to full from a standing start and kept it there until we came out of Sonning Cutting, getting checked to a crawl at the gas works (New Junction) with the HST still on Platform 4 at Reading.
Start to stop, 26 minutes for the 36 miles (83 mph average). About the best run I ever had with one.
It's things like that which preservation can't (daren't) try to reproduce.

Whilst I agree that the Era system initiated by Bachman has its drawbacks it is in my opinion a useful tool.  It gives a shorthand way of expressing the time period we are mainly interested in, especially round Xmas and birthdays. I can tell my family that anything Midland region eras 4&5 will do. It gives them freedom to choose but ensures that anything they buy will be relevant. OK a maroon Duchess would have to operate under rule 1, but I would welcome one anyway!
It can prevent a few clangers like someone buying me a blue/grey coach when it would be ahead of its time, however one must remember that, generally, rolling stock and buildings lasted a very long time and local managers were not always bothered to update liveries, indeed some deliberately went the other way( Liverpool St. pilot for example).

My main interest is 5/6 i.e. early diesel/BR blue but rule one applies and I have every thing from late steam to modern diesel and with the electrification of the Western Region no doubt some electric locos and stock will creep in.
If I like it I buy it or build it. :angel:

If you count eras 1-5 loosely as "steam" era and 6-9 as "diesel" era there are almost exactly the same number of responses in each as I write this.

Not sure what this means....has "Modern Image" (ugh!  :-X) overtaken "historic" (or whatever the opposite of modern is!)?

Cheers  Jon  :)

I know others will disagree and have already done so, but I think in most cases we model a time that fits with our fondest memories around our youthish....As an example a BR blue DMU  looks good to me as do other models from early era 7 .....I get no pleasure at all from the appearance of say a Class 69 or whatever the latest super powered diesels are but appreciate if you are into today's railways then modelling the latest generation of loco is for you....I think if we overlaid our ages with the era graph it would be a good fit...

When I switched to N I intended to stick with the contemporary scene only, somehow I have drifted and seem to have stock from era 3 on, I guess I must of followed rule 1 too closely.  :D

Quote from: sparky on August 18, 2015, 06:40:49 PM
I know others will disagree and have already done so, but I think in most cases we model a time that fits with our fondest memories around our youthish....

I'm modelling a period that I never saw let alone used :D And if I was to model what I did see and use (very occasionally) in my youth it'd be all BR Blue - one of the dreariest periods to model from my point of view :unimpressed:

(unlike certain others in this thread I appreciate some people DO like BR Blue, or have different preferences to mine, so good on you if you model BR Blue or anything else - it's what makes us railway modellers such an eclectic bunch :thumbsup: )


Paul

Quote from: Sprintex on August 18, 2015, 08:19:45 PM

Quote from: sparky on August 18, 2015, 06:40:49 PM
I know others will disagree and have already done so, but I think in most cases we model a time that fits with our fondest memories around our youthish....

I'm modelling a period that I never saw let alone used :D And if I was to model what I did see and use (very occasionally) in my youth it'd be all BR Blue - one of the dreariest periods to model from my point of view :unimpressed:

(unlike certain others in this thread I appreciate some people DO like BR Blue, or have different preferences to mine, so good on you if you model BR Blue or anything else - it's what makes us railway modellers such an eclectic bunch :thumbsup: )


Paul

For once Paul we are in (almost) complete agreement, but I can not remember a time when it was "all BR Blue". It's a bit of a myth in reality.
Green, maroon and blue until the early 1970s, green and blue to the mid 1970s, then the white 'local authority' DMUs from the mid 1970s and so on.

I wonder why people talk about 'all blue' in a way they'd never describe an LMS layout (for example) as 'all maroon' (or 'Crimson Lake' to be pedantic) or Southern as 'all green'?

Has anyone any answer?

Quote from: sparky on August 18, 2015, 06:40:49 PM
I know others will disagree and have already done so, but I think in most cases we model a time that fits with our fondest memories around our youthish....

....I think if we overlaid our ages with the era graph it would be a good fit...

I selected eras 1,2 and 9 - how old does that make me?  :)

Cheers,

Dave

Quote from: Dave Searle on August 19, 2015, 08:55:49 AM

I selected eras 1,2 and 9 - how old does that make me?  :)

Cheers,

Dave

Sounds more like a split personality to me :whistle: ::)

Quote from: Dave Searle on August 19, 2015, 08:55:49 AM

Quote from: sparky on August 18, 2015, 06:40:49 PM
I know others will disagree and have already done so, but I think in most cases we model a time that fits with our fondest memories around our youthish....

....I think if we overlaid our ages with the era graph it would be a good fit...

I selected eras 1,2 and 9 - how old does that make me?  :)

Cheers,

Dave

Funny.......I am firmly era 8/9, but if I were to model steam it would definitely be era 1.


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/24/thumb_25350.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=25350)

Maybe they have something in common - lots of diverse companies with varied and colourful liveries.

Cheers  Jon  :)

Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on August 19, 2015, 07:09:44 AM

Quote from: Sprintex on August 18, 2015, 08:19:45 PM
And if I was to model what I did see and use (very occasionally) in my youth it'd be all BR Blue -

For once Paul we are in (almost) complete agreement, but I can not remember a time when it was "all BR Blue". It's a bit of a myth in reality.

Not in the two whole years I used trains as a child, EVERYTHING on my local line was blue/grey without exception, no green or white(?) EMUs (didn't have DMUs on our line at all), hence my statement ;)


Paul

Quote from: Sprintex on August 19, 2015, 09:49:05 AM

Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on August 19, 2015, 07:09:44 AM

Quote from: Sprintex on August 18, 2015, 08:19:45 PM
And if I was to model what I did see and use (very occasionally) in my youth it'd be all BR Blue -

For once Paul we are in (almost) complete agreement, but I can not remember a time when it was "all BR Blue". It's a bit of a myth in reality.

Not in the two whole years I used trains as a child, EVERYTHING on my local line was blue/grey without exception, no green or white(?) EMUs (didn't have DMUs on our line at all), hence my statement ;)


Paul

Ah, I see now. You are just taking one line as an example while I am considering the railway as a whole.
The same argument could be made about Southern green, LMS maroon, GWR chocolate and cream or even a branch line operated by a single company today.

Quote from: Sprintex on August 19, 2015, 09:49:05 AM

Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on August 19, 2015, 07:09:44 AM

Quote from: Sprintex on August 18, 2015, 08:19:45 PM
And if I was to model what I did see and use (very occasionally) in my youth it'd be all BR Blue -

For once Paul we are in (almost) complete agreement, but I can not remember a time when it was "all BR Blue". It's a bit of a myth in reality.

Not in the two whole years I used trains as a child, EVERYTHING on my local line was blue/grey without exception, no green or white(?) EMUs (didn't have DMUs on our line at all), hence my statement ;)

Paul

Sounds a lot like my experience.  I can remember all-over blue EMUs but I don't think I ever saw a green EMU (I was born in 1976, I don't know when the last green units vanished).  I'm sure there were a few years between the last plain blue units and the introduction of 'Jaffa Cake' when 'everything' was blue/grey.

But I'm willing to accept that my experience may not be representative of the network as a whole.

Incidentally, I do recall a trip to Harrogate in the mid-1980s; I wish I could remember the trains I saw up there but I do recall being astonished that there was no 3rd rail and the units belched smoke from diesel engines.  But I vaguely remember seeing some of the first of the 2nd generation DMUs (not sure whether they were Pacers) and thinking that they looked very modern compared with the Mk1-based EMUs I was used to.

I think the apparent lack of variety in the Southern EMU scene is partly responsible for my current interest in the 1960s period.  I chose to model that era because of the mix of loco hauled and multiple unit trains that I can run.  But I will do a blue/grey EMU layout at some point.

Quote from: Sprintex on August 18, 2015, 08:19:45 PM
And if I was to model what I did see and use (very occasionally) in my youth it'd be all BR Blue - one of the dreariest periods to model from my point of view :unimpressed:

I think you can only say BR blue era (70s and mid-80s) is dreary if you didn't visit depots on a regular basis.

For 'trainspotters' this was a golden age so far as diesels and electrics went. You could turn up to a depot, and if you asked nicely, chances were good you'd be let in. You could wander about and expect to see at least half a dozen classes on view. A trip to Old Oak for example circa 1984 would certainly yield 08s, 31s, 37s, 47s, 50s and HST power cars. With luck you'd bag one or two unusual spots, perhaps a 56 or something departmental.

Somewhere like Toton during a weekend and you'd see dozens and dozens of diesels all lined up doing nothing. Peaks, 47s, 56s, 25s and 20s for a start, but maybe some other bits and bobs as well.

There'd also be a lot of rolling stock, you'd have a mix of air and vacuum braked stock to look out for, plus some Big Four holdovers (brake vans for example) plus weird and wonderful departmental modifications that look positively primitive compared to the mechanised stuff you see nowadays.

I've not visited a depot since the 80s, but when I go past them on the train they always look empty. Of course this is more economical: the locos and rolling stock are all out earning a living. But dull and dreary? I'd say modern depots are much duller and drearier places than OC, TO, WN or any other other big 70s/80s yards and depots!!!

Cheers, NeMo

Quote from: NeMo on August 19, 2015, 01:01:38 PM

Quote from: Sprintex on August 18, 2015, 08:19:45 PM
And if I was to model what I did see and use (very occasionally) in my youth it'd be all BR Blue - one of the dreariest periods to model from my point of view :unimpressed:

I think you can only say BR blue era (70s and mid-80s) is dreary if you didn't visit depots on a regular basis.

I didn't visit anything, the only bit of line I travelled was Brimsdown to Liverpool Street on a Class 305 about a dozen times in 1976-77 when I was 8 years old :D

Didn't step on a train again until well into my twenties :)


Paul

I've just selected era's 7,8 & 9 (although only an early bit of 9, due to the Club owning HHC).

I have to agree with NeMo though, that the BR Blue era was quite exciting, because you just never knew what was going to come down the line when the signal changed, unlike today when you'll know, with some degree of certainty, that'll be a 66, or a DMU of some sort.

Admittedly the Modern Era is more colourful with all the different TOCs about, but they all still use pretty much the same machines.

Another problem of modelling bygone era's, is that you need more different stock, to display a reasonable variation on your layout, regardless of where it's set, unlike today when you can 'get away' with a couple of 66's a couple of DMU's and a couple of HST's (for example) on any region in the country.

Just my thoughts  :D :D

Cheers

Neal.

Quote from: Calnefoxile on August 19, 2015, 01:45:38 PM
Another problem of modelling bygone era's, is that you need more different stock, to display a reasonable variation on your layout, regardless of where it's set, unlike today

Surely that's an advantage though ?

Quote from: NeMo on August 19, 2015, 01:01:38 PM

You could turn up to a depot, and if you asked nicely, chances were good you'd be let in.

Cheers, NeMo

Indeed you could, NeMo. Particularly on a Sunday. Chances are all that would be said was something like "Don't go in the cabs and keep a good look out for moving stock. Let me know when you leave".

Just before I retired there was a case where a Driver, in FULL uniform and with his FGW identity cards, turned up at Old Oak for his turn but security would not let him through the gate because he'd forgotten his gate pass. They wouldn't let him go home to get it and a manager was called out to personally identify the Driver.
All at about 3 am!
The manager, who I knew well, was not best pleased but couldn't say anything because security were acting with their regulations.
As you say, times have changed.

Quote from: Calnefoxile on August 19, 2015, 01:45:38 PM

Admittedly the Modern Era is more colourful with all the different TOCs about, but they all still use pretty much the same machines.

Cheers

Neal.

Ah, but only if you have a main, or busy branch, line.
If your branch is only operated by one TOC then the variety of colours disappears.

Quote from: Calnefoxile on August 19, 2015, 01:45:38 PM

Another problem of modelling bygone era's, is that you need more different stock, to display a reasonable variation on your layout, regardless of where it's set

Thanks, Neal. I've been using that excuse for years to justify the amount of stock I have which is 95%+ Era 5 :D

Quote from: Dave Searle on August 19, 2015, 08:55:49 AM

Quote from: sparky on August 18, 2015, 06:40:49 PM
I know others will disagree and have already done so, but I think in most cases we model a time that fits with our fondest memories around our youthish....

....I think if we overlaid our ages with the era graph it would be a good fit...

I selected eras 1,2 and 9 - how old does that make me?  :)

Cheers,

In your second childhood perhaps?

Dave