Model Rail 16xx and J70 tram engine (Expressions of interest)

[javlinfaw7]

Groups.io British n gauge mention expressions of interest  sought  for both of these  in n gauge in this magazine. Do not purchase this magazine so have no further information

[snitchthebudgie]

Just to correct the title - it's a J70 tram engine, not a J50.  Much more delectable!!!

To express interest....

Send an email to 'modelrail AT bauermedia.co.uk' .  The subject line should be New Models then tell them what you would like in 2mm/N.  Preferably, lots of J70's....

[zwilnik]

The J70 would definitely be an interesting model. While I'm a serious Pannier Tank fan, the 16xx isn't dramatically different looking and was BR only, so it would probably be one I'd end up picking up at some point if it was in production and competitively priced, but not one I'd be out trying to get someone to produce.

[Southerngooner]

Phew, that's a relief. Having just finished a 3D printed J50 it would have been my luck to get an RTR announced! No interest in either of the two for me. Why do we keep getting exotica and not the bread and butter locos?

Dave

[martyn]

Hello Dave;

Perhaps because the unusual sells, and bread and butter doesn't?

I'd like an accurate J70, but I'm quite happy with the one I've got, especially as mine has dcc and B+B included; but the real ones were only built in small numbers and had a very restricted area of use.

I did feel for you when the OP said it was a J50!

Martyn

[Bob G]

Neither model meets any credible N gauge commercial criteria, i.e. you need to get almost all of these criteria to stand a chance of commercial success as a new entrant:

Longevity
Wide regional distribution
Multiple liveries
Been on a wish list for some time
Cute or exotic or special interest

I think ModelRail wants this one to go away, so they choose unique or short lived models and amazingly they find the demand is low, and pull out of the N gauge market.

The Clayton wins as it has been a high wish list item for years, despite limited regional distribution or numerous liveries, because it is cute.
Might as well ask for a USA tank (which I would ask for, despite having my Chivers/Roco one)

Still dont know why Bachmann dont do the LMS Twins in N.

Sorry to have such a downer on this one
Bob

[Capri_sam]

The J70 is a fun choice, but another pannier is a bit unexciting. I'm sure it'll sell, the WR is popular modelling territory (in fact I will probably buy one myself if it happens). But it isn't going to draw people into the hobby, and it's not a model that anyone already here is bemoaning the lack of. Good if it happens as any new manufacturers and models are welcome, not interesting enough for me to pre-order one now.

Ironically, my bad habit of fun rule 1 purchases means I probably will put my name down for the tram, even though the 16xx is actually my region and era.

[NGS-PO]

I'm inclined to agree with Bob. The N gauge market is not the same as the OO market.

Whilst I wouldn't say these two have been picked to deliberately fail, it's clearly an effort to maximise the research and engineering of the OO versions already established, I can see any potential failure being used as a "we offered you N gauge stuff, but you didn't buy it."

The initial motorised KRM offerings so far, King aside (although I'd be very surprised if that reaches critical mass, judging by the wooly specifications so far), are the Fell and the GT1, hardly models that have been cried out for nor with their abscence do they leave a layout incomplete.

I'd suggest what are needed are EMUs and DMUs, particularly for combined Era 4, 5, 6.  Units especially bridge numerous Era bands. And they do at least enhance a layout.  Bread and butter, as someone said. 

Of the "one-offs", the obvious ones are the Twins - Long life in operation (late 40s to mid sixties), a few liveries, and seen over a good chunk of the network, but Bachman have them pretty much sown up for anyone even thinking about it.  Maybe Falcon, it got about a bit too with a  few liveries.

I genuinly hope these two offerings prove us wrong though (and I'm the last person who wishes to be anywhere near any negativity), because any additional avenue for N gauge is good news.  It needs to be the right product though.

Best

Scott.

[Bob G]

Ive just sent an email to "Modelrail AT Bauermedia DOT co DOT uk" regarding their expressions of interest.
I've been a bit more upbeat, but I've given them some strong hints.

Dear Model Rail

I see you are asking for N gauge expressions of interest for the J70 Tram loco and 16xx pannier.

I am the NGS Helpline coordinator, but I am speaking personally, and as one of the two people behind the marketing pitch (with NGS Publicity Officer Scott Stichell) to RevolutioN for both the Class B Tank wagon in N, and encouraging the Cemflo tank wagon in N produced by Accurascale.

Unfortunately, I don't think either model you propose meets any credible N gauge commercial criteria, i.e. you need to get almost all of these criteria to stand a chance of commercial success, particularly as a new entrant:

Longevity
Wide regional distribution
Multiple liveries
Been on a wish list for some time
Cute or exotic or special interest or otherwise unique in some way
Is on the preservation scene
Unlikely to be bagged by an existing player.

Looking at current new entrants, for example:

The EFE Rail's Clayton has long been on N gauge wishlists and as it already existed at factory die level, it was quite reasonable to expect Kernow/Bachmann to get together and take this on.
The Sonic 56xx is interesting as it is a unique chassis i.e. 0-6-2T and was around a long time in multiple liveries.
The success of RevolutioN has been tapping into the current rail market, where there are many modellers desperate to model the current scene. Wagons in this era also tend to be run in block trains meaning you don't just buy one or two.

Sorry to have such a downer on this one. I think of your past products, the USA tank might have been a better choice, as it is quirky, has multiple liveries, and is on the preservation scene. The Sentinel would require a permanently wired wagon for additional pickups, but that would also seem to have a better market chance.

I still don't understand why Bachmann Farish has not produced the LMS twins in N. I would have thought that a great product, with multiple liveries and also wide regional distribution, on the SR as well as LMR, and has been on wish lists for ages.

Best regards
Bob

I would encourage anyone with strong views also emails ModelRail. They might even think N gaugers are interested in their magazine and their products.

Best regards
Bob

[gc4946]

Two 16xx panniers (1646 in 1957, 1649 in 1958) ended up on the The Mound-Dornoch branch until its closure in 1960.
1600 and 1607 were sold to the National Coal Board (source: Wikipedia)
1638 is preserved and carries green lettered "GWR" despite it not entering service until well after nationalisation.

However it's less of a challenge in modelling terms compared with the J70.
Having said that I think the J70 will sell well because of its use on tramways, light railways and harbour lines.

[martyn]

For information;

For the J70 only 12 built; one went in WW2, one in 1948, all gone by 1955. Usage, apart from WW2 loans, was limited to Wisbech and Upwell freight (the Y6 0-4-0 tram was the passenger loco class, and also the inspiration for Toby, not the J70); and Great Yarmouth, Ipswich, and Colchester Hythe docks.

There is a certain 'cuteness' to them, but as others have pointed out, they don't meet normal commercial considerations. There are also kits if one would like one.

However, I would expect a number of Rule 1 purchases, and perhaps Model Rail have some ideas of popularity from interest in the 4mm version.

Martyn

Later; but I am warming to the idea.....

Later still; original post edited as I've gone from 'no thanks' to 'probably will'.

[maridunian]

I agree that not much imagination has gone into these suggestions. The pannier in particular would be hard to tell from the existing Bachfar (even Grafar) or Dapol panniers from more than two feet away.

A small outside cylindered loco like the 1366 pannier, a Peckett/Barclay or even the USA Tank would be genuinely novel and offer 21st century mechanisms to 3D, scratch and kit builders alike.

Mike

[Bob G]

TBH the more people who tell ModelRail this idea is either their best idea ever or is totally uncommercial in N (and why) the better.
Don't just share it on this forum as I doubt they read it.
By sharing our views on here we are only sharing them with the converted.

Bob

[Railwaygun]

the info is in Model Rail (Summer 2020), P8 in small print at the bottom!

[Bob G]

Reminds me of Private Eye's "continued on p94" which of course didnt exist.