I had a brief but informative conversation with the nice chap on the Dapol stand at Alexandra Palace this afternoon. He confirmed that the class 50s had been held up by a number of matters and are expected late spring/early summer. The class 50s on the stand were the same display models as before, but with some small alterations (e.g. the number being put at the correct end of the Dutch liveried version). He also said that the mk. III sleepers are expected sometime in the summer.
I asked him whether there was any chance of an N gauge class 117 - he said "watch this space" and noted that the decisions as to which N gauge products to produce next would be made quite soon. I told him (correctly) that, if an N gauge 117 were produced, I should buy three (in blue/grey and NSE liveries). He confirmed that he had made a mental note of this.
If anyone else is after an N gauge 117, I suggest politely making it clear that there is a demand for this product on the Dapol forum in the next week or two. A class 117 to the standard of the 121 would be an excellent thing in N gauge.
A 117 would be a very nice addition and I would bag a couple of blue ones. After that all I need is a Class 120...
So long as a three car in BR green, with speed whiskers is produced, then I'm in. :D
Bob
"Sadly" a 117 would not fit my aspirations or needs, though to the standards of the 121 and 122 would I agree look magnificent. Now a 120 or even a 126, ideally in Ayrshire version, would be another matter - in green. I guess the 120 would have the more appeal as they were not confined to Scotland! However very unlikely so my converted and motorised Minitrix coaches will continue to fulfil the role.
Any WR green DMU would do me nicely, thank you :D
So that's 3 people who want a 117, requesting 4 different variants! ;D
Who'd be a manufacturer eh!?
I would be happy if someone did a Class 127, but would settle for a Class 117
:D
Whilst I would buy neither a 127 or a 117! :D
I could make a case for a 117 or two for Plymbridge.
I would definitely buy a WR DMU. A 118 would probably be my unit of choice but a 117 would definitely be "close enough". I have posted on Dapol's digest to this effect.
Quote from: Karhedron on March 26, 2019, 09:04:35 AM
I would definitely buy a WR DMU. A 118 would probably be my unit of choice but a 117 would definitely be "close enough". I have posted on Dapol's digest to this effect.
I searched Digest for your post, Matt @Karhedron (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=207) , but couldn't find it. Could you let us know where it is so we can back you up?
Quote from: Newportnobby on March 26, 2019, 10:04:19 AM
Quote from: Karhedron on March 26, 2019, 09:04:35 AM
I would definitely buy a WR DMU. A 118 would probably be my unit of choice but a 117 would definitely be "close enough". I have posted on Dapol's digest to this effect.
I searched Digest for your post, Matt @Karhedron (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=207) , but couldn't find it. Could you let us know where it is so we can back you up?
Sure, no problem. The discussion is cunningly disguised as being about future applications of their DMU chassis. ;)
https://digest.dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gauge-models/class-121-122/1048-making-the-most-of-the-63-dmu-chassis/page2 (https://digest.dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gauge-models/class-121-122/1048-making-the-most-of-the-63-dmu-chassis/page2)
Thanks, Matt. I hadn't looked back that far :doh:
I think Dapol's estimation of £250 for a 3 car unit is a bit OTT, although with the usual discount it will be down to about £213. Farish currently show their 3 car DMUs at rrp of £230.
I guess by the time the any decision is made and if anything happens prices will have risen to that height, though.
I agree that £250 does seem a bit steep for what is essentially a loco and 2 coaches. However it is a useful prototype and the repeated runs of Farish's 101s and 108s show there is a market for 1st generation DMUs. I would definitely buy one, although at £250, it would probably be just the one.
who makes the 117 in oo?
i would buy one in n gauge anway so long as it was a decent model
Joel also promised me that the Chiltern Mainline coach set to go with the excellent class 68 are definately in the pipe line but then he did promise that at TINGS last year so that means I still have time to sell a few more locos to pay for them WHEN THEY FINALY DO ARRIVE .
Bob Tidbury
Quote from: bluedepot on March 26, 2019, 01:00:44 PM
who makes the 117 in oo?
i would buy one in n gauge anway so long as it was a decent model
Bachmann are producing one in 00. It is not out yet but the EPs look promising.
(http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_03_2018/post-1467-0-64613400-1521984937.jpg)
Bachmann have the CADs for the 00 version but Dapol have a tooled up chassis and drive unit that is correct for the 117. From what I recall, CAD work counts for a much smaller percentage of the R&D costs than tooling. Also you cannot simply press a button to covert a 00 CAD into an N gauge one. Based on that, Dapol probably have a better head-start than Bachmann if they were to chose to produce one.
However that is a big "if".
To be fair, once RevolutioN produce their class 128 Parcels car, they would be in just as good a position as Dapol to produce other DMUs based on the 64' chassis.
Quote from: Bob Tidbury on March 26, 2019, 01:01:48 PM
Joel also promised me that the Chiltern Mainline coach set to go with the excellent class 68
From what I am lead to understand is they are doing the chiltern ones but to me it actually seems like an odd choice for the power door versions, I would have gone for the ones been used by Scotrail and GWR.
The Chiltern rakes have plug doors and the refurbished HST rakes have Pocket Doors of which there are more of!
Ako22 Chiltern Railways do have just one set without the new style doors and that is the one Dapol said they will do though Joel said one coach will have to be a compromise ,I'm no expert on coaches so just going by what Joel told me last year at T I N G S.
Bob Tidbury
Quote from: Karhedron on March 26, 2019, 01:08:10 PM
Bachmann are producing one in 00. It is not out yet but the EPs look promising.
(http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_03_2018/post-1467-0-64613400-1521984937.jpg)
I'm no fan of 00 stuff but, hells teeth, that looks good :heart2:
cheers for 117 cad karhedron - it looks excellent
well the 3 way fight is well and truly on then... dapol, farish or revolution... who will go for the most requested 1st gen dmu!
tim
i remembered seeing a class 117 at paddington, but did the class 115s bob ( tidbury will know ) work out of marylebone ?
could be an interesting project
Quote from: crewearpley40 on March 26, 2019, 10:31:43 PM
i remembered seeing a class 117 at paddington, butdidtheclass 115s bob ( tidbury will know ) work out of marylebone ?
I can answer that one as I went to school on one every day. Yes the 115s worked out of Marylebone in 4 car sets.
Roy
thank you roy
Quote from: Bob Tidbury on March 26, 2019, 01:36:13 PM
Ako22 Chiltern Railways do have just one set without the new style doors and that is the one Dapol said they will do though Joel said one coach will have to be a compromise ,I'm no expert on coaches so just going by what Joel told me last year at T I N G S.
Bob Tidbury
I can't see which one would have to be a compromise as they are all just standard open coaches in that set.
If they were doing the other sets pre-power doors then the buffet would need to be a compromise (as the Wrexham & Shropshire one was) because the buffets were heavily modified for Wrexham & Shropshire and there are no others like them.
However, the Chiltern sets pre-power-doors wouldn't be the right timeframe for the 68s as they didn't arrive until afterwards.
Given that there are only four sets with the plug doors, in one livery, and very unlikely to be any more now, I can't see that it would be viable for any manufacturer to make them. The sliding door conversions for HSTs (although some of the carriages are converted from loco-hauled) are a different matter though - by the time the project is finished as currently planned, there will be a lot of them and three liveries. Hornby are producing these in OO, so let's hope that Dapol do likewise in N.
Aren't some of the coaches FOs fitted out with 2+2 seating and not renumbered?
Perhaps the compromise would actually be the DVT, because they've all been modified I think and have grills on the side.
Quote from: AdrianC on March 28, 2019, 09:38:46 AM
Aren't some of the coaches FOs fitted out with 2+2 seating and not renumbered?
Perhaps the compromise would actually be the DVT, because they've all been modified I think and have grills on the side.
True, the DVT would need to be a compromise.
There are two still numbered as FOs, but so far as modelling them are concerned they are just standard TSOs - Mk3s have identical bodyshells for both classes (unlike Mk2s), and it's only the interiors which are different. There are plenty of Mk3s of both loco-hauled and HST variants which have been changed from one class to the other, but normally they get renumbered.
Yes, the DVT doesn't have the grills on the side. The buffet is wrong (as it is for most liveries, they were always up front about that), there's the "business zone" coach too isn't there? Or is that the same one...?
At least some of them are mk3a's too, so the roof vents are wrong among other differences.
All pretty small, I think we can forgive Dapol for not tooling every minor detail. I just wish they'd get the bloody liveries right, and if not right at least consistently wrong, rather than right on some coaches and wrong on others!
Quote from: njee20 on March 28, 2019, 09:53:43 AM
Yes, the DVT doesn't have the grills on the side. The buffet is wrong (as it is for most liveries, they were always up front about that), there's the "business zone" coach too isn't there? Or is that the same one...?
At least some of them are mk3a's too, so the roof vents are wrong among other differences.
All pretty small, I think we can forgive Dapol for not tooling every minor detail. I just wish they'd get the bloody liveries right, and if not right at least consistently wrong, rather than right on some coaches and wrong on others!
There isn't a buffet / business zone (it is the same coach) in the slam door set.
All of the Chiltern Mk3s are Mk3as (apart from one buffet wich is ex-HST), but Dapol have never done the correct roof detail for Mk3as so it can be taken as read that that won't be correct.
Isn't this a slam door buffet/business zone coach...?
(http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_01_2016/post-22763-0-06883600-1453813342_thumb.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Chiltern_Mk3_1st.jpg/800px-Chiltern_Mk3_1st.jpg)
Quote from: njee20 on March 28, 2019, 10:10:51 AM
Isn't this a slam door buffet/business zone coach...?
I think we've been through this before!
They started out with slam doors, but the plug doors were fitted well before the 68s arrived on the scene. Those photos show them when they were still slam-door.
In the case of the buffets, they still retain the slam doors at the counter end only, but only for emergency use. The other end, nearest the DVT, is fitted with plug doors.
So if Dapol were to do the silver Chiltern Mk3s in their slam-door form, the only corect loco would be the 67. Hence requests for the one remaining slam-door set (which was in BR blue and grey when the 68s arrived, and is now in Chiltern silver and white), as that is correct for the 68s. It does not have a buffet and the coaches are all TSOs (although two remain numbered in the FO range).
Hope that clarifies it!
Ah ha, my apologies! Yes I forgot that nuance of the the 68s not being 'original'.
in response to the above, In the case of the buffets, they still retain the slam doors at the counter end only, but only for emergency use - i would also add - andfor catering suppliers eg rail gourmet, etc to deliver / de stock the coaches. many of their staff are working at the same time as chiltern staff.
Quote from: crewearpley40 on March 28, 2019, 10:52:08 AM
in response to the above, In the case of the buffets, they still retain the slam doors at the counter end only, but only for emergency use - i would also add - andfor catering suppliers eg rail gourmet, etc to deliver / de stock the coaches. many of their staff are working at the same time as chiltern staff.
Have Chiltern reintroduced catering on trains then? Two or three years ago they completely axed it.
I stand corrected chiltern stopped catering may 20, 2017 due to number of factors. Im in other toc mode
Quote from: crewearpley40 on March 28, 2019, 11:33:17 AM
I stand corrected chiltern stopped catering may 20, 2017 due to number of factors. Im in other toc mode
On HSTs, the counter-end buffet doors are for emergency and staff use only and I think always have been. They certainly do use them for loading and unloading catering trolleys - see if regularly in the evenings at Leeds.
Power-door HSTs mostly don't have buffets as such - none on the GW sets do, and the XC ones have a small catering area, but with seating between it and the doors on both sides so all the doors are passenger doors.
The Scotrail sets are having a small buffet counter area installed at one end of what was a TF. The slam doors do remain at that end, so I assume they will be used for loading and unloading.
That was what i meant by in another toc mode. East coast, grand central hsts
Quote from: bluedepot on March 26, 2019, 10:24:14 PM
cheers for 117 cad karhedron - it looks excellent
well the 3 way fight is well and truly on then... dapol, farish or revolution... who will go for the most requested 1st gen dmu!
tim
It looks like a tricky situation for each manufacturer. Any of them could do it, but might be reluctant in case another can get to the market sooner.
Whoever does, will need to tool up bodies, interiors, glazing and, for the trailers, underframes. It's not a trivial undertaking.
That said, funds permitting, I'd have at least 4 sets.
I would have four sets - two in green/SYP, two in blue.
Funded by selling my 3 car 108s, which are pretending to be 117s. The demand for the centre car in the 108 is, i believe, quite high.
Bob
Quote from: Bob G on March 31, 2019, 11:31:32 AM
The demand for the centre car in the 108 is, i believe, quite high.
Until Farish release the announced re-run of the 3 car 108
Quote from: nookfield on March 31, 2019, 12:13:59 PM
Quote from: Bob G on March 31, 2019, 11:31:32 AM
The demand for the centre car in the 108 is, i believe, quite high.
Until Farish release the announced re-run of the 3 car 108
I don't believe they will make them any more - after this year's batch - because as you know, prices are going through the roof and many people are making do with a two car DMU, or as has been discussed on here, dont have the room for a 3-car DMU.
There has not been a 3-car 101 since the first launch in 2011, although we have had 2-car 101s reissued
And there has not been any 3-car 108s since 2010 (but there will be some this year) although we have had 2-car 108s reissued too.
On the second generation front, most are 2-car DMUs apart from the 168 from 2006.
We've not had a 3-car 159 since 2005, or a Chiltern 168 since 2006, but we've had a lot of 170 2-car DMUs.
The new 158 has been announced but no sign of a 159...
OK its not a definitive NO from Farish but it's the same discussion that Triang had with itself when they brought out their 2-car EMU.
They had a 3-car DMU (the 101) but they didn't think punters could afford the cost of a 3-car EMU.
Just a thought...
Bob