THE RESULTS OF THE NGF POLL

[red_death]

Many thanks for doing this survey. For me, there are a few interesting insights:

3) For EMUs, SWT is also absent from Dapol/Farish - hopefully this might change with the 450?

Gnep

Southern and Southeastern are also absent from Farish/Dapol. At the moment, the only RTR current trains that feature on the old NSE region is the Cross Country Voyager and the Eurostar in 1:160 gauge.

SWT 159 out of Waterloo? Southern 171 though long since sold out. Farish Desiro in both OHLE version and dual voltage ran across a fair chunk of what was NSE.

[Pengi]

SWT 159 out of Waterloo? Southern 171 though long since sold out. Farish Desiro in both OHLE version and dual voltage ran across a fair chunk of what was NSE.

I am referring to new RTR trains that do not require any modification.

SWT 159 and 171 are no longer produced.

Regarding the Farish Desiro running across what was the old NSE, which are you referring to? I understand that the London Midland version was 'borrowed' by its sister company Southern on occasions, were there others?

[EtchedPixels]

Many thanks for doing this survey. For me, there are a few interesting insights:

1) In the Steam world, 4-4-0s are woefully under-represented by Dapol and Farish - and this result might give us something

Try finding a 2-4-2. According to Bachmann the big steam locos always sell far better than little ones.

4) Below some clear "favourites," there is a lot of room for kits - but what may be needed are some good, cheap chassis options from the bigger manufacturers - especially 4-4-0s as mentioned above (either inside or outside-valved!) I know that "close enough" is better than perfect in my eyes - so needn't be a spot on match; I just want the flavour of the loco rather than a precise but very expensive model.

A lot already are

I think there could be an opportunity for someone to offer "detailing kits" for Union Mills locos - would this be possible sosomeone with my skill level of "hamfisted" can apply and paint?

Such a kit would contain what. A few lengths of wire, some lamps, some vac pipes, and a crew

You can buy all those already . Combine that with a bit of toning down the paintwork and the buffers and you are most of the way there.

There's actually not a lot needed to lift the Union Mills locos from mundane to nice. It also plays in your favour that people tend to focus on a few detais. With a few details the rest will magically lift, just as most of a painting is in fact often quite plain.

Alan

[Gnep]

Regarding the Farish Desiro running across what was the old NSE, which are you referring to? I understand that the London Midland version was 'borrowed' by its sister company Southern on occasions, were there others?

My bad... I was referring to my own head... where Farish release a SWT-liveried 450 is an inevitability following the 350s! Wishful thinking maybe, but surely it must happen!

[EtchedPixels]

On the kit subject

LMS twins have been  a kit (but very hard to get nowdays)
Class 22 is a kit (Worsley Works, 2nd hand NSprays)
Class 59 is a kit (BHE)
Class 17 is a kit (Parkwood)
Class 28 is a kit (Ian Stoate, Worsley Works)
Class 41 is a kit (Worsley Works, 2nd hand Heritage N)
Class 23 is a kit (2nd hand Heritage N)
Class 85 is a kit (2nd hand Heritage N - but rare)
Class 92 is about to be  a kit with luck (and is RTR - CJM)
Class 90 is RTR already (wtf is it on the list ?)
Class 71 is a kit (Etched Pixels, and maybe the old BHE one)
Class 74 is a kit (Etched Pixels, Worsley Works)
Class 89 is RTR (CJM - so pricy)
Raworth Class 70 is a kit (Worsley Works)
Class 91 is also RTR and I've no idea why its on the list


Class 105 is a kit (BHE, also conversion ends from NTrain I believe)
Class 117 is a kit (BHE)
Derby Lightweight single car is a kit (Etched Pixels)
Class 120 is a kit (BHE)
Class 180 isn't .. yet
Class 43 class 143 ?
Class 122 is a kit (BHE)
Class 175 is a kit (Etched Pixels/Electra)
Class 128 is a kit (BHE) - and its a good intro to building those DMU kits


EMU's are a bit more bleak although
MLV - TPM
4-EPB BHE / Electra
WES - TPM / Electra

[Pengi]

Regarding the Farish Desiro running across what was the old NSE, which are you referring to? I understand that the London Midland version was 'borrowed' by its sister company Southern on occasions, were there others?

My bad... I was referring to my own head... where Farish release a SWT-liveried 450 is an inevitability following the 350s! Wishful thinking maybe, but surely it must happen!

You are ok. I'd think they must bring one out - even if it is a limited edition and Electra Graphics are also working on vinyls to convert the 350.

My last post was a question to red_death as to whether there are any other RTR Farish Desiros running across the old NSE network.

[Gnep]

Try finding a 2-4-2. According to Bachmann the big steam locos always sell far better than little ones.
A lot already are

...

Such a kit would contain what. A few lengths of wire, some lamps, some vac pipes, and a crew

You can buy all those already . Combine that with a bit of toning down the paintwork and the buffers and you are most of the way there.

There's actually not a lot needed to lift the Union Mills locos from mundane to nice. It also plays in your favour that people tend to focus on a few detais. With a few details the rest will magically lift, just as most of a painting is in fact often quite plain.

Alan

Thanks EP... I would love to run a Stirling Single in N at some point too - guess there aren't any obvious chassis for that either

I guess what I mean for Union Mills is (apart from the bits of wire) - assuming I can re-paint a single colour (even I could probably manage that), what would I then need for lining/numbering/lettering? Transfers I guess, plus the aforementioned wire for better handrails, plus vac pipes, and then some weathering to tone down the results...

Good list of kits - something I do want to explore as I build my confidence. Might need to wait until the littlest nipper sleeps through the night first though!

[Newportnobby]

Had a problem with the class 43, but as no one had reported seeing one pulling freight wagons I put it, rightly or wrongly, in the MU section. Tricky one

[red_death]

I am referring to new RTR trains that do not require any modification.

SWT 159 and 171 are no longer produced.

Regarding the Farish Desiro running across what was the old NSE, which are you referring to? I understand that the London Midland version was 'borrowed' by its sister company Southern on occasions, were there others?

None of those required any modification 

The SWT 159 and the Southern 171 were standard re-liveries of existing models.  They are "no longer produced" in the same sense that is true for much of the Farish or Dapol models which are batch produced.

NSE got as far as Northampton on WCML ie the same lines and services that the Desiros are used for.  Yes the 350s were used by Southern.

[Pengi]

Ok - I didn't realise that NSE went as far as Milton Keynes. I think i was meaning the old Southern Region - the bit now mainly operated by SWT, Southern, First, Southeastern.

I was also only stating trains 'that did not require modification' to exclude the fact that a 350 could be modified to produce a 450.

I am still of the opinion that the only new RTR trains that can be bought for this region are the Voyager and Eurostar.

Hopefully that will change with a SWT 450

[Karhedron]

I am still of the opinion that the only new RTR trains that can be bought for this region are the Voyager and Eurostar.

Dapol do the class 121 bubble car in NSE livery and have done a class 86 in NSE livery too. The 108s could be seen on the Bedford - Bletchley line and also occasionally on the route out of Paddington, ditto the new 101s. And that is not counting the assorted intercity trains that ran through the NSE area on their way to the capital.

[Sandvika]

I think there could be an opportunity for someone to offer "detailing kits" for Union Mills locos - would this be possible sosomeone with my skill level of "hamfisted" can apply and paint?

Gnep

Great minds think alike. I suggested to a guy who offered his scratch-building services to me that there was a gap in the market for detailing Union Mills locomotives and offering them in pre-grouping liveries and that he should try one to test the waters.

[EtchedPixels]

Great minds think alike. I suggested to a guy who offered his scratch-building services to me that there was a gap in the market for detailing Union Mills locomotives and offering them in pre-grouping liveries and that he should try one to test the waters.

Almost none of the Union Mills locos can be just put into pre-group livery. They are models of the locos as they've been updated by the big four companies. Backdating them is unfortunately a rather major exercise in most cases.

[Dr Al]

UM locos really can be brought up to the standard of the most recent superdetail releases from other manufacturers - it just depends how far you are willing to go.

I've done a few:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/15768-j39-buffer-to-bufferjpg/
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/30905-union-mills-n-gauge-d20-superdetailed/

Both obviously have handrails replaced, as well as buffers and steps, and have had numerous additional details fitted - particularly the D20 which had its tender completely reworked to appropriate style and front bogie wheels replaced with closer to scale ones.

Cheers,
Alan

[Bealman]

I've been checking this thread and remember when the first Union Mills model came out back in the 1990s. At the time, the two models that I had experience with on my local club's exhibition layout had running problems.

All the discussion in this thread about their enhancement I find interesting, but how do they run? I have two beautifully modified locomotives on the Beal & Castle Eden which are a credit to the man who did them - but they don't run! They stand on shed roads for the admiration of onlookers (myself being one of them).

Are the Union Mills models worth all the effort? To me, a loco that looks good but doesn't go is not.

Before anyone has a go at me, I hope the answer is yes, because I have always liked Union Mills.