SR coach set numbering

Gooner1953 · August 15, 2013, 03:21:13 AM

Hi,

I'm modelling the SR in the 1950s covering coaching stock both pre and post 1956. I need to number my coach sets and wanted to know whether the set numbers were carried on:

1. Both ends of each coach in a set,
2. Both ends of the outer coaches in a set, or,
3. Just the outer ends of the outer coaches in a set.

I hope those alternatives are clear enough and any help would be appreciated! The photos I have don't reaaly help on this one...

Many thanks
Nick

gc4946 · August 15, 2013, 08:16:14 PM

The answer's (3), just the outer ends of the outer coaches in a set.

Gooner1953 · August 16, 2013, 01:52:52 AM

'Many thanks, much appreciated...

Nick.

tadpole · August 16, 2013, 09:49:24 AM

The rakes weren't like multiple units, so would be chopped and changed from time to time for different lines/seasons/purposes.
Doing it this way (method 3) meant the intermediate carriages could be swapped in and out without upsetting the diagrams or set numbers.

Gooner1953 · August 16, 2013, 10:27:41 AM

Quote from: tadpole on August 16, 2013, 09:49:24 AM
The rakes weren't like multiple units, so would be chopped and changed from time to time for different lines/seasons/purposes.
Doing it this way (method 3) meant the intermediate carriages could be swapped in and out without upsetting the diagrams or set numbers.

Thanks Tadpole, that makes sense, I had originally thought the set formations were rigid which would have been a bit restrictive.

Nick

CarriageShed · August 16, 2013, 03:12:46 PM

Don't forget that you'll need an array of loose carriages that act as strengthening carriages during summer traffic. These were often just added onto the end of a coach set to turn, for example, a three car set into a four car set.

Gooner1953 · August 17, 2013, 12:50:33 PM

Quote from: Pete33 on August 16, 2013, 03:12:46 PM
Don't forget that you'll need an array of loose carriages that act as strengthening carriages during summer traffic. These were often just added onto the end of a coach set to turn, for example, a three car set into a four car set.

Got plenty of those! I'm going to try to replicate the summer Saturday traffic through Barnstaple Junction to Ilfracombe so loads of coaches needed and locos. It's all going to be fun and games.....

Nick

CarriageShed · August 17, 2013, 01:58:30 PM

Quote from: Gooner1953 on August 17, 2013, 12:50:33 PM
Got plenty of those! I'm going to try to replicate the summer Saturday traffic through Barnstaple Junction to Ilfracombe so loads of coaches needed and locos. It's all going to be fun and games.....

Nick

I'm planning on doing something similar with a layout based around Bournemouth West, so I've also been looking into coach sets. I even went to far as to purchase a copy of 'An Illustrated History of Southern Coaches' by Mike King (2008), and it was worth every penny! I can highly recommend it.

Once I've finally moved house, Barnstaple Junction won't be a million miles away from me...

Peter

Gooner1953 · August 17, 2013, 04:40:29 PM

Hi Peter,

I agree, the Mike King book is invaluable, one of my best buys. I would also recommend Gordon Weddell's books on LSWR Carriages which are invaluable for information on older stock that was used in North Devon and in Bournemouth

I was also able to obtain the Working Timtable, the Carriage Working Notice and the Engine Workings for summer working on the Barnstaple/Ilfracombe line in the 1950s, all incredibly useful and, best of all, The District Controller's View for the North Devon Line on a summer Saturday which is incredibly detailed.

Unfortunately there is no way I have enough space to model Barnstaple Junction so it will be a freelance layout with similar traffic and operations to Barnstaple. I'm hoping to inherit a really large space in 4 years time which will mean I can model the area properly so my current layout will be by way of an experiment in N gauge modelling techniques and operations after a long time away from the hobby.

Nick

CarriageShed · August 17, 2013, 05:47:47 PM

Quote from: Gooner1953 on August 17, 2013, 04:40:29 PM
I agree, the Mike King book is invaluable, one of my best buys. I would also recommend Gordon Weddell's books on LSWR Carriages which are invaluable for information on older stock that was used in North Devon and in Bournemouth

I was also able to obtain the Working Timetable, the Carriage Working Notice and the Engine Workings for summer working on the Barnstaple/Ilfracombe line in the 1950s, all incredibly useful and, best of all, The District Controller's View for the North Devon Line on a summer Saturday which is incredibly detailed.

Unfortunately there is no way I have enough space to model Barnstaple Junction so it will be a freelance layout with similar traffic and operations to Barnstaple. I'm hoping to inherit a really large space in 4 years time which will mean I can model the area properly so my current layout will be by way of an experiment in N gauge modelling techniques and operations after a long time away from the hobby.

Hi Nick

It's just an idea, but if you're going to be able to upgrade the layout in four years, why not start with a section of it now that can be slotted into the rest of it later? Let's face it, four years might just about be enough time to finish the modelling and scenery work on the first section, so you might find the timing to be pretty good!

I didn't know about the LSWR carriages book, so thanks for mentioning it. The price is a little steep right now (I'm waiting to complete on a house purchase), but I'll bear it in mind.

I have a reproduced Bradshaw's for the 1938 timetables, so if I can help with any info, let me know.

Gooner1953 · August 17, 2013, 06:17:09 PM

Hi Peter,

I did look long and hard at the idea of doing a single module of a larger layout but space is still a real issue.

When I modelled in the past, in both N and OO gauges, what I really like is the operational aspects of the railways and I've always tried to run a full 'real life' timetable. To do that for the North Devon line really means I need to model either Barnstaple Junction or Ilfracombe and space precludes either. Torrington might be possible but lacks the traffic intensity and I could model Barnstaple Town but my last 2 layouts 20 odd years ago were both BR (WR) and I really fancied a change!

So, Taw junction will have 4 lines diverging to Ilfracombe, Torrington, Exeter and Tanton. Loads of traffic, coaches all over the place on a summer Saturday and all my growing SR loco fleet in action. Should be fun and the build is due to start in the next month.

I must admit that I'm looking forward to your S&D efforts as that would have been my choice if I hadn't discovered Barnstaple Junction and the North Devon line. The mix of LMS and Southern is going to be really interesting and a little different. Roll on the house move and space for your layout!

Nick

CarriageShed · August 17, 2013, 07:00:30 PM

A few more 'snap!' moments: it's the operational aspect that's my main driving factor, too. I've already built a timetable in Excel that can either be used in full real time or can be compressed very easily for more intensive working. My last layout (slightly more than twenty years ago!) was mostly LMS. That was N Gauge, and I remember that on my last OO layout before making the switch to N there was an LMS loco on that too.

This time I wanted to try the SR (having lived in Kent for fifteen years), but the LMS have managed to creep back into it in a fairly major way! I plan (or at least hope) to do a relatively accurate representation of Bournemouth West and then a kind of compressed S&D which is represented by a cut-down Evercreech Junction. The year will be 1930, so I can run a few S&D locos in Prussian blue too, as they weren't all repainted and renumbered straight away. So the S&D section will be S&D and LMS locos with SR green coaches, and with a strong SR presence at Bournemouth itself.

The layout will be at least two metres long, but I can't produce a final plan until I move, and I probably won't be able to start work until after Christmas (painting and decorating and other dull practical stuff has to come first). That means that you'll be way ahead of me, and I'm looking forward to seeing the thread that documents your progress. I suppose that you can mix some GWR workings into the layout somewhere, so there's the chance of some variety as well as busy junction working for the SR. It sounds really interesting!

Peter

Gooner1953 · August 18, 2013, 09:37:17 AM

The LMS was my first love, not surprising given that I was brought up here in Tamworth and spent many happy days back in the late 50s on what is now the college embankment watching the dying days of steam on the WCML and the cross country route. After 20 odd years living all over the place we came back here in 1989 to a house that's just 200 yards from the main line. The two GWR layouts I did 20 years ago reflected the fact that I was living in the Forest of Dean at the time but prior to that I had modelled 1930s LMS and 1950s BR (M). The Southern came about following a number of holidays in North Devon. a part of the country I had always assumed was GWR! The chance to do something different was irrestible.

I'm hoping that the Dapol Maunsell coaches arrive in the not too distant future to go with the Farish Bulleid coaches that Hattons say are now due in December/January, no doubt you will be waiting for the same stock. If the Dapol coaches don't look as if they are coming anytime soon then I will try a few of Etched Pixels kits. My loco stock is improving all the time but I really need the Farish N class and the Dapol BoB/West Country classes to make my inventory complete. And I'm going to have to look at building a 43XX for traffic off the Taunton line. Must admit that I have been following the expansion of your loco fleet with interest and it was a very shrewd move to opt for 1930, gives you a bit more variety.

I'm also a sucker for goods vehicles and my library reflects that. I would recommend 'An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons' which comes in 5 volumes. Some really interesting wagons in there and Volume 2 on the L&SWR and S&DJR should be of particular interest to you.

The layout will start progressing fairly quickly in a month or two; I'm working at the moment on getting my son involved with my business so that I can start a semi-retirement and that is taking up more of my spare time than I had originally thought. I've left it until he was in his late 20s on the basis that he would be more sensible by that age. The jury's still out on that one!

I will get organised with photos, hunting for my camera/PC lead at the moment, it's here somewhere, and I will get a construction thread started as soon as the plan is finalised in AnyRail any day soon... Must admit that I don't envy your house move; stressful time!

Nick

CarriageShed · August 18, 2013, 10:06:01 AM

Hi Nick

At least you were around to see the last days of steam! I grew up in 1970s North London, with a love of Deltics thundering past my nearby station, so I'm not sure where this preference for steam came from. I'm sure it's partially due to 'boring' EMUs taking over the modern railways (EMU fans please don't hang, draw and quarter me for that - it's just a point of view

)

My entire move is due mostly to family holidays in the West Country. I wanted to get away from the crowded south-east and rude, grumpy Londoners, and get a bit of space and countryside around me. So it's Somerset, here I come. It shouldn't be too stressful as my stuff has been in storage for the last three months, so I'm ready to go at the drop of a hat.

I'll add 'An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons' to my watch list (another expensive tome to hunt down!). Have you seen 'The North Devon Line: The Southern Railway Between Exeter and Ilfracombe' by John Nicholas? I came across that just now while searching for the wagons books. That one's definitely up your street. As for coaches, I'm eagerly awaiting the Maunsells, and will be replacing my Farish mainline carriages with those. Not sure about the Bulleids, as they'll be a little late for 1930, but then again, I already have two Farish Merchant Navy locos and an 'Austerity' Q1 0-6-0, so I guess Rule 1 applies here.

I'm looking forward to seeing your construction thread. Please do include everything including track planning (should this be a separate thread, like the one I've already started?) and baseboard construction. You've no idea how much I've learned in the past few months by following people's detailed layout threads.