BR Diesels - North Cornwall

[port perran]

I've checked my books and can't add any other diesels other than the ones I've already listed I'm afraid.

[Chris in Prague]

Many thanks for your quick reply. I have won 2 BR Blue Class 08s on eBay for good prices but want to renumber them to fit within my limit of 1969 and wanted to know which D numbers would be suitable for St. Blazey allocated examples that could have worked the Bodmin - Wadebridge line. (The scenario is that they would go from Wadebridge, via, Bodmin, to the diesel light maintenance dept at Penmayne, instead of down to St. Blaze,y for refuelling and minor servicing.)

All I have found on the Internet is a photo of BR Blue, D4161, at Bodmin Road (now 'Bodmin Parkway'), allegedly in summer 1971, but it was only allocated to St. Blazey from 1972 - 1974.

[Michael Hendle]

 

I'm doing a fictitious North Cornwall Branch,called Morwena,My Dad was stationed at Morwenstow between 1943-1944,with the American Army,he was in the Royal Artillary AA command,testing mobile radar.

( Morwena was a Cornish Saint )

I used modellers licence,Southern Loco's Adams 0395,Q1,M7,Western 14XX and Pannier Tank + class 14 Teddy Bear,and some how a class 24.

The Southern used some 24's before getting the 33's,some how this one has drifted from the South Eastern Division.

Mike 

[Chris in Prague]

If I remember correctly, the Class 24s were loaned from the LMR and coupled between the Class 33 and its train to provide steam heating as the SR did not have enough ETH carriages to begin with. I think the Class 24s did venture out solo, too, but only in the SE of England, and mainly on local passenger trains until there were enough DEMUs. (I no longer have all my 1960s "Trains Illustrated"s but remember re-reading them in the 1980s.

However, following Port Perran's recommendation, the local management at Penmayne have 'wangled' a Class 14, D9501, for PWM trains whilst the line is being upgraded under the new WR management, so, I guess, a Class 24 could be borrowed for evaluation, too, at Morwena?

[port perran]

Do remember that Rule 1 applies. I think "artistic license" is fine. The Class 14 and 24 sound fine to me.
Perhaps draw the line at a Deltic though !!

[Chris in Prague]

Yes, a Deltic is DEFINITELY out! Interestingly, in "The District Controller's View: No. 14 North Devon (bought out of interest as No. 16 North Cornwall is my reference), on p. 23 in the Locomotive Restrictions: North Devon, every diesel class then in existence, including D9000s (!) are listed. (They were banned from everywhere except Yeoford - Barnstaple and Barnstaple - Torrington but could not run through Torrington station!) What became Class 42, Class 08, and Class 33 had the widest availability. Class 35 and 37 were more restricted. as were Class 03 and 52. Class 24 could only run Yeoford - Barnstaple.

[1018509]

That sounds an excellent idea. My (planned) layout is based on a modified version of Padstow but with some features from Halwill Junction, Bude, and Ilfracombe so all protypical for the area. As I won't be moving for at least 10 years I have plenty of time for planning, learning, and buying stock!

The thought of having to learn all about DCC and wiring is rather daunting!

Although a (G)WR man at heart I've always loved the atmosphere of the ex-LSWR 'Withered Arm' and (G)WR locos like 45XX and 57XX panniers, not to mention the 136X small panniers all ran in the area, together with a nice selection of BR Standards. I think I can stretch beyond Class 22s (which certainly ran) to Warships (which ran to Ilfracombe) and, maybe Hymeks which weren't exactly common in the far South West. (I'm not really interested in SR T9s or Ns, hence choosing 1963-67)  I wonder if Westerns had the Route Availability? Plymouth Laira certainly had an allocation. Alas Class 14s (to my knowledge) never ran in the South West. A pity as I still remember cabbing an almost grandnew D9501 after it had already been withdrawn and stored!

To the best of my knowledge, Class 03s were only based at St. Blazey and Class 04s at Exmouth Junction and I don't believe Class 08s ever ran on the 'Withered Arm'? Still, I'm going to have an 03 and maybe a 04 (both SR allocated)!

I also want a green Class 122 railcar (they certainly ran). However, I'm not sure whether the WR used Class 121s on the ex-SR lines? Green two and three-car Class 117s ran and, on specials Class 120s and, much later, even Metro-Cammells. I read that Ilfracombe had 'facilities' for railcars but they were based at Plymouth and Newton Abbot.

Hi Chris, I'm glad the Warship got to Prague safely. I never knew until your post that there were 2 car class 117's 3 of them I believe according to Wikipedia. I run class 108's (in my eyes class 117's) on my layout mostly two car but I have two three car units - I like to think of my layout as a late 50's to mid 60's era GWR country setup and have 6 class 121's and one class 122 a lot for a small 7' end to end layout.

About the class 117 - would you happen to know if I am tight in believing that there was no corridor connection between carriages on these units?

[Chris in Prague]

Thanks. One (green) Warship is here, 2 Maroon ones are still in England. One is being renamed, renumbered, and lightly weathered. The second maroon Warship will also be lightly weathered but I've not decided yet ob changing its identity.

The Class 117's were power twins needed to keep to the demanding schedules, I read, on the North Cornwall lines. (I thought it was because there were not enough passengers to need 3 cars). I think they were normal sets with the centre car removed by Laira. I'm pretty sure none were built as 2 cars. (Wikipedia is NOT the most reliable of sources -- as I warn my students!) There were, again, I'm fairly certain, no gangways between the cars until much later when all the suburban units were so retrofitted. I have old green Graham Farrish Class 101s (which have W series numbers) in 2-car, 3-car, and a single trailer configurations. All will I plan, bar one 3-car set for enthusiast specials from Birmingham, have Class 117 bodies fitted (kits are available and I want to have  ago, starting with a 56XXX trailer car). I only have one single unit BR railcar but also have on order one GWR railcar in GWR livery as a preserved example for Summer weekend specials! I want to have one Class 121 and one Class 122 railcar but, at £100 plus for one, one is all I have so far. All my DMUs, except the GWR railcar, are in BR Green with small warning panels.

[EtchedPixels]

About the class 117 - would you happen to know if I am tight in believing that there was no corridor connection between carriages on these units?

Quite a few DMUs started that way and then acquired corridor connections over time (for things like 'paytrain' operation) and also because a large supply of old style gangways was available of stuff being scrapped.

Alan

[johnlambert]

I run class 108's (in my eyes class 117's) on my layout mostly

Nice to know I'm not the only one doing that!

I didn't know the stuff about the gangway connection between cars.

[Chris in Prague]

I see a lot of Green Class 108s run on layouts in the absence of models of something more appropriate. However, there are kits available for more types but, I'm told, not for a novice like me. However, I will work my way up to trying one, starting with a few SR box and parcel van kits before trying a 56XXX series trailer for the single unit diesel railcars. Then I plan to move on to a power twin and, finally, a three-car unit.

I'm hoping to get an ex-GWR diesel railcar in BR Green, as some used to be shedded at Worcester, although I'm not old enough to have seen them my father did. And I will invoke Rule 1 for running it at Penmayne and Cant Cove, as they never ran in Cornwall to the best of my knowledge. However, I have an elaborate 'back story' to explain how devolved local management is able to do such things! (It involves the real life prototype of Lady Penelope of "Thunderbirds" fame, exclusive parties in an exclusive Chelsea town house and the chairmen of the BRB and Western and Southern Regions!)

[port perran]

So are you going to have a pink limousine driven by Parker on your layout ?

[dodger]

Meldon Viaduct was repaired in the early 1960's which allowed the rebuilt light pacifics to work to Plymouth. I have photo evidence of D815 at Oakhampton working the Plymouth - Brighton train on the 1/1/65, the last day of steam.

After dieselisation Loco hauled through trains seemed to only work to Bude. All local services were DMU operated whilst 63's and 7000's worked the hauled passenger trains. Freight train loads were usually capable of being worked by 63's, although I thoiught shunters wroked the Wenford branch, unless this was in the 1970's when the 63's had departed to another life.

The 2 or 3 car DMU's were usually class 118 (BRcW) or class 120 (Swindon cc). When the class 117 (Pressed Steel) were built most went to the London Division and the 3 2 car units were strengthed with a class 118 trailer. This left 3 2 car 118's allocated to Laira.

Dodger

[Chris in Prague]

Meldon Viaduct was repaired in the early 1960's which allowed the Rebuilt Light Pacifics to work to Plymouth. [That I knew about; I understand that there are two bridges side-by-side and it wa sthe newer that was upgraded.]  I have photo evidence of D815 at Oakhampton working the Plymouth - Brighton train on the 1/1/65, the last day of steam. [T.W.E. Roche in "The Withered Arm" (1967) writes about a 'Pilgrimage to Launceston' in August, 1966. At Tavistock North, he sees a 3-car d.m.u. with about 15 passengers and a Class 22 D6313 with a Toad Brake van working across to the ex-GWR route on a demolition train. He also describes the Brighton-Plymouth hauled by a maroon Class 42, D821, which he mistakenly calls "Dreadnaught". One of my 2 Maroon Warships will be D821. Later, in the evening, he sees a 2-car DMU then a 3 coach stopper with D832 "Monarch" at its head. Then at Tower Hill he sees single unit, W55017, into which he gets joining 4 other passengers. At Launceston, he sees the 3-car DMU arrive from Wadebridge to which W55017 attaches on the front. About 6 passengers joined. He gets out at Tower Hill with another passenger.

He then writes about the last days of the 10.12 ex-Brighton to Plymouth. On Friday 3rd March 1967 he rides on the very last train from Plymouth to Exeter via Tavistock. From 6th March the Brighton terminates at Exeter, and the "Withered Arm" would be served by DMUs - a prelude to the complete closure of the Okehampton - Bere Alston section later that year. D830 "Majestic" in new (Chromatic) blue livery hauls the Brighton, piloted by D817 "Foxhound" from Salisbury to Yeovil Jn. They pass USA tank DS234 at Meldon Quarry. Meldon Quarry to Bere Alston closed to all traffic from 6th May 1968. If "Foxhound" was in maroon that will be the identity for my 2nd maroon "Warship".]

After dieselisation Loco hauled through trains seemed to only work to Bude. All local services were DMU operated whilst 63's and 7000's worked the hauled passenger trains. Freight train loads were usually capable of being worked by 63's, although I thought shunters worked the Wenford branch, unless this was in the 1970's when the 63's had departed to another life. [For the summer of 1965 only, a through train to / from Paddington operated to Bude on Saturdays via Yeovil Pen Mill. At least one Class 35 "Hymek" worked to Bude on test, presumably in connection with the Paddington trains.]

The 2 or 3 car DMU's were usually class 118 (BRCW) or class 120 (Swindon Cross Country). When the class 117 (Pressed Steel) were built most went to the London Division and the 3 2-car units were strengthened with a class 118 trailer. This left 3 2 car 118's allocated to Laira. [Thanks for this new info. about the DMUs. I got my Class 117s confused with Class 118s and had never read about any 2-car units being built. I know Swindon Class 120s and Metro-Cammell Class 101s worked enthusiast specials. I think Gloucester R.C.&W. Co Class 119 Cross-Country units also worked the Ilfracombe line. I have seen no photos of Class 120s running on normal service trains on the "Withered Arm". So, I need to build Class 118s (2 and 3 car versions) and a 120. It would be nice to have the carriage numbers for the 3 2-car 118's allocated to Laira.]

Dodger

[Chris in Prague]

Yes, the Wenford Bridge branch was worked by Class 08s after the WR 16XXs (which replaced the Beattie Well Tanks for a short time) but Class 03s worked Wenford Quay I've been told. St. Blazey definitely had an allocation of one or two Class 03s over the years for the branch.