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Author Topic: Comments About Forum. Formerly:- apt  (Read 4305 times)

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Offline Tank

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Re: Comments About Forum. Formerly:- apt
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2017, 10:15:09 AM »
I really don't know how I can become clearer:-

Quote
We do not allow businesses to sell or advertise their goods on the forum without permission from the Admins - unless they are already paying to advertise on the forum.

Members JUST need to send me a PM to discuss it.  That is the rule!

Offline Steven B

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Re: Comments About Forum. Formerly:- apt
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2017, 11:05:19 AM »
Perhaps Tank and the Mom's need (on a new thread) to explain where they draw the line as to what constitutes advertising?

Is a thread on a 3d printed model together with  Shapeways page an advert?

Can a manufacturer announce a new product here without being acused of advertising or are all new products only to be put on NSF by independent third parties? If so, how do you prove independence?

Without some more clarification projects like Boxcar's APT will be lost to other forums.

Happy modeling.

Steven B

Offline njee20

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Re: Comments About Forum. Formerly:- apt
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2017, 11:18:15 AM »
Is a thread on a 3d printed model together with  Shapeways page an advert?

Can a manufacturer announce a new product here without being acused of advertising or are all new products only to be put on NSF by independent third parties? If so, how do you prove independence?

To be fair, Tank's been clear. It's all advertising, including independent third parties, unless you've sought permission, in which case it's fine. Clearly some people think that's overly draconian, but that is the rule.

Offline Sprintex

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Re: Comments About Forum. Formerly:- apt
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2017, 01:26:34 PM »
Perhaps Tank and the Mom's need (on a new thread) to explain where they draw the line as to what constitutes advertising?

Why? It's already quite clear

Quote
Is a thread on a 3d printed model together with  Shapeways page an advert?

Yes, because by posting a Shapeways page/link you are inviting people to purchase said item.

Quote
Can a manufacturer announce a new product here without being acused of advertising ...

No, because it's the same thing.


Paul


« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 01:27:40 PM by Sprintex »

Offline RailGooner

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Re: Comments About Forum. Formerly:- apt
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2017, 06:24:02 PM »
I have a great deal of sympathy with the Mods here.

The Rules for Advertising On The NGF amount to half a side of A4. The NGF Code of Conduct (which I wish had been locked from the start, before being mudding by 'Hello' type posts for which there is IMHO a better suited thread: Welcome to the NGF!) amounts to two sides of A4.

So I can find two and half sides of A4 covering the Rules. By joining the NGF, I effectively enter into a contract with the Rules being the terms of that contract. If I look at the terms of any other contract to which I'm a party I'll find enough to fill reams of A4.

Without the minutia of detailed legal blurb one finds in a professional contract, I think there will inevitably be some grey areas here. Areas were Tank and the Mods feel the rules are clear, but were some members are unclear - perhaps a member fails to grasp a subtlety in the meaning/intent of a rule, which is obvious to the author and upholders of that rule. I thought I understood the rules, but then this has me thinking...

Perhaps Tank and the Mom's need (on a new thread) to explain where they draw the line as to what constitutes advertising?

Why? It's already quite clear

Quote
Is a thread on a 3d printed model together with  Shapeways page an advert?

Yes, because by posting a Shapeways page/link you are inviting people to purchase said item.

Quote
Can a manufacturer announce a new product here without being acused of advertising ...

No, because it's the same thing.


Paul


Because that could be interpreted to mean my thread on Modellbahn-Kramm Bargains is a rule breaker for inviting folk to buy. And then there's the ebay and Bargain Basement boards. ???

One of the first things I learned in my professional engineering life was 'if in doubt, ask', and I think that might equally apply here...

I really don't know how I can become clearer:-

Quote
We do not allow businesses to sell or advertise their goods on the forum without permission from the Admins - unless they are already paying to advertise on the forum.

Members JUST need to send me a PM to discuss it.  That is the rule!

And yes, clearly it does apply here.

And at the end of the day, isn't this forum owned by Tank? So what are we doing arguing with him? Why are we arguing with each other? It seems to me more and more common that these spats erupt. I've been drawn into the odd spat myself. Perhaps we should have a rule that says 'when a member feels aggrieved by another member** the aggrieved member must make a cuppa tea*** and sit while quietly dunking biscuits, before they post a reply (which perhaps ought to be a PM rather than a forum post).'?

** I think we should also remember that Mods are members too. :-*

*** Other drinks are available, but none are as refreshing as a nice cuppa tea. :beers:

I apologize for any inaccurate assumptions/presumptions I've made in this post. Please don't shoot me.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 06:26:51 PM by RailGooner, Reason: disambiguation »
2021-07-02... Following a review of evidence, Soldier 'F' (formerly of 1st Battalion, Parachute Regiment) has been acquitted. In an unequivocal ruling, Mr Justice O’Hara found none of the Crown's evidence should be admitted to the trial. The cases against Soldiers 'A', 'B' and 'C' have also been dropped.

Per Ardua ad Astra | Mens Agitat Molem | Victoria Concordia Crescit | Utrinque Paratus | Caveat lector

Offline Steven B

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Re: Comments About Forum. Formerly:- apt
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2017, 07:44:22 PM »
I just find it very odd that anyone could offer to sell a 3d print via this Forum's N'porium acting as a middleman, I.e. taking the buyer's money, ordering it from Shapeways then sending it on in a week or two, all within the rules of the forum. Yet, it's not possible for someone to post a link to their own Shapeways shop front and remove the risk of the middleman by ordering direct.

Perhaps the rules on selling need tweeking for 3d prints?

Happy modelling.

Steven B

Offline njee20

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Re: Comments About Forum. Formerly:- apt
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2017, 07:48:56 PM »
I do agree with Steven, I must say. Particularly as it seems to be acceptable to say "I've designed a model, it's on Shapeways, have a look", without permission, but posting a link to said model is verboten. But, as RG says, this is Tank's forum, and no matter how daft we feel some rules may be they are there.

Offline DELETED

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Re: Comments About Forum. Formerly:- apt
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2017, 08:02:44 PM »
I missed the actual post in question but I think the mods are quite fair and open on here compared to other forums*. Not that I agree with them every single time but I respect their decision.  It would be nice to see this project come to fruition and I'm sure it could.

*this is however a very "delicate" forum in my experience, but rules are rules and that is how it is as anywhere else.

Offline Tank

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Re: Comments About Forum. Formerly:- apt
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2017, 08:16:34 PM »
I just find it very odd that anyone could offer to sell a 3d print via this Forum's N'porium acting as a middleman, I.e. taking the buyer's money, ordering it from Shapeways then sending it on in a week or two, all within the rules of the forum. Yet, it's not possible for someone to post a link to their own Shapeways shop front and remove the risk of the middleman by ordering direct.

Perhaps the rules on selling need tweeking for 3d prints?

Happy modelling.

Steven B

Come on, you're really picking at hairs here!  :D

All N'porium posts are vetted, and so are the advertisers.  This must be one of the safest places to buy models from because we're as careful as we can be regarding what is being sold and who from.

Again, no problem discussing with any person wishing to list what they're selling (even 3D prints!), just send me a message.

Offline daffy

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Re: Comments About Forum. Formerly:- apt
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2017, 09:37:34 PM »
@Tank

For the Forum:  :thankyousign:

Warm regards

A guest in your house.
Mike

Sufferin' succotash!

Offline Steven B

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Re: Comments About Forum. Formerly:- apt
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2017, 10:48:45 AM »
All N'porium posts are vetted, and so are the advertisers.  This must be one of the safest places to buy models from because we're as careful as we can be regarding what is being sold and who from.

I see your point, but if I were a mod I'd much rather someone get a 3d print direct from Shapeways, rather than take responsibility for a potentially dodgy sale that I've authorised.

Are the eBay adverts vetted? I see these as being more risky tan buying from Shapeways.

Happy modelling.

Steven B

Online Bealman

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Re: Comments About Forum. Formerly:- apt
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2017, 11:26:21 AM »
I am a mod.

I live in Australia.

I don't have any connections or business with Shapeways in the UK.

Any 3D printing I do, or our Aussie members, I'm sure, is done locally.

I'm sorry, Steven B, but I find your post offensive, especially as I live on the other side of the world and work hard to be part of the team that runs this forum.
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline red_death

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Re: Comments About Forum. Formerly:- apt
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2017, 11:37:43 AM »
I'm sorry, Steven B, but I find your post offensive, especially as I live on the other side of the world and work hard to be part of the team that runs this forum.

Why do you find it offensive? You might not agree with it, but it isn't offensive in anyway...

Half this thread is about an issue other than the APT (and could really do with being split into a new topic) and there is clearly an issue (it isn't always right to say thems the rules and tough - people often complain that suppliers don't participate and here we have a good example of perhaps part of why).  Rather than see things as an attack, perhaps we need to see if there is a way to make things better (for everyone).

Cheers, Mike



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Re: Comments About Forum. Formerly:- apt
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2017, 11:44:28 AM »
Point taken. Thank you.
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline Papyrus

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Re: Comments About Forum. Formerly:- apt
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2017, 01:00:28 PM »
Having just stumbled across this thread, it seems to me that rather more offence has been taken than was intended. Any set of rules is bound to have grey areas in it (look at the England-Italy rugby game a couple of weeks ago!). In this case, it should be down to Tank and the mods to decide what the intention of the disputed rule was and for the rest of us to abide by their decision.

There are a number of gradations in this publicity/advertising thing, which I think could be addressed as follows:

1. "I have noticed a gap in the market for GWR sprog-wodgets and am considering manufacturing them." - goes in a thread on the main board.

2. "I am designing/making the tooling/on the point of manufacturing GWR sprog-wodgets but can't put a price on them yet." - also on the main board.

3. "I now have GWR sprog-wodgets to sell and they will cost £xx." - a request to Tank to sell them via the Nporium to see whether there is a market, possibly with a time-limit of say a year.

4. "My GWR sprog-wodgets are a huge success and I am making a mint." - take out paid advertising and help to swell the Forum's coffers.

This will no doubt still leave grey areas, but might help to clarify things a bit.

Cheers,

Chris
A man who works with his hands is a labourer. A man who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman. A man who works with his hands and his head and his heart is an artist. - St Francis of Assisi.

 

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