Just a question about turnouts.

[Grassyfield]

Do you guys think its ok to solder wires / the frog etc with just a resin cored solder and not use flux, or is it important to use flux also. Sorry it's a completely different question im just curious to see what you guys think.

EDIT - Never mind sorry i forgot what i had been told already about it a while ago my bad.

[Bealman]

Resin cored solder is fine for all electrical wiring work on model railways.

[Grassyfield]

I'm confused about what wires are needed for a turnout.I have these for my pl 10 motor https://peco-uk.com/products/wiring-harness-for-pl10-series-turnout-motors . One of those wires goes to the frog, i thought this was all i needed.

Thank  you very much!!

[Bealman]

These wires go to the motor (solenoid) itself. Rules of an electrical circuit.

The green wire connects to both coils on one side of the motor (common earth, or ground if you like), the red connects to one of the coils on the other side of the motor, and the black to the other coil.

Depending on which coil you wish to energize, the circuit is completed with either the red or black.

But fleetingly only! Passing current continuously through the coil will simply burn it out. That's why a capacitor discharge unit (CDU) is recommended - either that or use passing contact switches.

[Grassyfield]

I know where the wires go but i dont know why/what else im supposed to wire up to the turn out. The red and black goes to motor to the rail and green to frog to motor. But what else.


I have Peco PL-13 Accessory Switch if thats what u mean by contact switches.

[Bealman]

I don't understand what you mean by motor to the rail, nor green to frog to motor.

The rail has nothing to do with it. Those 3 wires are simply to enable switching the point in one direction or the other.

The PL13 switch is for switching other things such as signals, or, as you suggest, point polarity. It is not a passing contact switch.

[Grassyfield]

I mean 2 wires go from the motor to the rail and 1 goes to the frog. I think i get it now for some reason i didn't. So ill need 2 add a second wire to the frog to power it, and feeders on top of the two wires that are going from motor to rails.

[chrism]

I mean 2 wires go from the motor to the rail and 1 goes to the frog. I think i get it now for some reason i didn't. So ill need 2 add a second wire to the frog to power it, and feeders on top of the two wires that are going from motor to rails.

No, no and thrice no.

If you've fitted dropper wires you should have three of these - one from the frog and one from each of the outer rails. These go to the accessory switch, NOT to the point motor itself. These are solely to provide power from the relevant outer rail to the frog, depending on which way the point is set, and should never be connected to the point motor solenoids nor to the switch in the control panel.

You will then require three different wires from the control panel, which go to the point motor itself as per Bealman's post #48. As he says, the power through these wires should only be momentarily connected to the power source (either 16v AC or 12vDC) using passing contact switches, centre sprung two way switches (which are "off" in the centre position) or stud and probe where a wandering lead connected to the centre terminal on the point motor is briefly touched onto a stud connected to each of the other two terminals.
However the ideal way with any of these is via a CDU which takes 16v AC and converts it to around 25v DC to provide a good strong impulse to move the point but will only provide that briefly so there is no risk of burning out a solenoid.

Bt the way, the wires from the control panel switch and/or CDU to the point motor solenoids need to be good, thick ones - at least 16/0.2 - since even a short length of thinner wire will have sufficient resistance to prevent the motor throwing the point across reliably.
The droppers for the frog switching can be thinner if needed, 7/0.2 is sufficient for those since they are only feeding track power over a very short distance..

[Steven B]

@Grassyfield it sounds like you're getting rather mixed up as a result of some poor or OO gauge orientated YouTube videos.

Have a read through the instructions that came with the point and motor. The get yourself a copy of Peco's series of booklets on wiring your layout. They're about £1 each and should be easy to get hold of.

These will take you through how to wire your track and point work in a simple, easy to follow method.

If you're still confused, find someone nearby with a layout where you can see a point motor installed.

Steven B

[chrism]

Brian Lambert's site is a useful resource.

Point motor wiring is on Electrical page 2;
https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical-Page-2.html

and frog switching on page 3;
https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical-Page-3.html

[Grassyfield]

What am i connecting to the turn out exactly. All this is too complicated for me i dont understand any thing im reading. I just want to know what wires i need to solder to the turn out so i can glue the two i have down finally and finally complete this loop and then i can worry about all this stuff after. I have holes ready for the rod and i have holes ready for the frogs, but i cant glue them down untill i have soldered the frogs so i cna put wire through baseboard, i know i can do the putting the motor on and put the rod through the whole some other time ion future, i just want this loop completeted. So if youj can just tell me that and ill figure out this other motor stuff when i need 2 cos i cant at moment.

Thank you sorry also.

[njee20]

For the turnout itself you don't need any wires. I'll take its power from the adjacent track. You can fit droppers to the outer rails of course.

For the motor you have three wires. The common goes to your power supply, the others go to a passing contact switch. One for the closed state and one for thrown. The other wire from your power supply also goes to the turnout switch (the one which actually controls your points), completing the circuit.

For the polarity switch (optional, operated by the motor) you have an additional three wires. One to the frog, one to each rail/bus.

You seem to still be reading or watching stuff which is misleading, incorrect or confusing. There is a lot of excellent advice in this thread. Brian Lambert's website spells this out very simply.

[nickk]

As others have said the works of Mr Lambert are invaluable for this sort of thing. I am absolutely no expert at all but if you're getting confused how about initially forgetting any connections to the rails or frog. Just get the point motor working with the switch and power supply to start with. Once you have that working them worry about connections to the rails and the frog 

[Grassyfield]

https://peco-uk.com/products/wiring-harness-for-pl10-series-turnout-motors?variant=7435676876834

Can i use 2 of these 3 these wires to solder to my 2 turn outs because im going to be using when i can find some 22ga wire for feeders ( i cant find any at moment ) and im not sure what size these are exactly, so does that matter or is it perfectly fine to use these even though not same colour and possibly size as all feeders etc.

[ntpntpntp]

As discussed on previous PMs, these will be fine for the frog wire and power to the changeover switch.  Not the cheapest way of buying wire, but if you can't find anything else at the moment then use them.

Don't get hung up on finding exact gauges of wire for different jobs on the layout eg. droppers, use what you can get as long as it's not really fine stuff (and even then it would probably work for the very short lengths we use for feeders). If it's larger stuff it will work fine but might be a bit unsightly when soldered to the rail.  Just make sure it's a multi-strand wire for flexibility, and capable of carrying around 1-2 amps.