State of British N Gauge

[Leon]

At the risk of straying slightly off the 'British' N Gauge title of this topic, Can I ask our overseas members if Steam railway modelling is as strongly catered for where they live ? And what proportion of modelling is of a modern day as opposed to Steam?

I've not observed enough layouts in the US to respond definitively, but as we have few operating vintage railways compared to the UK, my impression is that most RR modellers here are modelling modern day. That's more a hunch than anything more. I've been modelling for less than a year and my previous exposure to rail was in the UK, so I've chosen to model UK steam with maybe a diesel rail car.

Leon

[Leon]

My apologies if any attempts in the past to encourage on my part have been taken negatively by others.

Atso, I cannot disagree with anything you've said, and you owe me no apology! I posted because sometimes I feel inferior in this hobby for choosing to enjoy RTR rolling stock and ready-built layout components. It needs to be acknowledged there are multiple types of modellers, including those who like to do as much as possible from scratch and those (like me) who want to buy ready-made to integrate into an original layout design and landscape creation. There's space for all of us in the hobby and things to learn from each other. Advocating for more people to attempt building from scratch is a worthy cause, also. If I were younger, I might be a disciple, though like others who have commented, I know I don't have the talent and would not likely be able to learn the skills required. That's why I've bought paintings rather than paint my own (I have taken lessons and proven my ineptitude!).

Leon

[exmouthcraig]

I am not a prolific kit builder. I buy a rake of 10 peco wagons probably every 6 - 8 weeks but glueing a chassis to a 4 sided box isn't kit building. The only reason I do this is to allow me rakes of 15-20 wagons, yes they get painted, they get the right decals, they get weathered. They look passable as a rake of wagons.

I modify our original GF locos with Buffer beam and Headcode discs, I have renumbered a few of them and weathered them but don't fancy repainting one or even building 1. Hopefully a friend in the process will be building a couple of near impossibles for us.

I dont even fancy building coach kits yet, im scared of them not running true and as much as I want Bulleid Kitchen cars they might as well be Mk3 Virgin coaches they'll be so obvious in our rakes of Farish RTR.

I am a carpenter and roofer by trade, I love nothing more then scaling photos, producing drawings and my own scale version of the build. I usually use brass windows and plasticard, plastruct and brick papers but know how buildings are built and what each part is and should be.

ALL of the boards, trackwork, wiring, landscaping and every building from a store shed to the engine shed and water tower have been built by me. I can build a good building for my RTR locos and stock to sit in.

I'm happy with my RTR as long as my buildings are accurate, I know them!! I think the only loco ill try to build this year will be the old Airfix Merchant Navy for £10, I can justify ruining that.

[emjaybee]

I had no idea that there was this much apathy and, in some cases, hostility towards kit/scratch building and/or those who take the time to try and encourage others to have a go at these things - some (not necessarily here) admittedly, need to work on their delivery from time to time.

Its funny how different people interpret the same conversation in an entirely different way.

I don't see any apathy toward kit building. I don't see any hostility towards kit builders.

I do 'feel' a degree of dismissive attitude towards non kit builders, to the degree that some comments seem to belittle those that choose not to build or indeed can't build.

I hope that those that CAN build continue to post examples of their work and continue to answer questions from the rest of us. The forum would be a lesser place without their input and knowledge, but please be patient with us of a lesser talent.

[PLD]

As I see it, the hobby is broad enough for those who wish to scratchbuild miniature marvels and those who are happy to simply 'play' with ready to use equipment. I would not decry either extreme for enjoying the hobby as they wish, but I do take issue with anyone using derogatory names for anyone who follows a different path or criticises an approach they haven't attempted themselves.

Personally I'm not afraid to tackle a kit build (yet to successfully complete a scratch built chassis but doesn't stop the occasional dabbling/experimenting). For me Ready to Run is a 'convenience' product - a short cut and a timesaver.
If there is a decent quality ready to run version of something I want, that's great - I'll almost certainly buy it, chances are I wouldn't be able to do better for the same cost, and it saves hours of time that can then be put into other areas such as scenery or items of stock that aren't available off the shelf. But if there isn't one ready to run - well it's not the end of the world...

[njee20]

I had no idea that there was this much apathy and, in some cases, hostility towards kit/scratch building and/or those who take the time to try and encourage others to have a go at these things - some (not necessarily here) admittedly, need to work on their delivery from time to time.

While I can only speak for myself, I post my own efforts on here for two reasons; one to get feedback on what I can do better and, two, to try and inspire others that they can progress and learn new skills. Go back ten years and I would have never dreamed that I would be doing what I'm doing now. Similarly with the prints I offer for sale, I try and make these as straight forward as possible (always test building and making refinements as necessary) and, if something requires too much modification or too many donor parts from many models, I don't offer it for sale.
...

While I do appreciate that there are those who find no appeal in kit/scratch building or physically cannot build, I am deeply saddened that attempts to try to inspire others to attempt things they would otherwise not tried, is looked on so negatively and has created such a strong reaction.

My apologies if any attempts in the past to encourage on my part have been taken negatively by others.

That seems more than a little disproportionate, and I presume is aimed at me. Inspiring people is great, and no one, least of all me, has said that you shouldn't post pictures, continuing inspiring people, promoting kit building etc. I always enjoy seeing the work of others who achieve things far beyond what I can, or am ever likely to be able to do. I said, and I reiterate, that I've not particularly seen it on this thread, but a common response to anyone saying "I'd like x, y,z RTR" is that a kit is available, often said in a sneering and disparaging tone, and often with things like "you could do some modelling *rolls eyes*". This is no more helpful than calling people rivet counters if they say they want things correct. The kit builders are generally the dismissive ones, not the non-kit builders. I've never heard of people who want RTR stuff denigrating those who build kits as you suggest, whilst "box openers" is a commonly levelled term for those who just want RTR, for whatever reason, as is their prerogative.

Again, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with saying "y'know so and so does a kit of that?", I'm specifically talking about the overt negativity that can accompany an "I wish this model was available RTR", please stop trying so hard to be offended!

[Newportnobby]

I had no idea that there was this much apathy and, in some cases, hostility towards kit/scratch building and/or those who take the time to try and encourage others to have a go at these things - some (not necessarily here) admittedly, need to work on their delivery from time to time.

While I do appreciate that there are those who find no appeal in kit/scratch building or physically cannot build, I am deeply saddened that attempts to try to inspire others to attempt things they would otherwise not tried, is looked on so negatively and has created such a strong reaction.

My apologies if any attempts in the past to encourage on my part have been taken negatively by others.

@Atso
I don't believe my post showed any apathy or hostility. It was merely an explanation of why I cannot go as far as loco building. I'm happy to buy a Peco wagon kit and bin it if I large chicken it up but not a loco body + chassis. I have always been extremely supportive of loco builders such as yourself, Dr Al and the others on the forum who produce such masterpieces. Apart from a train set when I was aged 8-10 my modelling has always been in N but sadly I have watched my capabilities ebb away. Despite this I have no intention of going over to 'the dark side' whilever I can create a track plan and landscape for my purchased stock to run through. When I can't I'll know I'm fit only for the knackers yard and buy that one way ticket to Switzerland.

[NeMo]

I don't see any apathy toward kit building. I don't see any hostility towards kit builders.

Nor did I.

I do 'feel' a degree of dismissive attitude towards non kit builders, to the degree that some comments seem to belittle those that choose not to build or indeed can't build.

Absolutely. Kit building is an art that takes time to develop, and no everyone will get good at it, any more than not everyone will be a great dancer or cook. This hobby has many facets, and not everyone is good at all of them -- and that's fine. We do this for fun, and we should only be expected to do the bits we enjoy -- otherwise it stops being a fun hobby. Everyone should have a go at a simple wagon kit, yes, but expecting "real" modelling to involve something beyond strikes me as overambitious.

Anyone who thinks kit-building is the solution to the lack of a ready to run model of, say, some DMU or steam locomotive is (if we're being honest) delusional. Not saying these aren't laudable projects for some modellers, but they're not easy! The skills required take years to master, the tool kits needed are expensive to assemble, and by the time you factor in tools, paint and transfers, the cost easily exceeds that of a ready to run locomotive.

It's kind of like when people say you can avoid expensive garage bills by just fixing your car yourself. Well, yes, you could, but realistically it's not going to be a practical solution for most motorists.

Cheers, NeMo

[Adam1701D]

Not all kits are complicated or difficult - some of my conversions are as easy as applying stickers to a coach. 3D Printing has also opened up a huge range of possibilities for locos and units that would be uneconomic for the big RTR producers to manage. 

[dannyboy]

This hobby has many facets, and not everyone is good at all of them

Just to take the comment by @NeMo a bit further -

Can we not all agree that some people are good at doing somethings, whereas others are good at doing something else - we are all different  . That's what makes this world a nice place to be in, (normally!).

[exmouthcraig]

Didn't someone famous say

'If we educated everyone  who would empty our bins

Now not suggesting bin men or Refuse Collection Operatives are the uneducated sort BUT we all have our own skill set, this comment simply meant some people are very clever acadmically and others are clever practically. I can build you an extension and fix your roof but I can't do open heart surgery. I might be able to but I'm never going to try. I know my limits

I can build a replica building BUT dcc wiring and programming scares me immensely. I read all these thing that people suggest doing with all kinds of electric wizardry and understand none of it.

We aren't producing OUR layout for anyone but ourselves and we passify running a steam hauled Pullman beside a pendilino beside a 4cep as RULE 1. As long as OUR layout pleases US many can agree it's good, some may suggest brilliant others may say it's the biggest piece of s#$@ ever seen but it's OUR hobby not OUR business. Manufacturers have to be good to survive we don't have to be 100% accurate.

[railsquid]

At the risk of straying slightly off the 'British' N Gauge title of this topic, Can I ask our overseas members if Steam railway modelling is as strongly catered for where they live ? And what proportion of modelling is of a modern day as opposed to Steam?

It would appear that Japanese railways are reasonably well catered for with regard to kits. The site/blog below is in Japanese but Chrome does a reasonable job of translating it and it shows some interesting builds.

http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~toyoyasu/handycrafts.htm

There does see to be a relatively large market for kits here, and even one annual exhibition heavily orientated around kits, accessories/afterparts etc.

[Michael Shillabeer]

http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~toyoyasu/handycrafts.htm

Further searching finds that a lot of kits are sold out. I've found this though which is rather tempting https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10312401 however, how do you roll a brass boiler? Substitute a brass tube?

Cheers
Michael

[port perran]

Didn't someone famous say

'If we educated everyone  who would empty our bins

Now not suggesting bin men or Refuse Collection Operatives are the uneducated sort BUT we all have our own skill set, this comment simply meant some people are very clever acadmically and others are clever practically. I can build you an extension and fix your roof but I can't do open heart surgery. I might be able to but I'm never going to try. I know my limits

I can build a replica building BUT dcc wiring and programming scares me immensely. I read all these thing that people suggest doing with all kinds of electric wizardry and understand none of it.

We aren't producing OUR layout for anyone but ourselves and we passify running a steam hauled Pullman beside a pendilino beside a 4cep as RULE 1. As long as OUR layout pleases US many can agree it's good, some may suggest brilliant others may say it's the biggest piece of s#$@ ever seen but it's OUR hobby not OUR business. Manufacturers have to be good to survive we don't have to be 100% accurate.

Very well put indeed.

[Paddy]

... something built by someone (to whatever standard) is somewhat more interesting that a dull RTR only world....

With respect, some of us just don't want to build locomotives! We are willing to model landscape and buildings, maybe (to the necessary extent), but we can love locomotives and rolling stock and want to have models of the real thing without building them.

I've been an art collector all my life. Early on, I read an opinion that a good reproduction was better than a poor original.  Being interested in collecting originals, I wasn't convinced. After forty years I absolutely DO agree. While you may be satisfied with your locomotive build (which is perfectly acceptable), many of us would not be satisfied. I don't recall ever seeing a Kit-built locomotive that satisfied my visual sensitivities.

Leon

Hi Leon,

Whilst I agree that a considerable number of kit built models can and do lack the finesse of RTR there are some master craftsmen out there.  I marvel at some of the models that Tony Wright creates and Ian Rathbone paint.  IMHO these are the equal if not better than a lot of RTR (although they are in OO).

When I was a child, a neighbour who was an engineer built all his own locomotives and rolling stock from scratch.  It took him ages to create a model (especially a locomotive) but the results were mind blowing.  He even built all his own track!  This was all in Gauge 1.

No doubt there are modellers in N gauge who can create models from kits/scratch that rival RTR.  At the end of the day, ones level of acceptance is a personal thing.  Like you, I love RTR as the fidelity and finish these days is wonderful.  Having said that, I have modified and improved some rolling stock for my personal enjoyment.

Collecting, modelling - it is all the same to me.  If you are enjoying your N gauge hobby then great.

Paddy