Sonic 51xx Large Prairie - Disappointing Runner

[Hailstone]

I received 3 of these yesterday - please see my comments here: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=59443.150

Regards,

Alex

[JohnR]

As a recent newcomer to model railways and specifically n gauge, I bought a Sonic prairie from Rails to compliment a Dapol 57xx pannier. The prairie runs very well on kato track but had  an issue on one turnout, constantly derailing. I modified the turnout and it now runs through ok. The pannier on the other hand stuttered and hesitated continually despite running in. I spoke to Rails and they advised me to return it so they could check it out. I received a tested replacement within a week which runs properly. I know this post doesn't resolve any of the issues others have had, but so far, my limited experience of Rails' service has been a positive one.

[Newportnobby]

Drifting off topic, welcome to the forum, John.
How about a post in the 'Introduction' section to tell us what you're up to in N?

[Bealman]

Yep, G'day from Australia, mate, and welcome to the NGF! 

Was it a Kato #4 point?

[JohnR]

Thank you for the welcome, Newportnobby and Bealman. Apologies to everyone for interrupting this thread I've not interacted with forums before. In answer to your question, yes it was a Kato 4# point.

[Firstone18]

I could return the loco but I want a 51XX of my choice, not a refund. This is not the first time that I have received a 'tested' loco that has a running issue.

I was aware of the other thread referred to earlier but hadn't read enough of it to realise that the pre-production discussion had continued post production. Now that I have read through it all and have watched a video of a 51XX creeping along in a way that mine cannot, I'm irritated even more about how I have been fobbed off.

After several hours of continuous running, pulling a rake of a half dozen Mk1 coaches, the behaviour of my 51XX hasn't changed - it still has a slight limp and the driving wheels slip on every point frog. Time to give the pony truck spring shortening a go me thinks.

I had similar problems with the same seller on Sonic's first loco; I don't believe the 'tested' sticker means what it says; probably only run up and down a straight piece of track. I rejected a third loco as the livery I wanted was not available, and chose a Dapol Schools. I tried two of those, both were awful. I then tried a GF WD; it ran fine for about 4 weeks then stopped. It went back for a refund, but I was offered a 'tested' replacement after the seller agreed it had failed which I reluctantly accepted. The replacement WD has, so far, run well. This experience has put me off purchasing unless I can a) purchase at a show, and b) test it before leaving the show. Not all sellers offer a test track, even a straight one. I will often ask an exhibitor if they will help me, or better still if the NGS stand is there get it tested there. It is about time manufacturers concentrated more on the mechanisms rather than putting so much detail on the loco which cannot be seen at more than arms length by most of us oldies. Just my feelings. cheers

[Roy L S]

Everyone has their own view, but personally I don't think there should have to to be a trade-off between detail and performance. I absolutely love the level of detail on N Gauge models these days and would never want to go back to the days of Poole Graham Farish with all detail moulded on.

I haven't had many problems with recent locos running wise, from memory just a sound fitted Rapido Class 28 where the sound chip blew (turned out to be a fault with some of the Loksound chips so not the loco's fault) plus it would have to be said my two Sonic J50s which run OK in a straight line but have developed an issue where they "stutter" when they hit a curve. I haven't identified the problem yet, but as most people don't seem to have had an issue it is unlikely to be anything inherent in the chassis design.

All my recent Farish locos run superbly, both steam and diesel, not a single issue (touch wood).

Roy

[Southerngooner]

I have to agree with Roy regarding the performance of modern N locos. We've gone through most of them when exhibiting James Street, and while there have been a few rogues that have had to be replaced, in the main they've all proved reliable runners and haulers. The world does seem to have got into a moaning mentality since social media came along, and small issues can get magnified when one person gets a dodgy model and splashes videos or posts all over the net, often massively inflating the apparent scale of the problem. If it's new and defective, send it back for replacement, which has always been the case even since the early days of UK N.

In terms of secondhand locos, I won't buy unless I can see it tested, or more preferably, test it myself. I've had a few good bargains from eBay and the like, but I much prefer buying at a show where I can test it on the layout. We are always open to test locos for people on James Street, so never be afraid to ask! I'm sure many other exhibitors are the same.

Dave

[Bealman]

I can confirm that. After buying a loco from @Newportnobby in York last year (not that I div'nt trust you, Mick), I was graciously allowed to run it on JS. 

I bought a GWR railcar sight unseen from @dannyboy of this parish, and it's great! I trust the classifieds on here, my rationale being we're not likely to rip each other off.

[Bazza]

It is about time manufacturers concentrated more on the mechanisms rather than putting so much detail on the loco which cannot be seen at more than arms length by most of us oldies. Just my feelings.

I don't believe there is, or has to be, a trade off between such things. There's no reason why models can't be engineered and manufactured to have high fidelity and detail, and great performance and operation. I'm sure manufacturers try to achieve both rather than concentrating on one to the detriment of the other.

[Cols]

At the risk of being told that I'm a bit late joining this discussion, I'm going to chuck my hat in the ring!

I have two of the Sonic Large Prairies, but have had traction problems with both.

On receiving the first one from Rails (4141), I read, and followed exactly, the instruction sheet - and ran the loco, non-stop, for (over) an hour in each direction at a medium speed: it was almost silent, and very smooth right from the start. I was delighted. After the two hour's running in, I placed a Dapol B-set behind it... and it slipped badly - even on straight track. I then ran it bunker-first which improved matters, but it still slipped on a fairly gentle curve. So, more out of curiosity than any technical insight, I ran it (light) for another 30 minutes in each direction. I don't know what that extra hour did, but it will now confidently haul 4 or 5 Hawksworth coaches - with no slipping. Maybe all that running-in has compressed the springing of the pony trucks...

So, I bought another one (4156) a couple of weeks ago...To start with, both front smokebox to front footplate struts had come adrift in the box (I gather that this is a common problem...). Having  fixed this issue (not easy when partially blind...), the loco was run-in in the same way as the previous model. It ran beautifully - until, after running-in, two coaches were put behind it. The loco absolutely refused to move - it just slipped, and slipped, and - well, you get the picture... So, out of sheer exasperation, I decided to remove the spring from the front pony truck. I did initially clip it, but then decided to get rid of it altogether. 4156 now hauls what I want and at the speeds that I want. One of my fellow NGS Area Group members has postulated that it may be a good idea to remove both pony-truck springs altogether.

This experience with springing, makes me wonder how well the forthcoming Dapol WC/BB Pacific locos (for which I've waited for 13? years!!), and their GWR Mogul and revised Manor, will behave with their compensated centre driving wheels - it sounds like a great idea - but the proof of the pudding...

In short, I'm very pleased with my models of 4141 and 4156. Though I rather doubt that I should have experienced these Quality Control/technical issues, which may well put some people off from considering purchases of future Sonic products.

Now to go - and pray for an ROD 2-8-0 in GCR/LNER/GWR guise, and the hitherto overlooked BR Standard 4MT 4-6-0, and a Southern S15 4-6-0... and a re-run of the Bachmann-Farish 64xx and the 4MT 2-6-4T, and the SR C Class 0-6-0. Oh, and will Bachmann-Farish seriously consider putting a close coupling mechanism on their Mk.1 non-gangwayed passenger coaches..?

[Newportnobby]

Now to go - and pray for an ROD 2-8-0 in GCR/LNER/GWR guise, and the hitherto overlooked BR Standard 4MT 4-6-0, and a Southern S15 4-6-0... and a re-run of the Bachmann-Farish 64xx and the 4MT 2-6-4T, and the SR C Class 0-6-0. Oh, and will Bachmann-Farish seriously consider putting a close coupling mechanism on their Mk.1 non-gangwayed passenger coaches..?

Strewth! You don't want much, do you?  

[Cols]

Newport Nobby is absolutely right - I don't want much!  Just more good quality locos of what an old friend of mine once described as "run of the mill, every-day locos": not just the big  like A3s or Princess Coronations - or even big 4-6-0s like Kings, or Royal Scots. That's why I'm hoping for such every-day locos such as an S15 or a 42/52XX.
So, when Sonic announced their Large Prairies, I was delighted - and, aside from the initial problems caused by the over-enthusiastic pony-truck springing, I am delighted with my pair. There was the problem of the smokebox to front footplate struts becoming detached/lost; one of my fellow Area Group members replaced the missing/detached items, and I've super-glued them. I'm not fitting DCC chips to the models as I'm a DC modeller, so I will have no need to access the interior "gubbins".
By the way, my pair of Dapol 45XX/4575 small prairie tanks continue to to give exemplary service - and, yes I know they've got solid backed wheels, but this "fault" is not really noticeable when these locos are on the track, whether stationary or in motion.

[Newportnobby]

Newport Nobby is absolutely right - I don't want much!  Just more good quality locos of what an old friend of mine once described as "run of the mill, every-day locos": not just the big  like A3s or Princess Coronations - or even big 4-6-0s like Kings, or Royal Scots. That's why I'm hoping for such every-day locos such as an S15 or a 42/52XX.

I do sometimes think the bigger locos are aimed at the younger modeller who is maybe not aware of the mundane or everyday classes many of us who remember them hanker after.

By the way, my pair of Dapol 45XX/4575 small prairie tanks continue to to give exemplary service - and, yes I know they've got solid backed wheels, but this "fault" is not really noticeable when these locos are on the track, whether stationary or in motion.

My old (first run) Dapol 45xx is a smooth enough runner but does take off like a scalded cat regardless of controller type. I just feel it looks a bit 'concertinaed'

[Cols]

  Having read Newport Nobby's reply to my latest ramblings, I thoroughly agree that the main manufacturers seem to concentrate on the junior market by reproducing the Biggest, Fastest, Poshest, and Most Spectacular locos.
  My layout, when complete(!) will represent a fictional resort town on the North Cornish coast during 1959-63, it is (supposedly) served by a branch line from Barnstaple (Western Region) and a branch which leaves the North Cornwall Line (Southern Region) a few miles west of Launceston. So my "largest loco" requirements are Bulleid Light Pacifics (unrebuilt) and "Halls" and "Manors" - Class N locos, 2P tanks, and T9s, form the "backbone" of my Southern workings; 2251s, Large and Small Prairie tanks, and pannier tanks are the "backbone" of the Western's workings. So you see, anything Western or Southern up to Class 5 in BR power terms is all I need - I also have a "Hymek" and a North British Type 2 diesel-hydraulic (I refuse to use the TOPS Class 22 code!). So, by now, the more perceptive among you will have realised that I am a fussy old fart who only wants to run the appropriate locos for secondary main lines West of Taunton and West of Exeter Central: no "Kings", "Merchant Navies", "Castles", "King Arthurs", "Counties", or "Schools"!
  So far, Dapol and GF/Bachmann have largely met my loco needs, but I am utterly baffled/frustrated by Dapol's seemingly irrational decision to issue their High-Window Maunsell stock only in the pre-war SR lined olive green livery, what about the 20+ years they spent in Crimson/Cream and BR(S) green??? And, why have GF/Bachmann chosen to neglect the BR(S) Green in their latest releases of the Bulleid coaches?
  Speaking of the Bulleid coaches from GF/Bachmann, I'm sure that I'm not the only N-Gauge modeller who wishes that they had produced the Diagram 2406 BCK (a loose vehicle for through branch-line workings) and, perhaps, the Diagram 2405 BCK (for the 2-car sets Nos. 63 - 75). In the case of the 2-car sets, GF/Bachmann could have sold them as a pair as the BTK/BSK is already produced by them...
  Now, what about some decent R-T-R Collett "pre-Sunshine" stock? But, I think I'd better stop here, as I'm well off the original topic - however, I do feel better for getting this off my chest!!
  Perhaps there ought to be a thread on much wanted R-T-R Carriage Stock - and, even NPCCS..?