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Author Topic: The angry thread  (Read 686930 times)

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guest311

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Re: The angry thread
« Reply #7860 on: March 17, 2022, 10:10:08 PM »
am I the only one baffled by P&O's action today ?

as I always understood it, you did not make a person redundant, but the job that he did.

IIRC you could not 're-create' that job for IIRC 6 months after it had been made redundant.

so, how can you 'sack' hundreds of workers 'on the grounds of redundancy' and have replacements waiting on the dockside to take over their jobs ?

or do workers no longer have any rights ?
or do overseas owners not have to comply with the laws of the countries they operate in ?
 :censored:

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: The angry thread
« Reply #7861 on: March 18, 2022, 12:47:42 PM »
I've already posted on another forum that I believe P & O's action to be not only heartless, cruel and cowardly but, like you, believe it also to be illegal.
I'm not debating whether or not some kind of action is necessary to save the company but it's the way they have gone about it that my comments above refer to.
No doubt there will now be panic buying as folks see footage of lorries stranded everywhere

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Re: The angry thread
« Reply #7862 on: March 18, 2022, 01:32:38 PM »
There is an exemption from 'normal' UK employment law for people classed as 'seafarers' whose employment and other rights are governed by the Maritime Labour Convention, which came into force in the UK in 2014.  I have a feeling we will hear a lot more about this over the next few days while people attempt to work out if this, in my view, very badly-handled situation is legal or not.
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Offline Malc

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Re: The angry thread
« Reply #7863 on: March 18, 2022, 01:45:36 PM »
What I donít understand about P &O is their logic. When I was a manager and had to hire agency staff to cover an unexpected shortage, they cost more than my regular staff. The actual workers were on roughly the same rate but the agency costs put the price up. Since there are no cheap foreign workers anymore because of you know what, how will it work?
The years have been good to me, it was the weekends that did the damage.

guest311

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Re: The angry thread
« Reply #7864 on: March 18, 2022, 01:46:51 PM »
discussing this with a neighbour, he said he understood that P&O ferries were owned by a Dubai company, and are separate from P&O cruises which are apparently owned by a US company.

however ...
do they not operate under the red duster, ie operate as UK merchant vessels ?

if so, surely they should be subject to the rules of the country who's flag they fly ?

I cannot but wonder who supplies the 'agency' crews.

no doubt this will carry on for some while, I just feel sorry, as well as for the 'sacked' crews, for those people who decided that with a good forecast for the weekend decided to pop across the ENGLISH Channel for a weekend break, and now cannot.

whatever happened to Sealink ?
I wonder how long it will take them to get their money back.

guest311

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Re: The angry thread
« Reply #7865 on: March 18, 2022, 02:54:01 PM »
What I donít understand about P &O is their logic. When I was a manager and had to hire agency staff to cover an unexpected shortage, they cost more than my regular staff. The actual workers were on roughly the same rate but the agency costs put the price up. Since there are no cheap foreign workers anymore because of you know what, how will it work?

I remember when I was on the AA I went out to a nurse at PRH, and while chatting it turned out she had been made redundant, and was now an agency nurse.

she had finished on a friday on her ward, and was back on the same ward on the monday, as an agency nurse, but could not do some of the things she had been able to do as an NHS nurse because she was agency.
and she was still on about the same pay, and as you say, the agency then charge on top.

really makes sound economic sense, doesn't it  :hmmm:

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Re: The angry thread
« Reply #7866 on: March 18, 2022, 04:34:45 PM »
Certainly many of the Dover crews have contracts of employment based in Jersey, which will affect the legal aspects. I suspect that customer reaction will convince P&O Ferries that they may have misjudged the market. There is plenty of spare capacity on the other ferries and Eurotunnel vehicle shuttles on the Dover Straits. Admittedly fewer alternatives for the other UK routes.
Mike

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guest311

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Re: The angry thread
« Reply #7867 on: March 18, 2022, 05:21:13 PM »
I may be being sceptical [what, me ?? :D ]
but is the main advantage of using agency staff that you don't need to worry about sick pay, holiday pay etc, it's just a case of 'I am paying for 20 bodies, you supply them'  :hmmm:

Offline cycletrak9

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Re: The angry thread
« Reply #7868 on: March 18, 2022, 05:47:44 PM »
Not quite sure whether to put this on the angry thread as I'm not really angry or on jokes as it is rather amusing. What I really need is a thread for "Bemused and totally baffled"

We have a contract with British Gas to cover household breakdowns and part of this is an annual boiler check. Last December I got a reminder that it was due and booked on line for 10 January 2022. The date duly arrived but no sign of an engineer. After half an hour of trying to negotiate the BG website I gave up and re-booked for 7 March but again no sign of the engineer. Somewhat incensed I got on to BG via an "online chat". I explained that I'd been let down twice and was a bit miffed. A third appointment was arranged for 14 March which this time was kept and the boiler pronounced sound of wind and limb.
This morning I have received a letter from BG dated 4 March telling me that the appointment has been rearranged for 11 March and apologising for any convenience!

I have to say that I'm happy with BG for the supply side of things but their admin brings to mind the words "booze up" and "Brewery" 

Offline stevewalker

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Re: The angry thread
« Reply #7869 on: March 18, 2022, 09:25:05 PM »
What I donít understand about P &O is their logic. When I was a manager and had to hire agency staff to cover an unexpected shortage, they cost more than my regular staff. The actual workers were on roughly the same rate but the agency costs put the price up. Since there are no cheap foreign workers anymore because of you know what, how will it work?

The figures quoted in the news tonight were that British crew are paid up to £28 per hour, while the replacement Eastern European crew are paid only £2.60 per hour ... so there is lots of leeway for agency fees, while still being significantly cheaper.

I can understand ocean-going crew being under different pay rules than land-based workers, but for a ferry, going back and forth between two countries, surely they should be paying the going rates for at least one of those countries and not the exploitative, pitifully low wages of a third country?

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: The angry thread
« Reply #7870 on: March 18, 2022, 09:48:28 PM »

The figures quoted in the news tonight were that British crew are paid up to £28 per hour, while the replacement Eastern European crew are paid only £2.60 per hour ... so there is lots of leeway for agency fees, while still being significantly cheaper.


If that's correct it's just atrocious, especially with a national minimum wage of £9.50 (over 23s) and is pure exploitation of desperate people :o

Offline dannyboy

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Re: The angry thread
« Reply #7871 on: March 18, 2022, 10:00:05 PM »

If that's correct it's just atrocious, especially with a national minimum wage of £9.50 (over 23s) and is pure exploitation of desperate people

And if it is correct, the 'agency' ( :hmmm:) will probably be based in a country that has never heard of minimum wage.
David.
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Offline acook

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Re: The angry thread
« Reply #7872 on: March 19, 2022, 01:27:27 AM »
Re: "Agency" workers:
The advantage to a business is no National insurance,Employer or employee,  tax, sick, holiday, or in fact any "payroll processing" at all.
As it happens, P & O Ferries is registered at Companies house, no. 237626.
The last filing that is accessible says in the year to 31/12/2019 they lost £69M and in the year to 31/12/2020 they made £63M profit.
There is also mention of the pension schemes, there are final salary(Defined benefit) schemes which are causing them a bit of grief.
When covid hit they applied and got a pension contribution holiday.
This is something else using "agency " workers means you do not have to involve yourself in.
Notwithstanding seafaring rules being different to landbased, anybody paying £2.60 an hour in a supposedly civilised society needs stringing up, not necessarily by the neck.

Alan(ex Construction so redundant more times than most)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2022, 01:29:04 AM by acook »

guest311

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Re: The angry thread
« Reply #7873 on: March 19, 2022, 09:57:32 AM »
not intended in any way as a 'political comment', but a question...

1. if the NHS cannot bring in overseas doctors and nurses as they used to
2. if the transport industry cannot bring in overseas drivers, as they used to
3  if the farmers can no longer bring in the seasonal overseas workers they used to

then how can P&O bring in 800 'eastern european' workers and pay them poverty wages ?

something is seriously wrong with this world.

the sceptical me can't help but wonder if the £2.60 an hour is before or after deductions for food and accomodation charges  >:D

guest311

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Re: The angry thread
« Reply #7874 on: March 23, 2022, 05:10:17 PM »
well, I've worked out why their Tesco price increase were not, as commented on tv by their CEO, in the low to mid 5%...

went into local Tesco today, and they are all getting new uniforms...

not the old dark blue..

now a bright blue..

isn't it nice to know that while prices rise, over inflation, the reason is at one retailer because they need to give their staff a new uniform !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

one staff member I spoke to said she'd ordered a new top, which arrived last week in the old style dark blue, then she'd received her new bright blue uniform, or at least part of it, a few days later.

nice to know that these CEOs have their priorities right, isn't it. obviously the priority to give staff a new uniform outweighs the cost to customers.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

still, no doubt his pension is secure, unlike the staff he is supposed to look after.

 

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