I think you'd have an extremely compelling case to take them to court if they withheld your deposit, like I said, they have no legitimate grounds to do so. Them calling it non-refundable isn't good enough, any more than can write into their T&Cs that they'll retain your card details and charge it sporadically for buying staff lunch.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/can-i-claim-back-a-non-refundable-deposit-aHwOj3S21AWP

But we digress!

Quote from: cmason on Today at 04:29:51 PM"I'm gonna put this somewhere safe" is an incantation of an ancient priesthood that has been passed down through the millennia that opens a portal to a random point in another timeline, through which all safely kept things travel, never to be seen again....

until a replacement is sourced and put somewhere safe, at which point the original appears.

Quote from: cmason on Today at 04:29:51 PM"I'm gonna put this somewhere safe" is an incantation of an ancient priesthood that has been passed down through the millennia that opens a portal to a random point in another timeline, through which all safely kept things travel, never to be seen again....

Of course the domestic high priestess or the novices (i.e. our daughters) that work under her do seem to possess some knowledge of the necessary incantations (spells?) that can bring some things back into this timeline... if I make the necessary sacrifices at the altar in order to persuade them to use their skills to help me out....

"I'm gonna put this somewhere safe" is an incantation of an ancient priesthood that has been passed down through the millennia that opens a portal to a random point in another timeline, through which all safely kept things travel, never to be seen again....

Quote from: Papyrus on Today at 04:06:26 PMThat's the reverse of my problem, Mick. I know I've bought stuff but it's vanished into thin air!

Cheers,

Chris

Could it be 'The Borrowers'?

That's the reverse of my problem, Mick. I know I've bought stuff but it's vanished into thin air!

Cheers,

Chris

Quote from: njee20 on Today at 01:14:12 PMThere is no legal ground that on which they can make your deposit non-refundable. That may stand where the items are custom made (eg a commissioned repaint), but you have a 100% legal right to change your mind up to 14 days after receipt of the goods, as you've not had the chance to inspect them prior to purchase.

Personally I never pre-order stuff. I'm not aware of anything selling out on pre-order. I make an exception for Revolution because of the price advantage. I think Sonic are in a tough position. Yes, posting online is easy, but if there's no news there's no news. Ok Revolution have a page you can view, but ultimately these are somewhere in between decorated samples and production. Sure we'll all find out when they land!

Hope they're more successful than the OO gauge Heljan ones, which seem to have been offered heavily discounted.

Under distance selling regulations (as I understand it) I can change my mind and return the item for a full refund, but that is only after it has been delivered, but what I cannot do (or is less clear) is the position as regards recovering a "non-refundable" deposit.

If delivery was by a set and specific date, then non-delivery would be a breach of contract that seems quite clear, but what Rails have said in their T&Cs for such models is that (and this is from the Sonic Newton Chambers car carriers by way of an example) Expected Delivery Q3 2024 (Subject to change at Manufacturer's Discretion). Now to what extent that would stand legal scrutiny I don't know, but the intent seems clear - it can take as long as it takes.

As I say, my personal view/choice as regards future pre-orders requiring a deposit may differ from the majority.

Regards

Roy

There is no legal ground that on which they can make your deposit non-refundable. That may stand where the items are custom made (eg a commissioned repaint), but you have a 100% legal right to change your mind up to 14 days after receipt of the goods, as you've not had the chance to inspect them prior to purchase.

Personally I never pre-order stuff. I'm not aware of anything selling out on pre-order. I make an exception for Revolution because of the price advantage. I think Sonic are in a tough position. Yes, posting online is easy, but if there's no news there's no news. Ok Revolution have a page you can view, but ultimately these are somewhere in between decorated samples and production. Sure we'll all find out when they land!

Hope they're more successful than the OO gauge Heljan ones, which seem to have been offered heavily discounted.

I have to admit that the whole principle of pre-ordering and paying a deposit (especially if "non-refundable") is one I am now personally reconsidering for future purchases.

This doesn't just apply in respect of Rails/Sonic, but any dealer/manufacturer/society and whether that be an up front payment in respect of a crowd funded model a "contribution" as was the case for the NGS cranes (that it turns out is explicitly not a deposit and your then discounted purchase in effect becomes a separate transaction if and when it happens) or a traditional deposit as a down payment.

Too often in my view timescales given for delivery seem to have been unreasonably optimistic leading to deposits being paid for items where there was no real prospect of delivery within the timescale stated (indeed some products said to be in production at that point pretty clearly weren't). If I know at the outset it is likely to be three years or more, than that's fine, I can make an informed choice, but that hasn't been the case.

The benefit of paying (we are told) is that it guarantees our model, but as things have played out, not only are there plenty of models to go around in most cases, but on some occasion the prices have subsequent to release even been discounted to less than the pre-order price which is pretty galling (as we are seeing with the J50!).

Just as bad is paying up front for a crowdfunded model in full, only to find the delivery date originally given pushed back and back until it is years late and delivery bears no resemblance to the original date at all (except possibly being the same decade!).

Of course some slippage is to be expected, that is a fact of life, but when the timeframe slips by a year or even more or continues to be pushed back then then it becomes much less so to me.

The scenario for me is different if I haven't paid a deposit/up front payment, having no financial "skin in the game", should I wish I can exit the transaction at any time without penalty. To take a personal example, the new run of Farish J39s was supposed to have arrived a year ago, I was told they weren't happy with the running so pulled production. Here we are, a year later and it is still "awaiting" on their website which, given no expected delivery date, means it is likely a further year away at least. No recent update and no response to my most recent enquiry, so, I may decide to cancel in due course and spend the money allocated on something else, I have the option - I am not "locked in".

I respect there are different views and am not asking anyone to agree with me, but nonetheless it is where I now am on this matter.

Roy