Hatton's Beyer-Garratt

[Bealman]

Hmmm. A$400.

Still, I do own a Blue Pullman...... 

[Capri_sam]

Hmmm. A$400.

Still, I do own a Blue Pullman...... 

To be fair, you do get two full locos for the price - albeit joined at the hip!

[njee20]

The majority people do not run layouts that are era or geographically specific

...

Since the initial announcement, Hattons appears to have just sat back and waited for things to happen - which they ain't. Marketing is the key here.

1) what's your source?
2) I keep saying it, but that works for OO gauge, so we can't be surprised that manufacturers are a bit apathetic on that front when it comes to N. Why deploy limited resources on a marginal project when you can announce a OO gauge one and it'll sell itself?

[Steven B]

The majority people do not run layouts that are era or geographically specific

1) what's your source?

My monthly visit to the Yorkshire Area Group meeting (next one this Saturday) shows exactly that. More than half run what they like - and very much enjoy doing so! Whilst there are some members who model prototypical trains (copying actual train formations with the exact loco in a photo), you're just as likely to see an EWS class 66s on a rake of milk tanks as a GWR tank engine on a rake of bogie oil tanks.

My next door neighbour recently asked me to sell his stock - locos were a LMS black Five, a GWR tank engine and a Lima class 31 in BR blue; a broad spread of geography and eras I think you'll agree!

Steven B.

[Thorpe Parva]

I'll be disappointed if it doesn't go ahead as it's just right for my era/location. As it hasn't been marketed very actively and there was no indication at the outset that it depended on pre-orders then the current situation is no surprise. I have one on order (might increase this to 2 if it helps) & if they do go ahead then I think it will sell well. Maybe a Class 28 would have been a better choice for their initial N Gauge RTR loco.

[exmouthcraig]

Isn't that what you need too do???

The 'official word' from Hattons is "we need more orders" so instead of you all saying

"I'll buy one if it gets it over the line"

Go and order it and them,  get it into production.

Imagine if it's a pup and all those desperate to own one all spent £200/£400/£1000 on orders to make sure they got it built only to get £50 on eBay 3months later.

[njee20]

The majority people do not run layouts that are era or geographically specific

1) what's your source?

My monthly visit to the Yorkshire Area Group meeting (next one this Saturday) shows exactly that. More than half run what they like - and very much enjoy doing so! Whilst there are some members who model prototypical trains (copying actual train formations with the exact loco in a photo), you're just as likely to see an EWS class 66s on a rake of milk tanks as a GWR tank engine on a rake of bogie oil tanks.

My next door neighbour recently asked me to sell his stock - locos were a LMS black Five, a GWR tank engine and a Lima class 31 in BR blue; a broad spread of geography and eras I think you'll agree!

More curiousity than actually disputing it FWIW, I'm not sure I have a gauge for it. From my perspective nearly everyone I engage with has a specific sphere of interest, but that's self-fulfilling. That said, it's a leap from "I exercise rule 1" to "I want to drop £200 on this random loco", and I suspect there's something that says as collections grow people tend to be a bit more focused. Or perhaps the exact opposite.

[Capri_sam]

On the unit cost, era and geography issues: Farish and Arnold have both managed to drum up sales for multiple runs of the Midland Pullman and Brighton Belle, both of which were somewhat limited in era and geography, and priced at between £300 and £400 for the set. There can't be that many people modelling the WCML and London to Brighton, so there's definitely a market for people buying something quirky and different looking for the sake of it... They just need to market the flipping thing!

I really do hope this one gets built - unfortunately as a rule 1 purchase I can't justify more than one, but I pre ordered on the day it was announced.

[Roy L S]

I think Hattons' whole approach to the Beyer Garratt has been very half-hearted, especially of late. To not promote it at all at the biggest model railway show in the calendar (Warley) if they are at all serious about it is just unforgiveable.

Could it be that their true objective is to tell us that they've "tried" an offer to the N market and it didn't work (which with their promotional approach - or rather lack thereof - will become a self-fulfilling prophecy).

Yes, agreed, a Co-Bo, ideally along with "Condor" wagons would have probably appealed to a wider audience if they are indeed serious..

Roy

[N_GaugeModeller]

I wonder if they did any market resurch before deciding their first n-gauge loco would be the Garrett?

With both Graham Farish and Dapol reducing the number of Steam Models and increasing the number of Diesels and Electric models, I wonder if buying tastes are changing so much these days the we will soon have a last day of steam in the model rail world as well.

Remember they probably have more customers the the ngaugeforum has members and they may well be dictating what they make, not us, I know the audacity of them

I have one on pre order but do think it was an ill thought out choice for their first n-gauge Model, but still thankful that it was not yet another class 66

NGM

[Newportnobby]

Could it be the Bachmann embargo on Farish stuff going through Hattons is biting more than they thought so the Garratt is maybe just being allowed to wither on the vine in the hope Bachmann then reverse their decision? Just thinking aloud.

[1936ace]

Could it be the Bachmann embargo on Farish stuff going through Hattons is biting more than they thought so the Garratt is maybe just being allowed to wither on the vine in the hope Bachmann then reverse their decision? Just thinking aloud.

A very interesting theory!  I hope they build the Garrett and they get back with Farish.
I signed up for one the day it came out and like my other recent purchases were all made to support the new products coming into the market even if they were the wrong era etc. I'm still hoping a class 17 will be built. I can dream!

[Dr Al]

I am not sure I believe the N Gauge market is too small for this - one only needs look at the growth of O gauge in the recent years - surely this is still a comparable and small market compared to N? It has many barriers to folk actually adopting it that N doesn't (space, cost even the 'budget' models).

However, it does seem to be the 'in' thing right now which manufacturers unlike N.

So it seems a semi-perfect storm here:
- N is not the trending thing, O is
- Hattons have no other N to show credibility of what they may produce
- poor initial mechanical choice of single motor
- relatively little advertising
- pre-order options must have been hit all over the industry at some level with the demise of DJM.

I don't think the prototype or era is the issue here so much - it's a good price for the model, and a completely logical choice given that they have the R+D from being involved with Heljan on their OO Garratt. We have to accept that for N we are likely to need to piggy back R+D for other gauges.

But in terms of Warley, I can see why they  wanted to dedicate their stand to O gauge class A3s, A4s and OO class 66s - all these products are at the point of hitting the shelves, so promoting them foremost to chalk up sales is just common business sense.

Cheers,
Alan

[Dr Al]

Could it be the Bachmann embargo on Farish stuff going through Hattons is biting more than they thought so the Garratt is maybe just being allowed to wither on the vine in the hope Bachmann then reverse their decision? Just thinking aloud.

The cited reason from Hattons for entering the market with OO 66s was that they couldn't get what they wanted from other manufacturers. So with that logic, the loss of Bachmann would actually be more of a drive for them to produce more themselves and cut out the vagueness of the supply chain.

Cheers,
Alan

[Roy L S]

I don't think

I wonder if they did any market resurch before deciding their first n-gauge loco would be the Garrett?

With both Graham Farish and Dapol reducing the number of Steam Models and increasing the number of Diesels and Electric models, I wonder if buying tastes are changing so much these days the we will soon have a last day of steam in the model rail world as well.

Remember they probably have more customers the the ngaugeforum has members and they may well be dictating what they make, not us, I know the audacity of them

I have one on pre order but do think it was an ill thought out choice for their first n-gauge Model, but still thankful that it was not yet another class 66

NGM

Hattons' logic was that their Heljan derived Garratt is their best selling model to date in 00 so by logical extension should appeal to N in a similar way.

I don't think the facts support the idea that manufacturers in N are deliberately moving away from steam in favour of D & E, truer to say that there has been a general slow down in brand new releases, but looking at Farish (ignoring minor re-tools or re-tread to enable DCC sound) we have had: -

Steam - Castle, C Class and 8F due in six months or so.

Diesel/Electric - Class 40, 158 and the more recently announced 319 - due???

Dapol have produced the 68 in N alongside the 00 one to leverage their exclusive right to make this loco to the maximum, the long awaited, paused and reinstated Class 50 and have the BoB/West Country still to come.

What there is in diesel terms is a lot more livery variants and sub-classes in the list so I would think it fairer to say the split of new tool is more like even-stevens personally.

All that said, the Garratt does begin to feel like it was more a grand statement from someone who doesn't know the N Market well, and now that they don't sell Farish aren't even truly a major player in it. Their market share in the scale is inevitably diminishing.

What could they sell to complement the Garratt?? Nothing Farish that's for sure!

Roy