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Author Topic: Exhibition Insurance  (Read 344 times)

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Offline port perran

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Exhibition Insurance
« on: August 04, 2022, 07:38:15 AM »
Our club insurance covers our club rooms and covers our own layouts and stock etc at our own exhibitions and when we are exhibiting at other exhibitions (including when the layouts are in transit).
However we take out additional insurance to cover other people’s layouts and stock when they are exhibiting at our exhibitions.
This is quite expensive because often exhibitors value their own layouts and stock quite highly (in some cases unrealistically highly).
Do other clubs/exhibition managers have experience of this and have any tips as to how to reduce the insurance fees?
Cheers
Martin
I’ll get round to fixing it drekkly me ‘ansome.

Offline PLD

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Re: Exhibition Insurance
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2022, 09:17:34 AM »
Speaking as a Club and Exhibition treasurer with a reluctance to spend unnecessarily... absolutely do NOT skimp on insurance cover!!
Most exhibitors infact under-value their layouts, so if you think they are excessive compared to your estimations, it probably means your valuations are way to low...
Valuing a model railway is something of a black art, but for insurance purposes, you should think how much would it need to replace like-for-like at current market values. You will probably be shocked when you work it out... If you do undervalue, in the event of a claim, any payout will be reduced proportionally.
Do look at a specialist insurer though, rather than the  big high Street/on line names. Magnet are the market leaders used by over half of Clubs and exhibitions and endorsed by the CMRA (member clubs get a discount, which in our case more than offsets the member fees!).
https://www.modelrailwayinsurance.co.uk/

Online martyn

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Re: Exhibition Insurance
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2022, 10:09:23 AM »
Thanks for the insight, @PLD from the organisers' view.

As an exhibitor, I had wondered on the best way of valuation;

What I paid for it (which might be quite a few years ago, and inflation has had a big effect);

What the RRP today is;

What a discount price today is;

Any other method.

And how do you value time spent detailing and scratch building? The layout I'm associated with has taken the builder roughly 22 years or so, the last 12 to 15 more or less full time; many of the details I've added to it have taken me most of the last four years' modelling time. How can you price that? Such a layout would be impossible to replace in the Insurer's 'like for like' category.

You can't; but I echo the view that at least a number of layouts are undervalued, even at replacement stock prices. We re-value roughly annually to keep up with the increase in RRP, if we can compare like for like.

And has been said on other threads, even if you get cash for the stock loss, is it actually available out there to purchase?

Thanks again.

Martyn

« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 10:14:06 AM by martyn »

Offline Bealman

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Re: Exhibition Insurance
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2022, 10:16:53 AM »
That's the difficult thing about model railways. As you say, how do you put a value on the blood sweat and tears that went into them?

My relatives and mates look at my layout, and say, this must be worth heaps....

I say, nowt.
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline PLD

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Re: Exhibition Insurance
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2022, 10:32:12 AM »
Valuing rolling stock is reasonably straight forward - if you have a Farish Black 5, you can reasonably take the last 12 months sales at a reputable second hand dealer or auction house (not eBay) as a benchmark rather than currently RRP.
Layouts are a different story - it may have cost £1000 for materials (track, timber, etc etc) when you built it ten years ago and you put in countless hours work which is near impossible to value. Those materials now might cost you £2000, but selling as a complete layout unless it is something exceptional you would be lucky to get £400-500. For insurance purposes the replacement material cost of £2000 is the figure I would use.
What ever the valuation method used, in the event of a claim Assessors are far more amenable if there is a clear documented valuation methodology rather than a random figure plucked out of the air...

Offline port perran

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Re: Exhibition Insurance
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2022, 01:20:34 PM »
Speaking as a Club and Exhibition treasurer with a reluctance to spend unnecessarily... absolutely do NOT skimp on insurance cover!!
Most exhibitors infact under-value their layouts, so if you think they are excessive compared to your estimations, it probably means your valuations are way to low...
Valuing a model railway is something of a black art, but for insurance purposes, you should think how much would it need to replace like-for-like at current market values. You will probably be shocked when you work it out... If you do undervalue, in the event of a claim, any payout will be reduced proportionally.
Do look at a specialist insurer though, rather than the  big high Street/on line names. Magnet are the market leaders used by over half of Clubs and exhibitions and endorsed by the CMRA (member clubs get a discount, which in our case more than offsets the member fees!).
https://www.modelrailwayinsurance.co.uk/
Many thanks for that which confirms my thoughts exactly.
We are already with Magnet for our club insurance.
I will double check the layout valuations from our exhibitors and proceed with them for exhibition cover.
Cheers
Martin
I’ll get round to fixing it drekkly me ‘ansome.

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Exhibition Insurance
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2022, 02:29:07 PM »
It is very important not to under-value.    When my main layout was out regularly in the 90s/00s/10s I'd declare it at £15k:  £5k for the layout (track & points, buildings, figures and vehicles, expensive catenary, all the electrical stuff, wood and other materials,... (nothing for labour)) and £10k was the Continental stock which soon adds up at an average £100 a loco (x40), £200 for multiple units (x20), and a whole bunch of coaches and wagons. 

Nick.   2021 celebrating the 25th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50050.0

Offline PGN

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Re: Exhibition Insurance
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2022, 05:50:23 PM »
Rolling stock is only easily valued if it is out-of-the-box proprietary stuff.

Most of mine is kit-built, bashed, or repainted. When I tried to add it as a specified item on my household insurance (because it exceeds the general limit for collections without a doubt) they insisted on a third-party valuation ... and I couldn't find anyone who would do that for what I have!

The real problem here is that the leading expert on N gauge pre-grouping stock and what's it's worth is probably ... me! But they won't accept my own valuation of my own stock despite my credentials ...
Pre-Grouping: the best of all possible worlds!
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I would rather build a model which is wrong but "looks right" than a model which is right but "looks wrong".

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Exhibition Insurance
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2022, 06:05:21 PM »
... When I tried to add [rolling stock] as a specified item on my household insurance (because it exceeds the general limit for collections without a doubt)

Household insurers generally don't treat model railways as a "collection", as it's not something which would be significantly diminished in value by the loss of one item. 
Nick.   2021 celebrating the 25th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50050.0

Offline PGN

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Re: Exhibition Insurance
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2022, 06:17:49 PM »
Really>

So is it generally the case that if Value of whole = sum of values of parts, that's not a "collection"?

I was not aware of that ... may need to talk to them further.
Pre-Grouping: the best of all possible worlds!
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I would rather build a model which is wrong but "looks right" than a model which is right but "looks wrong".

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Exhibition Insurance
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2022, 06:37:48 PM »
@PGN  it's been discussed on here before.  For example

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=42107.msg627404#msg627404   (and posts earlier/later in the same thread)

Opinions differ but the "not a collection" thing is how I've always understood it after checking with my household insurer.
Nick.   2021 celebrating the 25th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50050.0

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Exhibition Insurance
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2022, 06:43:10 PM »
Anyway, let's try and not divert this thread too far from the subject of Exhibition Insurance? 

There are several other threads discussing household insurance .v. specific collection insurance  for our model railways :)
Nick.   2021 celebrating the 25th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50050.0

Online Chris Morris

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Re: Exhibition Insurance
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2022, 06:53:16 PM »
Interesting discussion so far. All my stock is ready to run but every item is weathered and the locos are detailed. To value my stock for insurance I tend to take average value of new replacement. I am fairly broad brush on this  - for instance each Farish coach is rated at £40 at the moment but that will soon have to be increased to £45. A bigger worry than value is how on earth would I get hold of over 50 mk1 coaches? I think this is a reasonable approach to stock valuation. Yes it is significantly more than I paid but it wouldn’t cover the full cost of replacing everything new. For the layout itself I simply add up the cost of the components with no element of labour. Again I think this is reasonable as if a layout was a total loss I would build the replacement myself and enjoy it. I just count up the cost of the main items so I am understating the whole replacement cost but I would have enough to buy all the major items that were lost.

Something I haven’t done but we should all get around to doing is making a proper record of every item of stock complete with a photograph and any unique features. That would help with any insurance claim and also help if any items were stolen. Every item of my stock is marked in a way that I would know it was mine if it ever came up for sale from a thief. No, I’m not going to tell you what that marking is.
Working doesn't seem to be the perfect thing for me so I'll continue to play.
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Offline Southerngooner

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Re: Exhibition Insurance
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2022, 09:01:22 AM »
I agree with Chris’s way of calculating the value of your collection. I’ve kept a spreadsheet of mine since restarting in 2013, including price paid and list price at the time, plus where and when it was bought. I’ve got photos of all of my kit built locos but not much of my other stock, unless it’s been photographed on a layout. Mine too are all identified in a unique way. Even with the original list price the value is quite high, but would only go up if I added current list price. Might be something I’ll add and review each year, plus add a photo too.

Dave
Dave

 

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