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Author Topic: Suggestions please for repair or replacement chassis - GraFar 4 wheel coaches  (Read 1007 times)

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Offline mark ellis

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Suggestions please for suitable chassis, or how to repair axle boxes on GraFar 4 wheel coaches?

I've got some more 4 wheelers coming, and need to replace or repair the axle boxes, or replace the chassis. Ideal would be Dapol's 6 wheel chassis, but can't find any cheap chassis.







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Offline ntpntpntp

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The old 1970s "U-bend" coupling version I see :) The plastic's probably starting to get a little brittle.

These old coaches are usually quite cheap on second hand stalls at shows.
Nick.   2021 celebrating the 25th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50050.0

Offline Steven B

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It doesn't look like the wheels are about to drop out from the photos. What's wrong with them? Wheelsets can be changed without swapping the whole chassis.

Dapol's six wheel chassis from the Stove-R is available for £7.20 from the NGS Shop.

Another option might be a brake-van chassis. Peco's is probably the least expensive.

If the couplings are showing their age then they can be cut off and replaced with new ones from either Peco (NR-102) or Dapol (2A-000-014).


Steven B.

Offline mark ellis

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It doesn't look like the wheels are about to drop out from the photos. What's wrong with them? Wheelsets can be changed without swapping the whole chassis.

Dapol's six wheel chassis from the Stove-R is available for £7.20 from the NGS Shop.

Another option might be a brake-van chassis. Peco's is probably the least expensive.

If the couplings are showing their age then they can be cut off and replaced with new ones from either Peco (NR-102) or Dapol (2A-000-014).


Steven B.
Axle boxes are worn on a number of coaches, I've got around 30 4 wheel coaches. One has no couplings at all, two are Shredded Wheat. - and they just look good with 6 wheel chassis under them. I'm aware of the Dapol chassis on NGS
https://www.ngsjoin.com/stove-r---6-wheel-chassis-only-ngsr0346-872-p.asp

Someone on Facebook offered to sell me some NGS Dapol chassis, but it's cheaper on NGS as I need a few. Peco chassis is a kit isn't it?

Are the GraFar coaches 10 ft chassis? The bodies are 64mm long
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Offline mark ellis

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The old 1970s "U-bend" coupling version I see :) The plastic's probably starting to get a little brittle.

These old coaches are usually quite cheap on second hand stalls at shows.

What do you class as cheap? I'm amazed that one seller is still trying "Buy it now" for £45
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Offline ntpntpntp

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The old 1970s "U-bend" coupling version I see :) The plastic's probably starting to get a little brittle.

These old coaches are usually quite cheap on second hand stalls at shows.

What do you class as cheap? I'm amazed that one seller is still trying "Buy it now" for £45

£10 or less.  There are some rarer liveries which can command a bit more (eg. S&DJR blue?) but the standard liveries are still common.   Looking at current ebay there are a few unboxed singles and pairs hovering at less than £5 current bidding, though of course you have to factor the postage on top.

What about the Shredded Wheat coaches - are they identical chassis moulding around the axleboxes?  (I've not checked mine as they're buried somewhere in pile of stuff)  I remember paying £1 each for those, the trouble is they have simple link and pin couplings IIRC so would need coupling pockets to be fitted.

What's the actual problem - have the axleboxes broken away?
Nick.   2021 celebrating the 25th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50050.0

Offline zwilnik

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The NGS 6 wheel chassis are the best bet (simplest, cheapest and an exact match for the length of the bodies).

It's slightly longer than the Peco 15ft chassis. One alternate option if you can't get the NGS chassis or want to stay with 4 wheels is to take a 15ft chassis and slice it down the middle, sticking a bit of plasticard in the middle to extend it to the right length.

Offline mark ellis

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£10 or less.  There are some rarer liveries which can command a bit more (eg. S&DJR blue?) but the standard liveries are still common.   Looking at current ebay there are a few unboxed singles and pairs hovering at less than £5 current bidding, though of course you have to factor the postage on top.

What about the Shredded Wheat coaches - are they identical chassis moulding around the axleboxes?  (I've not checked mine as they're buried somewhere in pile of stuff)  I remember paying £1 each for those, the trouble is they have simple link and pin couplings IIRC so would need coupling pockets to be fitted.

What's the actual problem - have the axleboxes broken away?

Axle boxes are worn, as in axles move, and move up as in chassis lower

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Offline mark ellis

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The NGS 6 wheel chassis are the best bet (simplest, cheapest and an exact match for the length of the bodies).

It's slightly longer than the Peco 15ft chassis. One alternate option if you can't get the NGS chassis or want to stay with 4 wheels is to take a 15ft chassis and slice it down the middle, sticking a bit of plasticard in the middle to extend it to the right length.

I thought the chassis was 10ft. They're 64 mm long bodies. I guess the Peco NR-121 B guards van chassis with the running rail is the correct 4 wheel chassis to use. Just a shame that Peco do such awful advertising images, it's a drawing rather than clear photos from different angles. Their website gets to me, seems their kits aren't the only thing that still stuck in the last millennium.



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Offline mark ellis

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£10 or less.  There are some rarer liveries which can command a bit more (eg. S&DJR blue?) but the standard liveries are still common.   Looking at current ebay there are a few unboxed singles and pairs hovering at less than £5 current bidding, though of course you have to factor the postage on top.

Go back in 6 days and have another look at those coaches currently listed at £2 - £3.



« Last Edit: July 18, 2022, 08:36:23 PM by mark ellis »
Union Mills appreciation group on Facebook, and unnamed Union Mills website
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Offline ntpntpntp

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@mark ellis  yeah looking at recent completed listing some boxed ones go high, some sold by best offer (I wonder how much?) some re-list as they're priced too high, but I still see some singles and pairs sold for £10-£13-ish each including postage.  eg. in May 3x original Grafar red boxed in great condition sold for £24.99 +£5 p&p.

As I say, if you manage to get to shows or swapmeets they can be found for £10 ish - always make an offer :) 

Of course that may still be more than you want to pay if you only want the chassis so look out for the spare/repair and job-lot bundles :)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2022, 08:38:56 PM by ntpntpntp »
Nick.   2021 celebrating the 25th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50050.0

Offline zwilnik

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The NGS 6 wheel chassis are the best bet (simplest, cheapest and an exact match for the length of the bodies).

It's slightly longer than the Peco 15ft chassis. One alternate option if you can't get the NGS chassis or want to stay with 4 wheels is to take a 15ft chassis and slice it down the middle, sticking a bit of plasticard in the middle to extend it to the right length.

I thought the chassis was 10ft. They're 64 mm long bodies. I guess the Peco NR-121 B guards van chassis with the running rail is the correct 4 wheel chassis to use. Just a shame that Peco do such awful advertising images, it's a drawing rather than clear photos from different angles. Their website gets to me, seems their kits aren't the only thing that still stuck in the last millennium.





Peco make 10ft and 15ft wheelbase chassis. The Farish 4 wheel coach is a bit longer and is a 20ft wheelbase chassis (the body is 32ft scale length). The NGS Dapol 6 wheel chassis rather handily matches this size so is a great fit and makes the coaches 6 wheelers, which were more common for the later periods most of the actual locos are available for.

Both the Peco guards van chassis are too short, but can be chopped down the middle and extended. However it's easier to use their normal wagon chassis (same lengths) for a cut and shut job and add your own running boards from plasticard strip as otherwise you have to match the running boards you've chopped up.


Offline thebrighton

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For 6 wheelers I have used the Peco 15ft brake van chassis or rather 2. Cut a section from the middle of one and add one wheelset from the other. 3 chassis make 2 6 wheelers.

Offline Steven B

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Axle boxes are worn, as in axles move, and move up as in chassis lower

Have you tried fitting brass top-hat bearings? £4 for twenty from N Brass Loco:
https://www.nbrasslocos.co.uk/fitall.html#BEARING
(part number 23818).

Peco also sell them (NR-91, RRP = £5.30).

Drill out the existing axle bearing holes to 2mm (usually, double check with your bearings). Glue the replacements in the hole making sure they're as square to the chassis as you can get. It's also possible to melt them in place by pushing them into the plastic using a clean hot soldering iron. I've never been brave enough to try the soldering iron method.

As others have mentioned, it's also possible to extend the Peco chassis - slice in the middle and fill in the missing solebar/chassis with plasticard. It's possible to get C channel strips that are about the right dimension.

Steven B.

Offline chrism

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Have you tried fitting brass top-hat bearings? £4 for twenty from N Brass Loco:
https://www.nbrasslocos.co.uk/fitall.html#BEARING
(part number 23818).

Peco also sell them (NR-91, RRP = £5.30).

Drill out the existing axle bearing holes to 2mm (usually, double check with your bearings).

I'm using the Peco ones in 3D printed coach chassis' - the "hat" part is 1mm diameter but I'm getting an easier fit using 1.2mm with less risk of breaking the axlebox print, should also leave more room for the glue.
I'm leaving the "brim" part flush with the axlebox inner face to keep the bearing cups nice and square to the face but if I wanted to recess that as well a very quick waving of the calipers implies that it's somewhere around 1.6-1.7mm diameter.
However, I have the advantage that I'm designing/printing the chassis' myself so I can set the bearings' spacing measurement as I choose, rather than having to work with an existing chassis.


 

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