A British domestic train from Kato? 800 series available from May 2021

[Snowwolflair]

Now £178 at Rails too ... "-15%".

Competition, eh? 

Got my two at £169.50 and I have a screen shot of the order confirming the price 

From Rails site:

Previously advertised incorrectly at £169.50. Correct price is £178.00 which still represents a great discount off the RRP of £209.95. Sorry for the error

Does this mean they will be charging us £178?

British trading standards - an offer for sale is an offer for sale - even if the price is subsequently discovered to be wrong is guaranteed especially if they have processed the sale.  They must honour sales made before they spotted their mistake.

[PaulCheffus]

Now £178 at Rails too ... "-15%".

Competition, eh? 

Got my two at £169.50 and I have a screen shot of the order confirming the price 

From Rails site:

Previously advertised incorrectly at £169.50. Correct price is £178.00 which still represents a great discount off the RRP of £209.95. Sorry for the error

Does this mean they will be charging us £178?

British trading standards - an offer for sale is an offer for sale - even if the price is subsequently discovered to be wrong is guaranteed especially if they have processed the sale.  They must honour sales made before they spotted their mistake.

Hi

Incorrect, they don't have to sell you anything. All prices are an invitation to treat and are not binding until money is handed over and accepted.

Cheers

Paul

[Snowwolflair]

Yes but they have processed a cash reservation with PayPal which is deemed to be a transaction.  This was challenged in a court case last year and is now case law.

[PaulCheffus]

Yes but they have processed a cash reservation with PayPal which is deemed to be a transaction.  This was challenged in a court case last year and is now case law.

Hi

Until that charge clears your credit card it hasn't actually been paid for. It depends on how it gets processed. I paid via PayPal for some Lego direct from Lego. It wasn't in stock at the time and by the time it did come into stock about a week later the PayPal authorisation had expired. I had to phone them and pay directly.

Time will tell and you will have got a bargain if it does go through at that price.

Cheers

Paul

[jpendle]

Where's my TPE one 

I know it's an 802, not an 800.

John P

[Snowwolflair]

Yes but they have processed a cash reservation with PayPal which is deemed to be a transaction.  This was challenged in a court case last year and is now case law.

Hi

Until that charge clears your credit card it hasn't actually been paid for. It depends on how it gets processed. I paid via PayPal for some Lego direct from Lego. It wasn't in stock at the time and by the time it did come into stock about a week later the PayPal authorisation had expired. I had to phone them and pay directly.

Time will tell and you will have got a bargain if it does go through at that price.

Cheers

Paul

That's why I have a screen print showing the order has been processed and accepted at that price.  Something I always do for high value items. 

[fredd]

Will there be a 9-car version or the ability to buy additional coaches?

[red_death]

As Paul says, it is not correct that a retailer has to honour a price given in error before a transaction is complete.  If no money has changed hands then no invoice/tax point has been created so it is down to the retailer to decide if they will/can honour it (they may not be allowed to if Kato or their distributor have a similar discount policy to Bachmann or Hornby ie max discount for XX days).

Mr Kato said to us at TINGS last year that they hoped to offer it DCC ready and that they were looking at the options for additional coaches and other versions of 80x.  I don't know what the conclusions were so it might be that they've decided to just stick with these two versions for launch with the possibility of others to follow.

Cheers Mike

[Buffin]

Keith's latest email quotes £168. Let's see if that sticks

Even £178 is a good price for a 5 car train pack.

If a price is shown above it is my intended price in normal market conditions. I may need to alter this, due to exchange rates, at any time before this item is invoiced to you. However my prices will always be 20% below importers recommended price for sets, a bit less for lower priced items.

[Snowwolflair]

As Paul says, it is not correct that a retailer has to honour a price given in error before a transaction is complete.  If no money has changed hands then no invoice/tax point has been created so it is down to the retailer to decide if they will/can honour it (they may not be allowed to if Kato or their distributor have a similar discount policy to Bachmann or Hornby ie max discount for XX days).

Mr Kato said to us at TINGS last year that they hoped to offer it DCC ready and that they were looking at the options for additional coaches and other versions of 80x.  I don't know what the conclusions were so it might be that they've decided to just stick with these two versions for launch with the possibility of others to follow.

Cheers Mike

Mike you should brush up on your contract law (offer made and offer accepted) and resent case law in support of this very matter where a pre-payment validation has been carried out.   The beginning of the financial transaction, requiring a verification from PayPal, is the point when the contractual relationship is sealed, even if no cash changes hands.

[Ben A]

The beginning of the financial transaction, requiring a verification from PayPal, is the point when the contractual relationship is sealed, even if no cash changes hands.

Hi all,

I don't want to go down a rabbit hole on this but the reality is if they've made a mistake then they can either honour the original price or just cancel the transaction and refund whatever you've paid, in the knowledge that they are better off selling to you (or someone else) at the correct price than taking a hit.

I hope whoever is reponsible for what is obviously an error doesn't get into any trouble - these models are incredibly cheap.  In fact, if you take into account VAT, retailer margin and shipping costs my only conclusion is that instead of the usual 1000-1500 units Revolution manages to shift, Kato must be expecting to shift 10,000+ units.   

Having said that, we know there is a large market in Japan for high speed "Shinkansen" type trains, and I gather there is a cohort of enthusiasts there who are, in particular, Hitachi fans and are likely to order these sets.

I have a suspicion that the reality is - ironically - that far more Class 800s will be sold in Japan than are ever sold here!  Mr Kato told me they sold far more Eurostars in Japan than they ever sold in the UK.

cheers

Ben A.

[red_death]

Mike you should brush up on your contract law (offer made and offer accepted) and resent case law in support of this very matter where a pre-payment validation has been carried out.   The beginning of the financial transaction, requiring a verification from PayPal, is the point when the contractual relationship is sealed, even if no cash changes hands.

What is the source please? Happy to be proven wrong.

My understanding is that nothing is binding until money changes hands (that has always been one of the cornerstones of contract law). The fact that a card check is done by Paypal doesn't change that (and if anything it may well muddy the waters as Paypal are an intermediary). Even pre-authorisation is just that ie allowing a merchant to use your card details for a an agreed amount (I'd expect a merchant to have to get a new agreement for a different (higher) price) - it isn't an actual transaction.

I'd still argue that it is a moot point anyway because the retailer can refuse to proceed with the transaction (particularly if it contravenes their supply agreement - would you really jeopardise your supply arrangement by breaking the discounting rules of £8.50?). If what you say is true then no retailer could afford to have any sort of pre-ordering system because for reasons unconnected to price (eg if they are short supplied) they would be in breach of contract and how could they ever cancel an order?

[Snowwolflair]

The beginning of the financial transaction, requiring a verification from PayPal, is the point when the contractual relationship is sealed, even if no cash changes hands.

Hi all,

I don't want to go down a rabbit hole on this but the reality is if they've made a mistake then they can either honour the original price or just cancel the transaction and refund whatever you've paid, in the knowledge that they are better off selling to you (or someone else) at the correct price than taking a hit.

I hope whoever is reponsible for what is obviously an error doesn't get into any trouble - these models are incredibly cheap.  In fact, if you take into account VAT, retailer margin and shipping costs my only conclusion is that instead of the usual 1000-1500 units Revolution manages to shift, Kato must be expecting to shift 10,000+ units.   

Having said that, we know there is a large market in Japan for high speed "Shinkansen" type trains, and I gather there is a cohort of enthusiasts there who are, in particular, Hitachi fans and are likely to order these sets.

I have a suspicion that the reality is - ironically - that far more Class 800s will be sold in Japan than are ever sold here!  Mr Kato told me they sold far more Eurostars in Japan than they ever sold in the UK.

cheers

Ben A.

So putting aside where you are both legally wrong, what you are also suggesting is that Rails of Sheffield will dishonour their "Price Promise" shown on the products webpage and which I have a screen capture of.

I'm just glad I screenshot all my purchases from other manufacturers.

[dannyboy]

Flippin' 'eck - is there a lawyer in the house?

[Sven]

A big discussion about only 9 Pounds. Take a step back and see how silly this is.