Just an information page really.
I got fed up with seeing second hand Union Mills locos being sold for twice the price of new ones directly from Colin. I was also aware that Colin is old school, and doesn't use internet advertising. So I created a Union Mills N Gauge locomotive appreciation group on Facebook. The initial idea was to have an internet presence of all the locos that Colin has made over the years.
I've now created an unofficial signposting website on the internet, to help raise awareness of Colin's great models - which directs people to the unofficial Facebook group. The website is also a better way to display text files, such as all the loco sheets compared to Facebook
https://sites.google.com/view/union-mills-model-railway (https://sites.google.com/view/union-mills-model-railway)
The unofficial Facebook appreciation group is at https://www.facebook.com/groups/Union.Mills.N.Gauge.Locomotive.Appreciation.Group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/Union.Mills.N.Gauge.Locomotive.Appreciation.Group)
This web page and the Facebook group are not connected in any way to Union Mills N gauge models.
If you wish to buy any Union Mills Models then contact Colin at colin.h@manx.net or ring him on 01624 852 896 to check availability of these wonderful locomotives. Unions Mills Models Ltd are at Unit 5, Union Mills Trading Estate, Union Mills, Isle of Man IM4 4AB.
The dates of Colin's loco releases are here
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/124/1760-200722083534.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=124280)
A PDF of this is attached at the bottom of the post.
Below are the lists of all loco numbers used, along with the colours and loco numbers used. If you have something different then do let me know
L.M.S. and S.& D.J.R.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/124/1760-230722133507.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=124360)
L.N.E.R.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/124/1760-240722010446.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=124378)
S.R. and G.W.R
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/124/1760-230722133652.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=124362)
Colin's locos might be too basic for some, but are reliable and long lasting.
When Colin was asked for the Release dates, Colin advised this of his first locos -
Quote
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/124/1760-240722123018.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=124393)
An early D20, of the chassis used between 1996 and 2003
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/124/1760-240722121735.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=124389)
A later D20, of the chassis used from 2007 onwards
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/124/1760-240722121823.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=124390)
There are some websites that offer detailing accessories suitable for Union Mills Models. They include;
Springside Models offer detailing accessories for 2 mm.
https://www.springsidemodels.com/2mm-detailing-accessories (https://www.springsidemodels.com/2mm-detailing-accessories)
N Brass locos offer detailing accessories in 2 mm.
https://www.nbrasslocos.co.uk/nhome.html (https://www.nbrasslocos.co.uk/nhome.html)
Fox Transfers, offer waterslide transfers, etched nameplates, and more.
https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/ (https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/)
Wickness Models are recommended by Colin as a company to convert your DC locos to DCC
https://wicknessmodels.co.uk/services/u (https://wicknessmodels.co.uk/services/u) ... nversions/
If you would like to share any photographs of Union Mills locos to display on the Facebook page or the website, then please make it clear which model the photo is of. On Facebook, you can either add them directly into the relevant loco's album, or I can drop them into the photo album for you. Please ensure that you are only uploading your own photos, and that they clearly show the loco rather than just a train on a layout.
If you detail or modify any loco, then we would love to see photos and video of that process.
Photo albums are now stored in the Media section, at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2121268031438640/media/albums (https://www.facebook.com/groups/2121268031438640/media/albums)
The Facebook group is at https://www.facebook.com/groups/Union.Mills.N.Gauge.Locomotive.Appreciation.Group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/Union.Mills.N.Gauge.Locomotive.Appreciation.Group)
Thank you
Hi Mark
Don't know if you are aware of the following video produced for last years NGF Virtual Show, @port perran (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=230) with contributions from various forum members.
Best Wishes
Mike H
Quote from: Nbodger on July 20, 2022, 08:24:16 AM
Hi Mark
Don't know if you are aware of the following video produced for last years NGF Virtual Show, @port perran (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=230) with contributions from various forum members.
Best Wishes
Mike H
Many thanks, Mike
Coincidentally shared it on the Facebook group at the start of the month.
Original post has been edited to show the lists of all Union Mills locos made, their release dates, colours and loco numbers
I have posted pictures, Mark, of the Dean Goods 2516 which Colin kindly made for me in green livery with GREAT WESTERN on the tender.
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=57244.msg767060#msg767060 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=57244.msg767060#msg767060)
Great idea Mark!
In your detailing section, Alan Cummings work would be really useful....perhaps ask him for permission to use photos of his work.
Quote from: Doc Pye on July 23, 2022, 04:12:26 PM
Great idea Mark!
In your detailing section, Alan Cummings work would be really useful....perhaps ask him for permission to use photos of his work.
I think the ones already shown give an excellent example of detailing. The offer is made for anyone to share their photos if they so wish
@mark ellis (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1760) hi, have you seen the price list that UnionMills i.e. Colin has sent out recently? It says quite clearly at the bottom:-
" After 47 years in the model railway business I am retiring.
I would like to thank all my many customers for their support over 29 years of Union Mills Models. The
locomotives listed here are my remaining stock, -
Dated 12/12/22
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/128/8822-030123205012.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=128966)
A big loss to British N Gauge. I doubt there will ever be models like this again unless Colin is selling his business. Personally, I would like to wish Colin a long and healthy retirement.
Thank you Colin.
Kind regards
Paddy
I see in the above post tht Colin is retiring, does anybody know if the range or part thereof is being taken over by anybody?
It looks like the end to me, Mike. :(
I, too, wish Colin a long and happy retirement
Wondr if there's anybody on the forum or in the society who might volunteer or be persuaded to take it over.
Quote from: Greygreaser on January 03, 2023, 08:50:55 PM
@mark ellis (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1760) hi, have you seen the price list that UnionMills i.e. Colin has sent out recently? It says quite clearly at the bottom:-
" After 47 years in the model railway business I am retiring.
I would like to thank all my many customers for their support over 29 years of Union Mills Models. The
locomotives listed here are my remaining stock, -
Dated 12/12/22
Greygreaser, many thanks for the heads up.
I haven't seen any price list for a while. I did wonder in 2018 if he was packing up, but he suddenly made a new batch of stock. Was hoping he was going to make a Dean single before packing up.
I'll let me Facebook group know
I ordered a loco 2.00 pm the Thursday(22nd) before Christmas and received it the next day.
I spoke to Colin and found it to be very pleasant person and ask he was selling his business.
He replied "[No, it can't be handed down.It's a bit like a violin repair business][/i]"
Pity really and great shame and an even bigger loss!
Problem is if a business and skill sets aren't passed on they are lost!
However it's Colin's business and it is up to him to do what he wants with it.
I wish him well in his retirement.
It does make me think may be someone else could make similar style models in the UK for around the same cost and quality?
Put it another way it might had been a small scale cottage industry but I don't think it was a loss making one.
Bloody shame. Union Mills was an N Gauge institution, really.
A sad loss to the hobby.
I have felt that with the lack of any newly tooled models and a focus on running fresh batches of existing ones the writing has been on the wall for a while now.
It was the purchase of my first UM J39 (with the second "low noise" design of tender-drive) that reignited my interest in British N in the mid-1990s. A loco I had always wanted in N, for the time the tidy looks and neat finish coupled to the smooth running and powerful mechanism was a step change from the Farish locos of the day.
The locos that followed were ones no mainstream manufacturer was ever likely to touch (B12, J26, D20 etc) and that cemented his place in British N.
I am grateful that UM models came along, very likely had they not, I would no longer be modelling in N today.
Very sad that the business cannot be handed on, but I suspect that the success of it has been down to Colin Heard's background, unique range of skillsets and contacts. It is hard to see anyone following him by starting anything similar from scratch either :(.
Roy
What sad news at the start of the New Year ,Colins Union Mills Locos have been some of the strongest locos made yes they lack detail but are so reliable and will pull any amount of stock you require .But allso the brilliant service weve had from Colin over the years has been second to none ,not many small one man bands could take an order in the afternoon and deliver the next morning .
The locos I have will still be going long after I have departed this earth .and will give someone lots of pleasure.
I wish Colin a happy retirement .
Bob Tidbury
I guess it had to happen sometime. His locos provided a sturdy and reliable base to which finer detail could be added.
I hope he enjoys a long and happy retirement.
Yes it's sad that Union Mills is closing, so pleased I have one of his loco's. He is such a nice guy to deal with and very helpful and a Legend in British N -Gauge. He will be missed I wish him a Happy Retirement. Chris.
Bad news for the Isle of Man Post Office philatelic department, and modellers who are also stamp collectors :(
I wish Colin a long and happy retirement with thanks for all he has given us.
My beautiful City of Truro, fettled a while back by the talented Ozymandias and subsequently admired by Colin, will become even more valued - by me!
Dave G
I've only just discovered this thread, thanks to Mick diverting me here from the 'Next UM loco will be...' thread. As I said there, what a shame! UM locos weren't everyone's cup of tea, but they were solidly built models of prototypes that other manufacturers didn't touch. Just hope that the likes of Sonic can fill the gap.
Cheers,
Chris
Sad news indeed. How pleased I am that I have more than a dozen of Colin's excellent locos. If anyone knows Colin and is in contact with him in the future please pass on my best wishes and thanks for these fantastic locos.
I would have to disagree that it couldn't be passed on.
I'm sure there is someone out there with the necessary technical skills, sufficient business acumen, and the ability to paint the locos (I wonder if he uses reusable painting masks, it looks like he might).
I have the technical skills (not sure about the business side), but not the time or situation.
Maybe the N Gauge society could take on making and sourcing the parts for others to assemble? As a kind of kit. It will also encourage people to offer a service of finishing them for others (for a fee).
I do hope they continue to be available in some form.
Quote from: harper on January 03, 2023, 10:48:45 PM
I ordered a loco 2.00 pm the Thursday(22nd) before Christmas and received it the next day.
I spoke to Colin and found it to be very pleasant person and ask he was selling his business.
He replied "[No, it can't be handed down.It's a bit like a violin repair business][/i]"
Pity really and great shame and an even bigger loss!
Problem is if a business and skill sets aren't passed on they are lost!
However it's Colin's business and it is up to him to do what he wants with it.
I wish him well in his retirement.
It does make me think may be someone else could make similar style models in the UK for around the same cost and quality?
Put it another way it might had been a small scale cottage industry but I don't think it was a loss making one.
Quote from: mark ellis on July 23, 2022, 01:54:15 PM
Original post has been edited to show the lists of all Union Mills locos made, their release dates, colours and loco numbers
Just eyeballing the list, my Collett 2251, no 2253, is actually in BR Black, early crest. I do know that BR green ones were also produced, but I do not know which ones, off the top of my head.
Bob
What a shame. I picked up a Dean Goods from Colin, really nice bloke to talk to, and a great little locomotive.
I dont own one, mores the pity but it seems Colin has provided a fair few modelers with some fantastic locos.
Also he has earned his retirement and if the business retires with him so be it.
Enjoy your next phase in life Colin and thanks for your N gauge legacy.
Andy
I am sorry to hear that Colin is retiring, but wish him a long and happy retirement - Union Mills locos will remain for me the rolls royce of quality and haulage!
All the best,
Alex
I had a conversation over Xmas with my son (0 gauge GWR) and he said 'Why haven't you got some 'Eastern' steam locos on your layout?" - Readum Junkshun is in Norfolk :hmmm:
Well there's rarity and scarcity, and rocking horse poo comes parallel with finding LNER/BR locos other than the 'namers' - except the Union Mills range :claphappy: I found on www.railuk.info (http://www.railuk.info) that J15s were the most populous in the Norfolk sheds and no-one seems to want to tackle it - it would be quite delicate in N scale I think.
Finding the list from UM was a challenge to the pocket but I've settled on 2. A J25 as its nearest in 'looks' to the J15, although they all worked in the North East, but it will be a replacement for something BR in the fleet as will my second choice.
Then i found that Norfolk was sprinkled with Clauds :bounce: so a D16 65614 is on its way too. It was allocated to Kings Lynn shed and never moved away, possibly because it became 1 of 2 'Royal' engines used to pull Royal trains between london and Hunstanton, stopping at Wolverton of course. It was always washed and polished ready for special duties so will need some careful detailing. - sources and ideas welcome.
I'm thinking that Colin knew of its 'standing' in royal circles and so chose that number!
Excitement is growing by the day as i await the package
@Greygreaser (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8822)
I've posted similarly before, but Norfolk could include
B12
B1
B17
D16/3
J39
Britannia
J50-Norwich had three for shunting at Thorpe.
4MT Mogul
And probably others, all the above are RTR from Union Mills, Farish, Dapol, and J50 soon from Sonic.
Thebrighton has a J15 in his thread on GER stock, made indeed by converting a J25, but using the UM 2F tender drive, as it is smaller than the J25: the J15s only had small tenders.
It'd give you quite a steam stable, though if you are a stickler for period, the Claud and B17s had gone around 1960, with B12 61572 hanging on at Norwich before preservation.
Martyn
Later;
Austerity 280
Via M+GN; 4F
At least one 8F and 'Crab' have been photographed at Norwich........
Sad news indeed. I too wish Colin a long and happy retirement. I've spoken with him a couple of times since buying my first loco (J39) last year. This purchase was prompted by failures of Sonic, Dapol and Farish locos (6 in all) each being returned; the last Farish sent is still running but for a 8F won't pull much compared to UM or my old Minitrix 9F. I will be keeping an eye on the second hand market hoping to get a GWR livery Collett sometime.
Happy retirement Colin, and thank you for all you have done for the N Gauge modeller.
Many thanks Colin for the excellent and reasonably priced range of locomotives produced over the years. Most of these are of prototypes which would not have been considered by the mainstream manufacturers.
Enjoy a long and happy retirement.
Martin, a very satisfied customer
I've not got any UM locos, was thinking of buying a few (ex LMS types), but not for the next 5 or 6 months - typical timing!
Ah well, I hope he enjoys his retirement.
I wish Colin a long and happy retirement, always sad to see a manufacturer leave the market, however Colin does leave a positive legacy in our N gauge world. Personally I have four of his models and as others have already said, all my examples are solid performers.
Does anyone know what Colin's final close-down date is?
I still have a couple of locomotives which need to go off to him for re-motoring ...
I spoke to him earlier in the week, after a spare tender drive or two and any other spares that might come in handy; he says it'll probably take a couple of months before he finds all the odd bits and pieces in cupboards or boxes, currently he has no tender drives that he knows the whereabouts of - if any.
I phoned Colin today to see what stock he had left. He still has the G2, the J25/26 and the D16 in LNER green. I too would have liked a couple of tender drives but he said he had none left. So I bought a D16 and wished him a very happy retirement. I suspect there is no definite closing date - it will be when he has sold his last loco. End of an era and all that.
Cheers
Chris
I wonder how long Nick Tilston of N Brass will continue to trade. I know nothing of his underlying health or his financial situation, but he is clearly not a young man and has already stopped taking his trade stand to general exhibitions. He now confines himself to 2mm Association events and online/postal trading.
His products are a godsend to kit builders, scratch builders and, of course, those who detail Union Mills models.
Ordered yesterday & arrived today. I already have a Union Mills G2 plus three other of Colin's ex-LMS locos but it was too good an opportunity to miss as I don't suppose we will see an R-T-R G2 in N Gauge again in the near future. Excellent runner straight out of the box.
David
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/128/882-060123115428.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=128997)
If all goes to plan there's a G2 coming to me via Wickness
Quote from: Ali Smith on January 06, 2023, 11:45:32 AM
I wonder how long Nick Tilston of N Brass will continue to trade. I know nothing of his underlying health or his financial situation, but he is clearly not a young man and has already stopped taking his trade stand to general exhibitions. He now confines himself to 2mm Association events and online/postal trading.
His products are a godsend to kit builders, scratch builders and, of course, those who detail Union Mills models.
Yes this is an issue with the "cottage industry" nature of some key suppliers to our hobby. Gone as far as I can see, is ABS Beaver, GEM, Graham Hughes, I think, who did a kit of the Glen. Is Chivers still around? I have a few of his OTA kits. Dare I ponder how secure is the future of PD Marsh and Langley. I continue to use both for the bits element of a layout, and have certainly used their loco kits in the past - rendered tricky by the growing lack of usable #Poole chassis. There are others
Chivers still going strong...
https://www.chiversfinelines.co.uk/ (https://www.chiversfinelines.co.uk/)
I think that the son took over the business some time ago. I bought some kits a few months ago.
I also buy bits from PD Marsh & I believe that Hattons now stock some of their products.
Quote from: Thorpe Parva on January 06, 2023, 11:55:14 AM
Ordered yesterday & arrived today.
I'm astonished. As well as perplexed. :worried:
I gave up years ago trying to buy new as it simply seemed impossible. Trying again this week given it's the last chance, and I've phoned him no less than ELEVEN times, including twice immediately after a previous attempt when I got the engaged tone, and not once have I managed to get him to pick up! It's literally.....hopeless! :doh:
Sorry, while it's a regret that UM are ceasing, I will be in the comical position of having literally never bought from him, despite being a prolific detailer of the models and owning a fair number.
Back to the secondhands I guess..... :confused1:
Cheers,
Alan
Any ideas as to which motor Colin uses, is it one available elsewhere, similarly with wheels?
Anybody know of somewhere that does white metal casting (or could learn it quick) that could possibly acquire Colin's moulds etc?
Quote from: Ali Smith on January 06, 2023, 11:45:32 AM
I wonder how long Nick Tilston of N Brass will continue to trade. I know nothing of his underlying health or his financial situation, but he is clearly not a young man and has already stopped taking his trade stand to general exhibitions. He now confines himself to 2mm Association events and online/postal trading.
His products are a godsend to kit builders, scratch builders and, of course, those who detail Union Mills models.
I saw him a few days ago. He is ok and gets out and about but not as energetic as he was.
Quote from: Dorsetmike on January 06, 2023, 04:34:45 PM
Any ideas as to which motor Colin uses, is it one available elsewhere, similarly with wheels?
Anybody know of somewhere that does white metal casting (or could learn it quick) that could possibly acquire Colin's moulds etc?
Motors were until more recently a standard 10-15 can motor size - China 3 pole type jobs, which can be got direct from China pretty easily. More recent is a smaller 8x15 (or 8x12 possibly) motor of a similar style.
Keeping these running won't be a problem - there's also Tramfabriek's coreless motors, which can definitely fit (they have a 1015 replacement, for example).
Wheels etc are likely custom bought in.
Cheers,
Alan
If anyone is interested Footplate models of Kidderminster have a secondhand Dukedog for sale - £93. I spotted it in a cabinet today. I told the owner it was now a collectors item so he might put the price up!
Quote from: Chris Morris on January 06, 2023, 04:36:34 PM
Quote from: Ali Smith on January 06, 2023, 11:45:32 AM
I wonder how long Nick Tilston of N Brass will continue to trade. I know nothing of his underlying health or his financial situation, but he is clearly not a young man and has already stopped taking his trade stand to general exhibitions. He now confines himself to 2mm Association events and online/postal trading.
His products are a godsend to kit builders, scratch builders and, of course, those who detail Union Mills models.
I saw him a few days ago. He is ok and gets out and about but not as energetic as he was.
Nick does seem to increasingly struggle to get the turned parts in - wheels currently, but also at times some of the buffers and (lovely) turned whistles - some of these I believe are actually sourced from Markits (formerly Romford).
Not saying that'll make him stop - but it does make it increasingly difficult, especially if you need a part to match something you bought previously.
Cheers,
Alan
Memory might be playing tricks with me, however fairly sure there was an article on Union Mills and its manufacturing process a few years back.
Quote from: Rowlie on January 06, 2023, 04:54:36 PM
Memory might be playing tricks with me, however fairly sure there was an article on Union Mills and its manufacturing process a few years back.
In N Gauge NOW I think.
Thanks @Portpatrick (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=479) for confirming
I think you must be very unlucky, @Dr Al (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=263) . I got through straight away, and my green 'Claud' arrived this morning, less than 24 hours later:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/129/2975-060123174648.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=129005)
I'm contemplating repainting my black one in GER blue as the original Claud Hamilton, but I might need to try and fabricate some valences which would test my modelling skills to the limit.
Like most people, I suppose, you expect these guys to go on for ever, so I regret not buying other UM locos when I had the chance. Ah well...
Cheers,
Chris
Quote from: Papyrus on January 06, 2023, 05:58:55 PM
I think you must be very unlucky, @Dr Al (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=263) .
I don't think 11 attempts, and twice, minutes after it was engaged, is unlucky - for some reason he just refuses to pick up. Hopeless.
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Dr Al on January 06, 2023, 06:01:49 PM
Quote from: Papyrus on January 06, 2023, 05:58:55 PM
I think you must be very unlucky, @Dr Al (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=263) .
I don't think 11 attempts, and twice, minutes after it was engaged, is unlucky - for some reason he just refuses to pick up. Hopeless.
Cheers,
Alan
Having said that he is intending to retire he must be inundated with callers so I think it perfectly reasonable for him to get some peace and quite and leave his phone alone.
He has always been a pleasure to deal with as far as my experience goes.
GE
Maybe....but given twice I was literally minutes after (probably) the folks above who just seem to phone once... seems pretty strange to me. 9 times the phone just rang out, so not sure inundated....
...I'm afraid that's lost the business, as I don't have time next week to go through trying all that again.
Cheers,
Alan
Someone said the stamps would be a collectors item so iv'e photographed them first before i even open the package - D16 & J25 in Black
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/129/8822-060123200154.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=129012)
Reading the LNER encyclopaedia www.LNER.info (http://www.lner.info) has the black D16 as a 'Royal engine' so detailing would be increased to show the polishing :uneasy:
I got through by phone to Colin first attempt after sending an email and he was ready to take my order/payment so its obviously gone very busy over the post Xmas period as news of his retirement has spread.
I do hope we can collectively encourage these remaining 'specialist' guys to carry on even if we N-gaugers do represent only a smaller portion of the railway modellers. We also need to promote ourselves and our skills which i believe are distinctly above average given the scale to which we work.
Thanks to Colin and all N suppliers.
According to a post on the UM Facebook group Colin is now sold out of all remaining stock, since his retirement was made public.
So is it now a case of "That's all Folks!" ?
Quote from: Portpatrick on January 06, 2023, 03:24:51 PMYes this is an issue with the "cottage industry" nature of some key suppliers to our hobby. Gone as far as I can see, is ABS Beaver, GEM, Graham Hughes, I think, who did a kit of the Glen.
It has been common practice in the past for various ranges of N gauge kits to be acquired by others as the original manufacturers retired, changed interests, or simply saw an opportunity to sell their product range(s).
But here is the good news. After various acquisitions too complex to list here, the original N gauge kit ranges of Beaver, N Gauge Lines (John Warner), Skytrex Road 'N' Rail (later rebranded as Fleetline), Fleetline, GEM, and Lytchett Manor Models have all be acquired by Daryle Toney, owner of John Day Models - http://www.johndaymodels.co.uk/ (http://www.johndaymodels.co.uk/)
The Beaver range of N gauge loco kits are available now on this website and they are also available on eBay. Some other Beaver kits are also available. The website gives further details.
Daryle is working on gradually releasing all of the N gauge models that he has acquired over the past couple of years but I do not know the timeline for this.
I have no connection with John Day Models other than Daryle and I have corresponded regarding the ABS/Beaver LNER J63 0-6-0T loco kit, a model that I have a particular obsession with. Note that the ABS/Beaver J63 kit is a completely different kit to the Minitrix J63 kit that was released back in 1967.
Ian
Quote from: icairns on January 06, 2023, 09:13:44 PM
Daryle is working on gradually releasing all of the N gauge models that he has acquired over the past couple of years but I do not know the timeline for this.
Interesting - will be interesting to see how many can be recovered - it was said that Skytrex (later Lytchett Manor) Garratt moulds were basically shot. Certainly the later ones I saw were pretty rough! Maybe better expertise can resurrect them.
I'm sure too there'd be demand for some of the GEM loco kits, like the Patriot and its scale Fowler tender.
Cheers,
Alan
Yes this is an issue with the "cottage industry" nature of some key suppliers to our hobby. Gone as far as I can see, is ABS Beaver, GEM, Graham Hughes, I think, who did a kit of the Glen. Is Chivers still around? I have a few of his OTA kits. Dare I ponder how secure is the future of PD Marsh and Langley. I continue to use both for the bits element of a layout, and have certainly used their loco kits in the past - rendered tricky by the growing lack of usable #Poole chassis. There are others
[/quote]
Both PD Marsh and Langley should update their kits and possibly provide a chassis for them as they both produced useable locomotive prototypes. For example the Collet 0-6-0 goods isn't available as an R-T-R model but a kit is still in Langley's range.Sonic produced a 56xx recently but now is unavailable,when wil it return?
I see, largely due to a response by me, this UM thread has expanded into comments on the smaller " cottage industry " suppliers who have played and still do play an important place in our hobby. My apologies to admin. If you want to move these exchanges to a dedicated thread I fully understand.
Quote from: Dr Al on January 06, 2023, 09:18:40 PMInteresting - will be interesting to see how many can be recovered - it was said that Skytrex (later Lytchett Manor) Garratt moulds were basically shot. Certainly the later ones I saw were pretty rough! Maybe better expertise can resurrect them.
Cheers,
Alan
Interestingly, in my correspondence with Daryle Toney, he stated that he thought the Beyer-Garratt moulds were not in too bad of a shape. In his opinion, he thought that the casting problems had been caused by several issues including not cleaning moulds properly, too much powder, which in turn caused loss of detail, poor quality metal, and not rejecting poor castings.
Ian
P.S. Sorry if I got carried away with this cottage industry information, but I am very interested in the history of British N gauge
Thread Hijack <OFF>
Quote from: Portpatrick on January 06, 2023, 05:04:40 PM
Quote from: Rowlie on January 06, 2023, 04:54:36 PM
Memory might be playing tricks with me, however fairly sure there was an article on Union Mills and its manufacturing process a few years back.
In N Gauge NOW I think.
If someone can tell me which issue I'd be able to find it quickly - I have every issue from No.1.
If I get time today, I'll start looking through, but will have to brave the loft to find old issues.
Cheers
OFF-topic (conclusion).
Quote from: icairns on January 06, 2023, 10:51:42 PM
Quote from: Dr Al on January 06, 2023, 09:18:40 PMInteresting - will be interesting to see how many can be recovered - it was said that Skytrex (later Lytchett Manor) Garratt moulds were basically shot. Certainly the later ones I saw were pretty rough! Maybe better expertise can resurrect them.
Cheers,
Alan
Interestingly, in my correspondence with Daryle Toney, he stated that he thought the Beyer-Garratt moulds were not in too bad of a shape. In his opinion, he thought that the casting problems had been caused by several issues including not cleaning moulds properly, too much powder, which in turn caused loss of detail, poor quality metal, and not rejecting poor castings.
Ian
P.S. Sorry if I got carried away with this cottage industry information, but I am very interested in the history of British N gauge
Thread Hijack <OFF>
Thanks Ian - very interesting, it sounds like Daryle knows what he's talking about which is good.
In terms of other cottage, and bringing back towards UM - I don't understand why Langley perpetuate kits like their 2251 Collett 0-6-0 - surely they can't sell many now, given there's been both a Peco RTR, and latterly the UM RTR? Admittedly, both are now discontinued, but I'd be intrigued to know if any kits like this really sell.
/end kit talk.
Cheers,
Alan
Hi @Firstone18 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6899) can't remember the date, but it must be 3-4 years back.
Thanks I've found it!
I also found an index page covering all issues to date - I should have remembered this as it is in the last issue!
For anyone interested there are articles on 'The Poole years' for Graham Farish, and 'Hornby Minitrix: History' for the H-M range; both very interesting articles. I found the H-M one particularly interesting as I've just been give a box with 5 H-M locos and wish I had discovered this range sooner.
Of particular interest to me are Boadicea and Mallard as both appear to be 'as new' in condition; there is also a 9F in almost the same condition, but with a finger print on the tender body.
Happy days to follow converting these to DCC when I can afford the decoders!
Cheers
Quote from: Firstone18 on January 07, 2023, 09:55:14 AM
Quote from: Portpatrick on January 06, 2023, 05:04:40 PM
Quote from: Rowlie on January 06, 2023, 04:54:36 PM
Memory might be playing tricks with me, however fairly sure there was an article on Union Mills and its manufacturing process a few years back.
In N Gauge NOW I think.
If someone can tell me which issue I'd be able to find it quickly - I have every issue from No.1.
If I get time today, I'll start looking through, but will have to brave the loft to find old issues.
Cheers
Colin has attached the page to the invoice I received this week - "The Union Man" by Billy Ingham in issue 1 2014 of The N Gauge Now. He also printed on the reverse a "List of Union Mills models made" which details the changes to to the tender drive over the years from 1994. Then each loco box I received has a sheet with a potted history of the prototypes and explaining which version he has modelled.
Clearly Colin is to be regarded as more than a manufacturer, extolling the passion train lovers have of certain locos, periods and 'families' during the steam years, into the models he has produced. It's certainly not big manufacturer style but boy is it a pleasure to unwrap a loco - or two!
The list of model types made, and motors used, is here;
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=56393.0 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=56393.0)
Martyn
Quote from: Rowlie on January 06, 2023, 04:54:36 PM
Memory might be playing tricks with me, however fairly sure there was an article on Union Mills and its manufacturing process a few years back.
Perhaps you are thinking of the article in
British Railway Modelling, October, 2017. It was very interesting, with several illustrations.
Best wishes
John
Quote from: Dr Al on January 07, 2023, 12:42:05 PM
OFF-topic (conclusion).
Quote from: icairns on January 06, 2023, 10:51:42 PM
Quote from: Dr Al on January 06, 2023, 09:18:40 PMInteresting - will be interesting to see how many can be recovered - it was said that Skytrex (later Lytchett Manor) Garratt moulds were basically shot. Certainly the later ones I saw were pretty rough! Maybe better expertise can resurrect them.
Cheers,
Alan
Interestingly, in my correspondence with Daryle Toney, he stated that he thought the Beyer-Garratt moulds were not in too bad of a shape. In his opinion, he thought that the casting problems had been caused by several issues including not cleaning moulds properly, too much powder, which in turn caused loss of detail, poor quality metal, and not rejecting poor castings.
Ian
P.S. Sorry if I got carried away with this cottage industry information, but I am very interested in the history of British N gauge
Thread Hijack <OFF>
Thanks Ian - very interesting, it sounds like Daryle knows what he's talking about which is good.
In terms of other cottage, and bringing back towards UM - I don't understand why Langley perpetuate kits like their 2251 Collett 0-6-0 - surely they can't sell many now, given there's been both a Peco RTR, and latterly the UM RTR? Admittedly, both are now discontinued, but I'd be intrigued to know if any kits like this really sell.
/end kit talk.
Cheers,
Alan
I've bought one and looking at buying some PD Marsh loco kits, also the Langley 56xx due to the lack of "off the shelf RTR".
Thank you so much to everyone who has replied regarding the article I sort of half remember, it was reassuring to know I wasn't going mad.
Quote from: Train Waiting on January 07, 2023, 03:53:22 PM
Quote from: Rowlie on January 06, 2023, 04:54:36 PM
Memory might be playing tricks with me, however fairly sure there was an article on Union Mills and its manufacturing process a few years back.
Perhaps you are thinking of the article in British Railway Modelling, October, 2017. It was very interesting, with several illustrations.
Best wishes
John
just found that in the articles I have retained and files. I had forgotten that one . Yes. Much more detailed that the one in N Gauge Now.
@martyn (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=447) - thanks for the prompt about other locos operating from Norwich, I'd already got to grips with the following sites for info - LNER encyclopaedia and the Rail UK data base. I've also found the GER society have a data base called "Modelling East Anglia's railways in 2mm Scale v1.1" at . https://www.gersociety.org.uk/images/stories/documents/Modelling_East_Anglias_railways_in_2mm_Scale_v1.1_March_21.pdf (https://www.gersociety.org.uk/images/stories/documents/Modelling_East_Anglias_railways_in_2mm_Scale_v1.1_March_21.pdf)
This is far more informative for modellers and lists RTR and kits for a wide range of locos, coaches, wagons and buildings. I think its dated about 2021 so hopefully the author Stuart Pigg will revise it periodically, if you find info that's relevant he gives his email as stu.railinfo@gmail.com
I'm now saving pennies and pounds wherever possible to add UM models as they appear - no doubt other modellers will too!
Cheers Chris
:offtopicsign: :offtopicsign: :offtopicsign:@Greygreaser
Many thanks for the link.
It is a little out of date-there are now 3D prints for, at least, the Peppercorn K1 and Robinson O1.
The list I gave was off the top of my head, and for RTR locos, not kits (of which I have a nymber).
Martyn
Correction, should be Robinson O4 not O1.
Hi.
Thanks for putting this up.
Latest version has been posted in a new topic.
Sorry I haven't updated it in the meantime. Combination of life getting in the way, lack of new products and the first version took me a while to produce and I was getting a little sick of it!
I've got a version 2.1 ready but wanted to get more feedback before I put it up.
Stu
Quote from: martyn on January 09, 2023, 07:35:11 AM
:offtopicsign: :offtopicsign: :offtopicsign:@Greygreaser
Many thanks for the link.
It is a little out of date-there are now 3D prints for, at least, the Peppercorn K1 and Robinson O1.
The list I gave was off the top of my head, and for RTR locos, not kits (of which I have a nymber).
Martyn
Yes I have noted the K1 K4 and both versions of the K2 from Newman Miniatures on the Shapeways site. The challenge apart from handrails, other details etc, is to source a Farish N class for a reasonable price, as donor of the chassis. Now I have a new release Dapol Brit, I am faced with 3 options with my 1sr release Tornado. Keep it, sell it or buy the moulding and extra bits to turn it into a Clan. Rudi Newman has done boiler for this.
Quote from: Portpatrick on January 09, 2023, 07:30:09 PM
The challenge apart from handrails, other details etc, is to source a Farish N class for a reasonable price, as donor of the chassis.
I've not priced up an N chassis but for prints requiring the 4F and C class chassis I just ordered the required bits from the Bachmann spares website. All the bits for a working chassis for both came out at around £65 each which is a lot less than trying to source a cheap, complete loco.
Quote from: thebrighton on January 09, 2023, 08:02:02 PM
Quote from: Portpatrick on January 09, 2023, 07:30:09 PM
The challenge apart from handrails, other details etc, is to source a Farish N class for a reasonable price, as donor of the chassis.
I've not priced up an N chassis but for prints requiring the 4F and C class chassis I just ordered the required bits from the Bachmann spares website. All the bits for a working chassis for both came out at around £65 each which is a lot less than trying to source a cheap, complete loco.
You've done well there. I had not noticed Bob Russell sold either complete motorised chassis or the necessary bits to create one. I must look again at his lists.
Don't wait too long - we all retire sooner or later :)
Quote from: Portpatrick on January 09, 2023, 07:30:09 PM
You've done well there. I had not noticed Bob Russell sold either complete motorised chassis or the necessary bits to create one. I must look again at his lists.
I think Roy LS meant the official Bachmann spares website at https://bachmann-spares.co.uk/ (https://bachmann-spares.co.uk/), not BR Lines.
Richard
I would like to float the idea of forming a company or an association to save the cottage industries that are disappearing due to retirement of the owners.
I would like this to be lead by the younger members of the forum such as acko, steven B, dr Al, exmouth craig, ian arkell, steadfast, njee, embjaybee, etc., to ensure continuity.
The older members would provide finance, help with the admin.
The idea would be to purchase stock and tooling to allow availability of what exists to continue but not to launch new products to compete with RTR or the NGS.
At least one salaried employee would be needed. I would volunteer if I didn't live in France.
Quote from: joe cassidy on January 09, 2023, 09:06:34 PM
I would like to float the idea of forming a company or an association to save the cottage industries that are disappearing due to retirement of the owners.
I would like this to be lead by the younger members of the forum such as acko, steven B, dr Al, exmouth craig, ian arkell, steadfast, njee, embjaybee, etc., to ensure continuity.
The older members would provide finance, help with the admin.
The idea would be to purchase stock and tooling to allow availability of what exists to continue but not to launch new products to compete with RTR or the NGS.
At least one salaried employee would be needed. I would volunteer if I didn't live in France.
For such an endeavour, those involved would need to be able to run a business, to be able to build models, understand toolings, electrics etc.
It doesn't always go well buying somone else's business, Union Mills wasn't a company, it was one person with all the skills, take away that person and what are you left with?
You cannot simply mop up old companies and think it will all be ok, Union Mills might have been sufficient for a one man band, add in several people trying to run it, a salaried (skilled modeller salaried??) for a small market of N gaugers who may turn up their noses when it is no longer Colin running the business and you'll soon be in a mess.
Quote from: joe cassidy on January 09, 2023, 09:06:34 PM
I would like to float the idea of forming a company or an association to save the cottage industries that are disappearing due to retirement of the owners.
I would like this to be lead by the younger members of the forum such as acko, steven B, dr Al, exmouth craig, ian arkell, steadfast, njee, embjaybee, etc., to ensure continuity.
The older members would provide finance, help with the admin.
The idea would be to purchase stock and tooling to allow availability of what exists to continue but not to launch new products to compete with RTR or the NGS.
At least one salaried employee would be needed. I would volunteer if I didn't live in France.
Brilliant idea!
Quote from: Portpatrick on January 09, 2023, 08:21:00 PM
You've done well there. I had not noticed Bob Russell sold either complete motorised chassis or the necessary bits to create one. I must look again at his lists.
As mentioned above Bachmann now sell spares direct from their website at the link provided to which I was referring rather than Bob Russell.
Mad system. I had forgotten my password. Asked for a reset. Duly followed the instructions. Input new password and confirm with the same code. It then tells me they don't match. For goodness sake!!!@
Also bear in mind Colin very deliberately kept his production at a certain level to keep him below the VAT threshold and (1) I strongly suspect that he was not solely dependent on UM for his income, more a paid "hobby" and (2) in a "new" world were VAT added to the models along with any other associated extra costs, they would no longer be anything like as financially attractive in comparison to "mainstream" models.
Quote from: Roy L S on January 09, 2023, 10:40:27 PM
Also bear in mind Colin very deliberately kept his production at a certain level to keep him below the VAT threshold and (1) I strongly suspect that he was not solely dependent on UM for his income, more a paid "hobby" and (2) in a "new" world were VAT added to the models along with any other associated extra costs, they would no longer be anything like as financially attractive in comparison to "mainstream" models.
Very reasonable point. Apart from the fact that at 78 and47 years in related business it is reasonable enough to want to hand up whatever he hangs up,
QuoteThe older members would provide finance, help with the admin.
I might be able to provide £1 or 2K, but make yer minds up soon I must be the oldest member.
Sorry Colin, I am probably being exceptionally dim here, but I have never heard the phrase "want to hand up whatever he hangs up" can you expand? :dunce:
Sorry Roy. I meant hang up whatever he hangs up. A teacher might hang up their gown, a barrister their wig, as a retired accountant my quill pen, ledger and abacus. For Colin his blue overal?
By the way having spent 40 years in my profession, plus a total of 11 years as Hon Treasurer of 3 charitable bodies 5 of those years after I retired from employment, I have hung mine up, and will not be finance supremo of a UM/cottage industry takeover.
Quote from: Portpatrick on January 09, 2023, 10:37:18 PM
Mad system. I had forgotten my password. Asked for a reset. Duly followed the instructions. Input new password and confirm with the same code. It then tells me they don't match. For goodness sake!!!@
I had been trying to reset the password on my phone and getting the non result reported. I Then tried on the desktop PC. I did actually reset the password but the virus system regards Bachman Spares as a non secure site. Hmm!
As much as it is a nice idea for the forum to take it over - if that was possible, let's face it - there would be no "wish list" posts, and the site would be covered with advertising stating "The N-Gauge forum is proud to present the latest Class 117, APT-E and Twins ready to run models" amongst other things. If it was as simple as some cash and talented people, the forum would be churning out models.
Quote from: Woodenhead on January 09, 2023, 09:47:10 PM
Quote from: joe cassidy on January 09, 2023, 09:06:34 PM
I would like to float the idea of forming a company or an association to save the cottage industries that are disappearing due to retirement of the owners.
I would like this to be lead by the younger members of the forum such as acko, steven B, dr Al, exmouth craig, ian arkell, steadfast, njee, embjaybee, etc., to ensure continuity.
The older members would provide finance, help with the admin.
The idea would be to purchase stock and tooling to allow availability of what exists to continue but not to launch new products to compete with RTR or the NGS.
At least one salaried employee would be needed. I would volunteer if I didn't live in France.
For such an endeavour, those involved would need to be able to run a business, to be able to build models, understand toolings, electrics etc.
It doesn't always go well buying somone else's business, Union Mills wasn't a company, it was one person with all the skills, take away that person and what are you left with?
You cannot simply mop up old companies and think it will all be ok, Union Mills might have been sufficient for a one man band, add in several people trying to run it, a salaried (skilled modeller salaried??) for a small market of N gaugers who may turn up their noses when it is no longer Colin running the business and you'll soon be in a mess.
Indeed... Plus of course the vital ingredient for the purchase of an existing business (which is actually the
easy part) is an owner wanting/willing to sell, and that appears not to be the case with UM...
That being the case, any futher discussion is rather pointless ::)
I would be interested to know Alan Cox's @EtchedPixels (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=222) opinion on this subject.
Alan was the man who took over the Ultima coach kits business a few years ago.
Quote from: joe cassidy on January 10, 2023, 11:13:11 AM
I would be interested to know Alan Cox's @EtchedPixels (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=222) opinion on this subject.
Alan was the man who took over the Ultima coach kits business a few years ago.
Not forgetting that the core of the Ultima business was the prior acquisition of the PC Models printed acetate coach sides by Colin Albright...
In both transactions you had willing sellers, and purchasers with both market knowledge and business acumen, plus a development plan that expanded the business in new directions.
Even then, it didn't reach the volumes and turnover necessary to employ salaried staff as your model envisages under either ownership...
All in all, a much different proposition to a random group of well meaning but naïve individuals trying to take control from someone who doesn't want to sell, with no development plan beyond 'hold station' with the present range...
Quote from: joe cassidy on January 09, 2023, 09:06:34 PM
I would like to float the idea of forming a company or an association to save the cottage industries that are disappearing due to retirement of the owners.
I would like this to be lead by the younger members of the forum such as acko, steven B, dr Al, exmouth craig, ian arkell, steadfast, njee, embjaybee, etc., to ensure continuity.
The older members would provide finance, help with the admin.
The idea would be to purchase stock and tooling to allow availability of what exists to continue but not to launch new products to compete with RTR or the NGS.
At least one salaried employee would be needed. I would volunteer if I didn't live in France.
As one of the aforementioned 'bods', frankly, my best response is "yer barking!".
The only hope for retention of previous companies/products is for them to pass down through generations, pass to associates, or be acquired by similar existing companies. Much like Etched Pixels, the NGS, and the like.
In the fast moving age of 3D printing, etc., a lot of these items are going to be easily replicable and produceable by individuals willing to produce and small scale sell on to others. Examples of this practice are already with us on this forum. I mean, even a pretty inexperienced modeller like myself is looking to (hopefully) try some loco building with available items.
Quote from: joe cassidy on January 10, 2023, 11:13:11 AM
I would be interested to know Alan Cox's @EtchedPixels (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=222) opinion on this subject.
Alan was the man who took over the Ultima coach kits business a few years ago.
That would be the Alan Cox who is running down Etched Pixels so he can retire, and has given no indication that he intends to sell the business to anyone so that his products can stay in production. That Alan Cox?
Sorry Joe, but randomly throwing out the names of people that "you'd like to see" (!!) take over a business, with no indication that you've either talked to them beforehand or are prepared to play an active part in making your wish come to fruition, doesn't add up to a realistic business plan!
Richard
I didn't mention any business plan, I "floated an idea" :)
Quote from: joe cassidy on January 10, 2023, 01:14:24 PM
I didn't mention any business plan, I "floated an idea" :)
And those of a more realistic and practical outlook have highlighted the many icebergs ;)
A few years ago - 12-13 I believe 8)
I would recommend being naiive, otherwise you'll have more sense than to do it.
In general I'd say the bigger problems are the non obvious ones
- The number of people who will run old plastic moulding tooling in the UK is close to zero and they have an age profile that looks like the bingo club
- The number of white metal casters is down to near zero
- I don't know if anyone still offers die casting small scale (I guess someone does because UM had stuff diecast)
- If one or two folks like markits disappears nobody will have any wheels
You also have the legislative ones where some screen printing processes that were used are basically now forbidden (toluene inks), and white metal should have gone the same way already except the EU has been a bit occupied and the UK is up ... yeah
On the bright side some of it is now a lot easier because the technology is truly available to all.
3D print is easy. I've been putting the 3D print stuff up on my github as I sell out - along with some unfinished projects. Once it's out there it's out there forever-ish. Similar things are possible for etches and for stuff lie vinyl (where you just need a vinyl cutter or a friendly digital print house). @emjaybee (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5604) is bang on here
Older etches are problematic because they may not exist in digital form, but modern stuff is just a file you can send to PPD or someone and magic happens and whilst some of the setup I use is weird and not shareable I can raster the images at 1200dpi which will work fine, or find someone to own the PPD sheets to run whenever needed.
For EP/Ultima my current plans (subject to change) are
- 3D print will go to the github with suitable licensing (generally non commercial but cc0 for some simpler stuff)
- Etches I will probably render and put somewhere as they sell out. At least for the EP ones where I have the digital artwork. Ultima is more complicated as old stuff is not digital, later stuff is FreeHand 3 (so you'll need a Mac68K emulator and mucho fun but it is doable)
- The turned brass parts will just run out and someone can work out how to 3D print or get new ones turned in bulk
- Wheels were always re-sold from other sources
- White metal is trickier. I need to have some discussions around that but I have a plan. That said a lot of the white metal parts could be redone in etch (and some were in later kits) or 3D print. Dynamos are probably the pain in the arse one there.
- Plastic is waiting me to find the other tools and send them off to see where we go with that, but they are mostly shot and again you can do a better job of roofs in 3D print and include the ventilators or ventilator holes
People get attached to the old but its often a chance to revisit the possibilities. 3D printed bogies are much more civilised than etched ones for most people, and whilst they need 13mm axles it's not a difficult problem to solve. Bodies, roofs, detailing are all often easier done in 3D print as well. Old style screen print can often be digitally printed - although in some cases you lose the depth.
There is hard stuiff - locomotive mechanisms for example.
Even when you use some of the old parts it's often worth a rethink. The last LMS sleeper I built as a test before I decided enough was enough used etched end overlays, 3D printed shell with interior, roof and vent hols, the usual underframe bits and the pre-printed sides from ancient times. Was a hell of a lot easier to build than the old way!
Likewise I suspect it will often be harder to resurrect many old things than just move to a new process and a better item as you go.
So were anyone foolish enough to go down the route of limited batch production in N, it seems the best option is to start from completely from scratch, embrace latest tech and (e.g.) use 3D prints/simple fold up etches as a basis.
Wheelset production would be a challenge as would the mechanics of a simple drive-mechanism and taking all these things into consideration it perhaps begins to be much easier to understand why Colin produced locos the way he did.
He has said sourcing motors in volumes suitable for his scale of operation is one of the reasons he has decided to pack it in, but has anyone asked him where he sourced his wheels/axles/ gears? I am assuming they have not been produced in house although from the pics I have seen, there is a lot of kit in his workshop and I would think him more than capable if it is suitable.
All the above said, even if someone had the time, skills and contacts to source/make what is needed to produce a simple batch produced steam loco there is then the issue of cost. Even if this theoretical producer only factored their time in at a very philanthropic minimum hourly rate, to cover costs, the end-user would I suspect have to pay close to CJM type prices for a simple 0-6-0 tender loco. From comments (even on this forum alone) about what people want to pay it would therefore simply not work - if the expectation were that we would be talking the £80 - £100 range of UM models they would be way off the mark and by logical extension therefore not in the market for one.
Roy
Thank you to "Pixels" and Roy fir your Reflections other realities of production. I may have retired as an accountant but I can see the tally mounting!
I must look at the BRM article again, the impression I have being that he moulded driving wheel centres himself. I may have misunderstood . We must accept that the Um range is on the used market only. No doubt the future lies in 3D and resin rather than cast metal. The downside of that is the need to provide traction by other means, a combination of interior weighting and tyres. The latter of course need replacing periodically. Someone on the FB thread warned of the eventual failure of mazac casting. Valid point. In the 1930s my father scratch built a Clauud Hamilton body, from a photo, onto his Hornby O clockwork chassis. For as long as I can remember, ie from the 1960s the mechanism has been unusable because of mazac failure, notably the wheels. The oldest of my remaining Poole kettles are nearer 40 years old. As are at least one white metal body. It will be interesting to see whether they and my UM locos last me out!
Given that UM delivered simple robust inside cylindered locomotives, then we already have his replacement in the market.
Sonic models - producer of the 66xx 0-6-2 has indicated his primary interest are such locomotives, his models will also be higher fidelity and DCC ready so will build upon the base Colin had.
Even if someone took over UM, there is going to be a period where no new models exist and then a slow build of models over many years, no different to what Sonic will be doing. So in reality Colin has bowed out at the exact time a new entrant capable of delivering similar models to his has entered the market - nice timing.
I have heard it said that Sam/Sonic is sticking to tank locos for the foreseeable future(anyone who knows more please correct me if wrong) 2 out of the three we already know about are GW, a company which from all accounts Sam has a particular liking for. These will only be sold via Rails of Sheffield.
So, in terms of the everyday tender-locos such as UM have produced (even ones with simple motion) from what I understand Sonic will not be filling the void anytime soon, so dreams of RTR locos like the J36 and D34 "Glen" RTR or even a "new" (and much more mainstream) state of the art J26/J27 seem remote :(
Roy
I confirm what Roy says, I emailed Sonic back in October asking if there was any chance of an SR 4-6-0, Sam's reply was that he was concentrating on Tank locos, and from what Roy says I'd not be surprised if he does every GWR tank, should be easy enough, the only differences are number of wheels and either 0-6-0 saddle tanks or prairie side tanks ::)
Quote from: Dorsetmike on January 11, 2023, 03:29:57 PM
if he does every GWR tank, should be easy enough, the only differences are number of wheels and either 0-6-0 saddle tanks or prairie side tanks ::)
Very funny :smiley-laughing: Of course you mean panniers rather than saddle tanks.
And of course the LMS only ever built Jinties, the LNER never built anything small, relying on pre-amalgamation engines, and the southern only built 4-6-0s which nobody wants to take on as a manufacturer!
Bob
Quote from: Bob G on January 11, 2023, 03:44:33 PM
Quote from: Dorsetmike on January 11, 2023, 03:29:57 PM
if he does every GWR tank, should be easy enough, the only differences are number of wheels and either 0-6-0 saddle tanks or prairie side tanks ::)
Very funny :smiley-laughing: Of course you mean panniers rather than saddle tanks.
And of course the LMS only ever built Jinties, the LNER never built anything small, relying on pre-amalgamation engines, and the southern only built 4-6-0s which nobody wants to take on as a manufacturer!
Bob
Well, the LMS got it right first time. Didn't have to keep fiddlin' to get one that worked properly.
:whistle:
Quote from: Roy L S on January 11, 2023, 03:15:06 PM
I have heard it said that Sam/Sonic is sticking to tank locos for the foreseeable future(anyone who knows more please correct me if wrong) 2 out of the three we already know about are GW, a company which from all accounts Sam has a particular liking for. These will only be sold via Rails of Sheffield.
So, in terms of the everyday tender-locos such as UM have produced (even ones with simple motion) from what I understand Sonic will not be filling the void anytime soon, so dreams of RTR locos like the J36 and D34 "Glen" RTR or even a "new" (and much more mainstream) state of the art J26/J27 seem remote :(
One of the ways UM made things work for small scale is very careful choices and compromises
- Always tender driven using I think one of two tender motor mechanisms
- Simple diecast shells and locomotives chosen to be castable
- Black, black or black and later mostly green
- Standard wheel choices
- No complicated to assemble motion
It's more like a pizza business. You may sell 50 different pizzas but if you look hard they are all actually just a rearrangement of a fairly small set of toppings. That's the only way a lot of pre 3D print kit stuff works out, or small rtr. Indeed until quite modern times it's how big RTR worked too.
This btw is also why GWR coaches always get the short end of the stick. The LMS built stuff to standards so if you stick with P2/P3/P4 the number of parts to assemble almost any coach is quite small. The LNER had a few phases but a lot of standardisation and everyone wants a rake of Gresley teak stock not the weird stuff. The Southern stuff was very standardised, as were many of the companies that fed into it. The GWR made things up as they went along. That makes it very much harder to do a range of GWR coaches.
Not quite what you are asking for but....
Quote from: Roy L S on January 11, 2023, 03:15:06 PM
RTR locos like the J36
Not RTR, but there's a 3D printed J36 available, and needs only a (very minorly modified) Farish C class chassis, and is an easy build if you don't want to go mega on detail. Of course, you can go mega too...:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/122/263-170522232652-122826126.jpeg)
Quote from: Roy L S on January 11, 2023, 03:15:06 PM
and D34 "Glen"
Admittedly difficult this one, but there was the Graham Hughes kit.
Quote from: Roy L S on January 11, 2023, 03:15:06 PM
RTR or even a "new" (and much more mainstream) state of the art J26/J27 seem remote :(
Again not quite what you're asking for, but as well as the UM J26/7 there's the Nu-cast kit which is still moderately common out there, as well as plenty of UM produced models for superdetailing.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49879694532_cb9d9ffdb1_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iZGtpj)J27_final2 (https://flic.kr/p/2iZGtpj) by Dr Al 60103 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/68426125@N07/), on Flickr
I've got no less than 5 of these now.... :confused1:
Sure, I know these aren't what you are asking, but all we ask for is RTR....which isn't feasible, and means we all just end up with the same stock. There are other (admittedly more involved) options.
Cheers,
Alan
3D printng might be the future but it has a long way to go!
The metal printed items might be superb (I haven't seen any) but the resin ones that I have purchased aren't.
The problem I have with them are the visible lines of print layers and lack of smoothness.
Quote from: Dr Al on January 11, 2023, 07:40:49 PM
Not quite what you are asking for but....
Quote from: Roy L S on January 11, 2023, 03:15:06 PM
RTR locos like the J36
Not RTR, but there's a 3D printed J36 available, and needs only a (very minorly modified) Farish C class chassis, and is an easy build if you don't want to go mega on detail. Of course, you can go mega too...:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/122/263-170522232652-122826126.jpeg)
Quote from: Roy L S on January 11, 2023, 03:15:06 PM
and D34 "Glen"
Admittedly difficult this one, but there was the Graham Hughes kit.
Quote from: Roy L S on January 11, 2023, 03:15:06 PM
RTR or even a "new" (and much more mainstream) state of the art J26/J27 seem remote :(
Again not quite what you're asking for, but as well as the UM J26/7 there's the Nu-cast kit which is still moderately common out there, as well as plenty of UM produced models for superdetailing.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49879694532_cb9d9ffdb1_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iZGtpj)J27_final2 (https://flic.kr/p/2iZGtpj) by Dr Al 60103 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/68426125@N07/), on Flickr
I've got no less than 5 of these now.... :confused1:
Sure, I know these aren't what you are asking, but all we ask for is RTR....which isn't feasible, and means we all just end up with the same stock. There are other (admittedly more involved) options.
Cheers,
Alan
Yes I have noted that J36 3D body. The initial c£20 was very reasonable. But I then costed in the basic extras - smokebox door, funnel, dome, safety valves, whistle, buffers, and handrails from NBrass and they added up quite quickly. Add to that buying a C Class to use its chassis, if I can find one. I found one or two on FleeBay, at £100+. Total cost not over much less than a new complete C class, or other 060 from Farish. and there is the work to do to make and paint and number it. I do like the end product in the photo but I will stick with my adapted UM J25, in spite of its compromises! It is a pity the modeller preparing the print did not make it more complete - funnel dome, smokebox door, safety valves as Rudi Newman does with his K!/2/4 and Glen. That would cut the cost a bit.
/soapbox time, and probably :offtopicsign:
Quote from: Portpatrick on January 11, 2023, 11:34:41 PM
Yes I have noted that J36 3D body. The initial c£20 was very reasonable. But I then costed in the basic extras - smokebox door, funnel, dome, safety valves, whistle, buffers, and handrails from NBrass and they added up quite quickly. Add to that buying a C Class to use its chassis, if I can find one. I found one or two on FleeBay, at £100+. Total cost not over much less than a new complete C class, or other 060 from Farish. and there is the work to do to make and paint and number it.
This is therefore a bargain for a kit, IMHO, and a totally unique result.
As others have alluded, matching larger manufacturer RTR with either small RTR, or bespoke single builds (as these are) in terms of straight cost is simply implausible and ultimately impossible.
The J26 kits I have have cost a pittance - 30 quid for a donor replacement chassis, one kit cost 8 quid, others have cost more (maybe up to 35 quid), but were built already, so stripped back, so also had chassis that could then be refurbished and sold on. Detail parts under a tenner - so total built money wise 50 to 60 quid. So cheaper than a less detailed UM RTR. Savings can often be gained by buying bad liveries (i.e. ones that are less popular) for donor models, or damaged models. The J26s use those cheap SR trainset locos, which have a normal Farish 94xx chassis contained within, and a cheap body which can be discarded or sold on. These are cheap as it is, and if you get one with a toast drive gear, can be even cheaper. Of course you need to be capable of changing the gear.
This itself is part of the chase and the fun of sourcing parts, finding what you need at the price you need - and while I'm working that, I'm researching the model I want to build.
Crucially, for me, money isn't the full point. Of course, it's a problem given our high inflation times, and most can't ignore it and have to think very seriously about anything spent; but there also has to be recognition that there's more to this than just the base cost. How do you value the uniqueness of the result, the personal satisfaction of the build and the resulting model? After all, the modelling aspect is not meant to be a chore... But ultimately, these aspects are impossible to generalise and then monetarily consistently quantify, and are different for everyone, as they are fundamentally individually subjective.
The problem with mainstream RTR is that it implicitly devalues the awareness of difficulty of actually building stuff - most buyers just have no clue what is actually involved* - folk then baulk at the cost of kits, or bespoke builds, which then belittles the skill of the builders. Occasionally I've saved an old kitbuilt or detailed model from a disinterested secondhand market, precisely because I can see that someone, somewhere once valued that, once spent time and effort on it. That's not to say there's not skill in designing, making RTR, but that is amortised across a much larger number of models, perhaps even for many many years. If you were to ask for an RTR loco of quality we currently have over 1 loco, or even 100, the price would NOT be 165quid or whatever. It would be.....eyewateringly in the thousands to tens of thousands of pound type level. Bachmann said they've invested £1M in the recent all revised class 47 diesel tooling suite, for example.
The fact I have 65222 "Somme", a model I doubt anyone else on the planet has, a small unique tribute also to a family member who was was there in WW1, and it monetarily cost me maybe £140 all in, I feel is a very decent value**.
I'm sure others will not agree, and that's fine, though it shuts down a route to something different than run of the mill RTR.
Cheers,
Alan - who has had it suggested to him in several instances already, that he should take over UM.... :confused1:
* Physics teaches us that it is always easier to destroy than to build...so building should be valued...
** and don't forget the other poor sap. The monetary cut those who design and post 3D models on Shapeways actually get, doesn't remotely recognise their talents either.
Quote from: Dr Al on January 06, 2023, 04:22:57 PM
Quote from: Thorpe Parva on January 06, 2023, 11:55:14 AM
Ordered yesterday & arrived today.
I'm astonished. As well as perplexed. :worried:
I gave up years ago trying to buy new as it simply seemed impossible. Trying again this week given it's the last chance, and I've phoned him no less than ELEVEN times, including twice immediately after a previous attempt when I got the engaged tone, and not once have I managed to get him to pick up! It's literally.....hopeless! :doh:
Sorry, while it's a regret that UM are ceasing, I will be in the comical position of having literally never bought from him, despite being a prolific detailer of the models and owning a fair number.
Back to the secondhands I guess..... :confused1:
Cheers,
Alan
Sorry Alan I cannot agree.
Just because the phone line is engaged it does not necessarily mean that Colin was present and answering a call, but that someone else is phoning him.
I phoned last week to discuss a repair and he answered immediately.
This week I phoned again on Wednesday to order a new D16 and pay for the repair both arrived today Thursday.
I don't call that hopeless.
Maurice C.
Quote from: mojo on January 12, 2023, 12:34:12 PM
Quote from: Dr Al on January 06, 2023, 04:22:57 PM
Quote from: Thorpe Parva on January 06, 2023, 11:55:14 AM
Ordered yesterday & arrived today.
I'm astonished. As well as perplexed. :worried:
I gave up years ago trying to buy new as it simply seemed impossible. Trying again this week given it's the last chance, and I've phoned him no less than ELEVEN times, including twice immediately after a previous attempt when I got the engaged tone, and not once have I managed to get him to pick up! It's literally.....hopeless! :doh:
Sorry, while it's a regret that UM are ceasing, I will be in the comical position of having literally never bought from him, despite being a prolific detailer of the models and owning a fair number.
Back to the secondhands I guess..... :confused1:
Cheers,
Alan
Sorry Alan I cannot agree.
Just because the phone line is engaged it does not necessarily mean that Colin was present and answering a call, but that someone else is phoning him.
I phoned last week to discuss a repair and he answered immediately.
This week I phoned again on Wednesday to order a new D16 and pay for the repair both arrived today Thursday.
I don't call that hopeless.
Maurice C.
Call blocking possibly :o :laugh3: :D
Quote from: Snowwolflair on January 12, 2023, 12:37:09 PM
Call blocking possibly :o :laugh3: :D
Based on what*....the number is different to one I used before to (have the same result many years earlier - also hopeless)....and it's not one anyone knows if they somehow had a vendetta.....lol.....
*...and if he's blocking mobiles :jawdropping:, or just letting them ring out then that's madness - who has a landline nowadays....
Sure, it may not have been him when it was engaged, but regardless, 11 times reduces the statistical likelihood that it could have been missed - especially given they were on days that others have reported phoning, getting through and ordering immediately.
Sorry, I can only go on what I find, and that is: hopeless, and the business is therefore lost.
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: mojo on January 12, 2023, 12:34:12 PM
Sorry Alan I cannot agree.
[/quote]
Afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on that, as above.
Quote from: mojo on January 12, 2023, 12:34:12 PM
This week I phoned again on Wednesday to order a new D16 and pay for the repair both arrived today Thursday.
That's another on the one of the days I phoned - which rather increases the likelihood that the engaged was one of you guys...!
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Dr Al on January 12, 2023, 12:17:18 AM
/soapbox time, and probably :offtopicsign:
I am not farmiliar with a J26 kit you refer to. But it sounds as if you did well finding a 94xx chassis cheaply. It is increasingly difficult. I purchased a GF Hall last year as I needed the chassis to replace the very wobbly one under my BHE B12. It was mid priced. I have a 94xx is the spares box as the chassis is a spare for 2 of my butchered/kit locos.
I agree with your implication about the satisfaction of building. In the days of an earlier layout some 25% of my locos were kit built or butcher jobs. In spite of the examples I described in NGS journal 3/22 it is a much smaller proportion now. But yes I have over the years built many loco kits, loads of NGS wagons and a modest number of coaches. Less in the 2000s as my Essential Tremor made life increasingly challenging. Since 2020 and the successful neurosurgery the experts allowed on my right hand, life is a bit easier again - hence some of what I described in my article. And I have followed an article from some years ago to produce a couple of 120 DMUS, though they will be replaced when Revolution are able to produce theirs. But cost is an increasingly important factor. Hence my comments on the J36.
In many ways I would like Rudi's Scottish version of the K2, under rule 1. but like the C Class, N class locos are not easy to find. I saw one the other day at the Maidenhead show for nearly £100. Ouch. At least Rudi's prints do not requires so many additions as the J36. Like you I do wonder what the designers make on these 3D prints. I might ask Rudi next time I see him at the club.
I would add a comment I made on FB. I am influenced by the late Bill Oldroyd. I met him at shows in the late 1960s, early 70s. He was a real master at butchering RTR and kits into other things. An easy one was the Triang L1 into a 2P, although Hornby as it became had produced one by the time I was ready to have a go myself. Hence years ago a Std 5 made by shortening a minitrix Brit body and marrying in to a Farish B5 chassis. Or a much cut down Farish 61XX married to a minitrix Ivatt tank with simplified valve gear - a very presentable 55XX. I sold both!
Quote from: Portpatrick on January 12, 2023, 01:31:12 PM
I am not farmiliar with a J26 kit you refer to.
It's fairly old, but good quality Nu-Cast kit for J26 or J27 - they are more common than you might think, quite often seen built secondhand on old silver wheeled chassis. I've build a couple and rebuilt several more - indeed two in the last year, but I've not updated workbench (because of busy-ness, and also because again....the number of folk that seem interest is.....small....).
Quote from: Portpatrick on January 12, 2023, 01:31:12 PM
But it sounds as if you did well finding a 94xx chassis cheaply. It is increasingly difficult. I purchased a GF Hall last year as I needed the chassis to replace the very wobbly one under my BHE B12. It was mid priced. I have a 94xx is the spares box as the chassis is a spare for 2 of my butchered/kit locos.
I'd agree that the secondhand market has definitely changed over the last decade - there's stuff that is increasingly difficult to get. That said, the 94xx chassied SR tanks are out there - there was one on ebay for 28 quid working.............yesterday. So they are out there to be snagged!
Of course, people like me are 100% guilty in not helping, by buying up these when we see them, even when I don't immediately need one. I didn't buy the 28 quidder though...!
In terms of stuff like your wobbly hall - don't discard that! It can probably be repaired....and in the worst possible case there'll certainly be parts of value in it to transmogrify something else, or repair another hall.
Quote from: Portpatrick on January 12, 2023, 01:31:12 PM
Less in the 2000s as my Essential Tremor made life increasingly challenging. Since 2020 and the successful neurosurgery the experts allowed on my right hand, life is a bit easier again - hence some of what I described in my article. And I have followed an article from some years ago to produce a couple of 120 DMUS, though they will be replaced when Revolution are able to produce theirs. But cost is an increasingly important factor. Hence my comments on the J36.
Of course, physical health problems are a factor that may prevent building, and that of course is not what I get at.
The general thing is that statistically, so few build anything, and with the internet it's so much easier to feel that all folk shout about is RTR RTR RTR, I want more RTR :*( . And then complain vociferously when RTR turns up and has faults, inaccuracies, problems or whatever :smiley-laughing:.
Quote from: Portpatrick on January 12, 2023, 01:31:12 PM
In many ways I would like Rudi's Scottish version of the K2, under rule 1. but like the C Class, N class locos are not easy to find. I saw one the other day at the Maidenhead show for nearly £100. Ouch.
This is where we may diverge - £100 for a high probability of a superb running baseline chassis, is not cheap, but to me a price that I'd expect to pay. And bear in mind that's for the loco, you may recoup some of that selling on the parts of it you then wouldn't use on a kitbuild. It sounds like you could therefore get the parts for a K2 for something like £125-£160 - which is sort of current RTR loco prices.
Bear in mind prices are rapidly changing with inflation and the secondhand demand also - I'm still adjusting to £160ish being the new-normal for RTR...
Quote from: Portpatrick on January 12, 2023, 01:31:12 PM
I would add a comment I made on FB. I am influenced by the late Bill Oldroyd. I met him at shows in the late 1960s, early 70s. He was a real master at butchering RTR and kits into other things. An easy one was the Triang L1 into a 2P, although Hornby as it became had produced one by the time I was ready to have a go myself. Hence years ago a Std 5 made by shortening a minitrix Brit body and marrying in to a Farish B5 chassis. Or a much cut down Farish 61XX married to a minitrix Ivatt tank with simplified valve gear - a very presentable 55XX. I sold both!
Shame you did in some ways - of course they might be overshadowed by a modern RTR, but they would clearly have been something unique, that would have been interesting to see!
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Dr Al on January 06, 2023, 06:01:49 PM
I don't think 11 attempts, and twice, minutes after it was engaged, is unlucky - for some reason he just refuses to pick up.
Apologies if this has already been suggested, but have you considered writing him a letter? He would then be able to reply at his convenience.
Quote from: keithfre on January 12, 2023, 02:00:57 PM
Quote from: Dr Al link=topic=57395.msg785679#msg785679 date=1673028109 :D
I don't think 11 attempts, and twice, minutes after it was engaged, is unlucky - for some reason he just refuses to pick up.
Apologies if this has already been suggested, but have you considered writing him a letter? He would then be able to reply at his convenience.
As Colin has now sold out of all his remaining stock this is all a bit academic now! (Unless you were writing a letter to offer to take over the business... :D)
For the record though, I'd always previously bought Union Mills locos by sending a cheque in a letter, but when the notice of Colin's imminent retirement was posted above I called him for the first time ever, on my mobile. First attempt the phone rang and rang until I gave up. Left it an hour, called again in the late afternoon, and he answered in two rings. I ordered my four locos, wished him a happy retirement, and the locos arrived 36 hours later! That level of service will be missed...
My interpretation of the non-answering is that some landline phone systems only give an engaged tone to the first caller to ring whilst the phone is engaged. If there is more than one caller in the queue they just get RTNR - "ring tone no reply". The ring tone you hear in this situation isn't from the phone you are calling, but from the repeater bell in the exchange (or electronic equivalent). But really bad luck Dr Al.
Richard
Quotewho has a landline nowadays....
I only have a landline, I rarely make outgoing calls, probably less than 1 a month, I have mobility problems so rarely go out so I don't need a mobile phone. My late wife passed one of her mobile phones to me when she upgraded, I used it once in 6 months, then binned it when they wanted more money. (I don't have a TV either - they take up modelling time!)
Quotewho has a landline nowadays....
Me! I've had a simple PAYG mobile for decades (not a smart phone as I hate those) but a £10 top-up lasts for many months as I just don't use it other than for incoming texts (payment verification codes etc.) The reception indoors is so poor anyway, it has to sit on a windowsill. I always use the landline :)
Quote from: Dorsetmike on January 12, 2023, 02:53:16 PM
(I don't have a TV either - they take up modelling time!)
Aarrgh couldn't live without TVs all over the house :D
:offtopicsign: :offtopicsign:
@Dr Al (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=263)
I like seeing your modelling, as well as that of some others on the Forum who also have been quiet in recent months. You/they have given me inspiration and ideas in what and how I model. Please keep up the postings!
It could be, though, on people deciding what sort of 'modeller' they are. Some only want RTR, some will detail RTR, some like kit building for it's own sake, and any number of combinations in between.
Me-I like to detail RTR, kit build or convert RTR where feasible, and work within my limitations and knowledge-which has grown since becoming a member of the Forum and seeing just what can be achieved; and hopefully inspire others to think 'I could do that........but didn't know how to'
Martyn
Quote from: martyn on January 12, 2023, 04:33:16 PM
:offtopicsign: :offtopicsign:
@Dr Al (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=263)
I like seeing your modelling, as well as that of some others on the Forum who also have been quiet in recent months. You/they have given me inspiration and ideas in what and how I model. Please keep up the postings
If I could prolong the off-topic bit for a while... I entirely agree with Martyn - meant to say something like this in my last post but got distracted with the RTNR thing.
I find your loco build posts very interesting @Dr Al (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=263) - please resume postings when you have time. Interest might seem quiet, but that's because sometimes there's not a lot you can do to reply to one of your build/conversion posts except to say "Wow" or "Great Modelling", and too many of those posts make a thread a bit tedious. If this forum's rating/response system was easier to see and use, like the RMWeb one, I'd respond that way but I've never been able to make the NGF one work. (No criticism of Tank and the gang - I know you're using a proprietary forum format to keep costs down & the forum is much appreciated.)
Actually, this is on-topic as a lot of Dr Al's posts are about improving UM locos.
Richard
[in the late 1960s, early 70s. He was a real master at butchering RTR and kits into other things. An easy one was the Triang L1 into a 2P, although Hornby as it became had produced one by the time I was ready to have a go myself. Hence years ago a Std 5 made by shortening a minitrix Brit body and marrying in to a Farish B5 chassis. Or a much cut down Farish 61XX married to a minitrix Ivatt tank with simplified valve gear - a very presentable 55XX. I sold both!
[/quote]
Shame you did in some ways - of course they might be overshadowed by a modern RTR, but they would clearly have been something unique, that would have been interesting to see!
Cheers,
Alan
[/quote]
It is a shame I did not have the camera equipment to photo some of my creations. I was using my phone for the Journal Article! I sold all the GWR stuff c 2003/4 when I had sold the layout - Abersoch . It appeared in the RM for a short mid age article and was at Aly Paly in 2001. That included the Manor, and 2 moguls from PD March. A Langley Collett Goods as well as some of my own creations. The Std 5 was sold just after I bought the farish offering. I have another on order with TMC for weathering. When I had the 61XX body cut into 4 pieces I did doubt my sanity! But the resulting 55XX was pleasing. More recently Dapol offered it and if I had still been modelling in Wales rather than Scotland, I would have had one. Of course I make no pretence that my butchering produces other than what is at typical viewing distances, a recognisable representation. As well as some fun working out what might look presentable. I have had a comment along the lines of "where did that K4 come from"!
Yes we do diverge on the cost related issues. I have just paid £133 for Firth of Forth, a superb offering from Dapols new release of Brits. What to do with my first release, Tornado (yes that name was given to a BBrit). Sell it or use the chassis for one of Rudi's 3D Clans? Decisions. But apart from being wary financially (which you might expect from a retired accountant with some Scottish blood in my veins!), It certainly does not sit well with me that to "make" a J36 or K2 would cost as much to build from a 3D print when I am doing for myself the work which others have done on the Brit. Or the weathered Class 24 I bought at the same time.
Have fun. That's what our hobby is about.
Colin
Quote from: Chris Morris on January 06, 2023, 04:40:24 PM
If anyone is interested Footplate models of Kidderminster have a secondhand Dukedog for sale - £93. I spotted it in a cabinet today. I told the owner it was now a collectors item so he might put the price up!
Well they did have,doesn't look like it's been used.
Thank you for posting your message!
I just need the find a Dean goods and the Collett 2251.
Perhaps sadder than the end for Union Mills there is a whole bunch of CJM stuff on ebay if anyone wants...
Quote from: Dickydcc on January 14, 2023, 08:43:26 PM
Perhaps sadder than the end for Union Mills there is a whole bunch of CJM stuff on ebay if anyone wants...
Chris' son Matt is clearing out lots of modelling bits and pieces - decals, etches etc.
Qu. Has Colin finished altogether or will he supply spares and assemblies like a tender drive/chassis?
Quote from: Greygreaser on January 16, 2023, 10:04:21 PM
Qu. Has Colin finished altogether or will he supply spares and assemblies like a tender drive/chassis?
It is my understanding that he was looking to retire, and at 78 who can blame him.
From what I have read the speed with which word got round and he sold his remaining stock was unexpected, and he does have some sorting out to do but I don't think there are any plans to make/source anything new. So, it will just be a case of what he finds as he winds things down. I think the question of tender-drives has been asked already by someone on this Forum and he has said he doesn't have any left.
Roy