Classes 41 and 53

[D1042 Western Princess]

There are two noticeable gaps in the early diesel fleet, the D600 (Class 41) Warships and the (Class 53) 'Falcon'. In conversation with another member this evening we were wondering if there would be any demand for these gaps to be filled?

Although the Warships would appeal mainly to the Western Region modeller Falcon was used extensively on both the Midland and Eastern Regions prior to finishing its days on the Western.

These classes are the biggest noticeable gap in the 'first generation' diesel fleet, are (or soon will be) available in other scales, and it seems N is being treated as the 'poor relation' here.

The question is would you buy either, or both, of these types were they available?

Essentially this poll is for interest only.

[railsquid]

For those of us (like me) who are a bit fuzzy with their Warships and thought "but GF did one not so long ago, and there's also the Minitrix one!?", the Class 41 was a prototype series of 5 locos which look similar to the Class 22 (Wikipedia).

[JasonBz]

I'd have a D600 for sure

[Griffo]

Falcon would be a zenith for me. I was lucky enough to be offered a ride in the cab from Cardiff General (looped into platform 1 with a freight) to Severn Tunnel Junction in 1972 by a wonderful driver who appreciated that trainspotters were not just an inconvenience. One of the highlights of my youth!

[msr]

Do you mean ready-to-run and painted to a high standard, equivalent to the latest releases from Dapol and Bachmann-Farish?

Otherwise, as kits, these two are already available: the BHE brass kit of Falcon, the Worsley Works brass scratch aid of the early Warships, the resin body kits from Britannia Pacific and Its N Gauge/Heritage N, the latter recently relaunched by the new owner (scot-mrc) on eBay and I think can offer these painted too, or at least did so when first launched. The early Warships were also produced by Its N Gauge and now available through scot-mrc on eBay

A bigger gap in my mind are the SR prototypes 10201, 10202 and 10203. Etched Pixels launched a brass scratch aid a few years ago but it needs quite a degree of skill to build and paint it.

The LMS Twins would be another worthwhile additon, as would the gas turbines (18000, 18100 and GT3).

However, I doubt that the market would be sufficiently large to support any of these in ready-to-run form. On the other hand, a Peak to the latest specifications with room for DCC sound would be another matter altogether, with all the options (Classes 44, 45, 46, with/without headcodes, split or centred!

[D1042 Western Princess]

Falcon would be a zenith for me. I was lucky enough to be offered a ride in the cab from Cardiff General (looped into platform 1 with a freight) to Severn Tunnel Junction in 1972 by a wonderful driver who appreciated that trainspotters were not just an inconvenience. One of the highlights of my youth!

Many railwaymen welcome genuine enthusiasts since we know they can be an enormous help to us.
They 'spot' things full time staff are too busy to notice, particularly these days, such as 'security threats' (bags left unattended for example) or people where people shouldn't be (like walking across tracks).
Most staff welcome the 'extra help' but sadly too many 'enthusiasts' are people who seem to like 'getting in the way' or think staff are keen trainspotters who enjoy a chat about the latest livery or because they are 'spotters' can wander where they like or whatever. It's these people who get genuine enthusiasts a bad name with staff.
Glad you enjoyed the trip.
Falcon came to a poor end for such a good loco.

[D1042 Western Princess]

For those of us (like me) who are a bit fuzzy with their Warships and thought "but GF did one not so long ago, and there's also the Minitrix one!?", the Class 41 was a prototype series of 5 locos which look similar to the Class 22 (Wikipedia).

On a similar point, the Class 53. Unfortunately I forget that not all here are of the 'trainspotting' ilk and to many these are just numbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_53

Sorry,
Greg.

[ScottyStitch]

I think Falcon would be the best bet as it has more geographical flexibility, the downside being you couldn't technically run more than one (unless you went down the "what if" route). This would therefore impact total sales presumably. 

There's no denying, however,  the 41 was a handsome machine!

[D1042 Western Princess]

Do you mean ready-to-run and painted to a high standard, equivalent to the latest releases from Dapol and Bachmann-Farish?

However, I doubt that the market would be sufficiently large to support any of these in ready-to-run form.

Yes, both locos produced to the latest standards as r-t-r models.

As to the question of sales KMRC (with which I have no connection other than as a customer) have already confirmed that they would consider an N Gauge D600 IF the sales of their OO version are good enough AND there is sufficient demand for a model in N.
The object of this poll is to get a rough idea of what that demand might be.

[NeMo]

Do you mean ready-to-run and painted to a high standard, equivalent to the latest releases from Dapol and Bachmann-Farish?

Yes, I think that's exactly what D1042 is asking about.

Otherwise, as kits, these two are already available: the BHE brass kit of Falcon,

Oddly enough, their website seems to have vanished. So BH Enterprises might not be an accessible source of kits any longer.

the Worsley Works brass scratch aid of the early Warships,

Agreed, but these take a lot of work on the part of the modeller. Definitely not suitable for beginners! There's a nice article about this kit on the WW website though.

the resin body kits from Britannia Pacific and Its N Gauge/Heritage N, the latter recently relaunched by the new owner (scot-mrc) on eBay and I think can offer these painted too, or at least did so when first launched. The early Warships were also produced by Its N Gauge and now available through scot-mrc on eBay

I have the 'Falcon' resin body from scot-mrc and while it's okay, it does suffer from the limitations of the medium. At about £30 it's a cheap and cheerful project to develop some modelling skills with. But never going to get to the standard we see on, say, the current Dapol 'Western'.

The LMS Twins would be another worthwhile additon,

I couldn't agree more. I think 10000 and 10001 would be "Rule 1" options for many, squeezing onto many LMS layouts as well as pre-1968 BR layouts. Apart from running quite a long time (almost 20 years, quite a bit longer than any of the diesel-hydraulics for example) they were also quite widespread in use, working on the SR as well as the LMR. They were also used on a variety of trains including freights, so there's plenty of operating potential.

Nonetheless, 00 versions of 10000 and 10001 don't seem to have been outstanding sellers. Hattons routinely discount their version. So whether there's a market for even these relatively mainstream oddballs is questionable.

As you said earlier, a revised 'Peak' is an obvious gap in the diesel roster, and there's a whole slew of AC electrics that could be done as well. I'd like a Class 81 or 85 for a start, and the Farish 87 and 90 are both long overdue refurbishment. And this is before we start talking about all the important classes of DMUs and EMUs that could be done!

Cheers, NeMo

[D1042 Western Princess]

Agreed, but these take a lot of work on the part of the modeller. Definitely n Apart from running quite a long time (almost 20 years, quite a bit longer than any of the diesel-hydraulics for example)

As you said earlier, a revised 'Peak' is an obvious gap in the diesel roster,

Cheers, NeMo

Except the Class 14s which have had an interesting life including working on the Channel Tunnel trains when it was being built and similar examples.

As to the Peaks yes, I agree that the current models are looking a bit 'basic' by modern standards but they are available r-t-r which the Class 41/53 aren't.

Best wishes,
Greg.

[d-a-n]

The only precedent of N gauge prototype diesels is the original Deltic DP1 which only ran in one livery for a short amount of time over a very limited area. Although Falcon ran for longer over a wider area with a greater variety of trains, to my eye, it doesn't have the radical looks of DP1 to set it aside from other diesels - in fact, I reckon the Minitrix 47's 'face' bears more than a passing resemblance to Falcon! The 41 is an interesting one, it looks like the the lovechild of a class 31 and a class 22 and would be a great model for someone who models the Western Region and already has all there is to offer in Hydraulic flavours, however, it isn't as 'wow' as the DP1 model and so would worry about it's saleability. Maybe a better class 41 to model would be the HST prototype/class 252 in a boxed set in the same vein as the Blue Pullman...its bought as a one-off train. But there's me getting into my favorite wish list territory again - I'll stop before I start!!
Unfortunately, as has been stated previously, there are many more ubiquitous prototypes (diesel, electric and steam) which would generate more cash and interest from a greater number of regions modeled over a longer space of time.

[Karhedron]

As to the question of sales KMRC (with which I have no connection other than as a customer) have already confirmed that they would consider an N Gauge D600 IF the sales of their OO version are good enough AND there is sufficient demand for a model in N.
The object of this poll is to get a rough idea of what that demand might be.

I would definitely be up for a D600, even if it would make my kit-built one sad.  :'(

[Newportnobby]

Needless to say I have voted for both
I'd be interested to hear what chassis has been used to create the class 41 as, being an A1A-A1A it is 5ft longer than the class 42.
Also, Falcon was a tad over 5ft longer than a class 47.

[railsquid]

For those of us (like me) who are a bit fuzzy with their Warships and thought "but GF did one not so long ago, and there's also the Minitrix one!?", the Class 41 was a prototype series of 5 locos which look similar to the Class 22 (Wikipedia).

On a similar point, the Class 53. Unfortunately I forget that not all here are of the 'trainspotting' ilk and to many these are just numbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_53

Hang on, are you accusing me of not being of the trainspotting ilk?! There's some BRUTES at Birmingham New Street who would beg to differ. Tragically they only served to seat my posterior in the post-TOPS era, which means those funny D-number only machines are a bit before my time so to speak.