I am liking the new Dapol MJA twins but was wondering where they were used. My railway plan is for ECML around Newark so a decent excuse for either the Freightliner or GB Railfreight versions would be great.
i have seen them on the crewe - stockport - sheffield - leeds scrap / metal trains, used to carry gypsum products , Rylstone to Small Heath basically skipton area to birmingham, the odd coal but mainly ore aggregates, limestone from tunstead
hope helps
i have been thinking of getting a set of these as they look very nice and the price is quite good but have any members got any yet ,ie what the couplings like as i have the network rail wagons again very nice but the couplings are awful never stay together so if they are the same type of in the same style then i might give them a miss.
a friend of mine looked into them and noticed Twin wagon set complete with coupling complete with bar in a shop at £37 plus nem pockets and self centering couplings. think im not purchasing
Quote from: crewearpley40 on August 02, 2018, 07:00:08 PM
a friend of mine looked into them and noticed Twin wagon set complete with coupling complete with bar in a shop at £37 plus nem pockets and self centering couplings. think im not purchasing
Most discount retailers have them at £32.26 for a pair of bogie wagons - £16 a wagon seems OK to me for a completely newly tooled wagon set. Or is it the close coupling and NEM pockets that put you off?
my friend was telling me about them and i moved home so am starting to set up again and pardon the pun, take stock of whats what, what needed, what not but first just taking stock down my local model club layout whilst sorting home !!!!
as far as the couplings etc go not really sure - still taking my time !!!
Hi cutting42,
In answer to your original query I know the MJAs were used for a while to take stone in to Hitchin, so they've certainly been used on the southern ECML, though I am not sure where the stone came from!
If you do a flickr search you might find out more from the photo captions. I think the flow was around 2009-2014.
Cheers
Ben A.
could the stone trains have originated from the peak forest area in conjunction with buidling of the cambridge line flyovers ? or simply been heading towards / from london area ?
Hi crewearpley40,
Yes, here is a shot I found of the train at Chesterfield:
https://flic.kr/p/S7Nbdv
Routed via Chesterfield I suspect would join the ECML just north of Peterborough, so probably wouldn't go through Newark, but you could always have the excuse of a diversion.
This pic dates from 2007 (amazingly over a decade ago!) so I was slightly out with my dates guesstimate.
Cheers
Ben A.
Hi again crewearpley40,
A further Flickr search yielded this shot of MJAs passing Newark on a flow to Goole:
https://flic.kr/p/bU8C1k
So fill your boots!
Cheers
Ben A.
im not sure if this would originate from the peak forest , travel via hope valley, sheffield avoiding lines dore junction, chesterfield, erweash / toton to the north west of nottingham and avoid there, bypass retford on to the wcml
at a guess
a long way round.but the more direct route :
peterborough - melton mowbray - syston - loughborough, trent junction, toton, langley mill, chesterfield , dore and the hope valley
maybe trains heading to london to build part of underground / part of crossrail. unsure again, but modelling potential
There were frequently rakes of them at the terminal near Wembley, which tallies with something Crossrail or LUL related. Presumably removing spoil and/or taking aggregates in.
They do look good, I seem to be delaying the inevitable by not having ordering any! I've not seen any first hand reports of them, and like others I'm a bit twitchy with people saying the couplings on the IOA are poor.
Found a retailer selling them for £25 a set on eBay yesterday, unsurprisingly they've all gone, just as I went to order 8 pairs, dammit!
:D Got the last four pairs of GBRf from there last night, to supplement my three pairs from Hattons the day before.
Damn you! Shouldn't have dithered!
Wow, wish I'd seen them for £25.
I've bought a few sets, I'm a bit wary of the couplings as they seem similar in design to the IOAs but have yet to run a rake to see. There seems to be a hefty spring attached to them which might stop them pulling forward and locking in long rakes.
There aren't any dummy knuckle couplings provided, just standard Rapido's. There are two fixed bars provided to couple the paired wagons and these hold the wagons apart at 9mm which matches the distance between coupled sets of 9mm using the Rapidos. Looking at pictures of real rakes the distance between paired wagons and coupled sets seems to be equal, so the effect will look prototypical.
I usually try to close couple wagons with the dummy knuckles, so may need to either shorten the bars or just replace them with more dummy knuckles. If I get a chance this weekend I'll report back how I get on.
Cheers, Mark.
Hi again,
If you aren't sure of the Freightliner you could always go with the GBRf versions...
https://flic.kr/p/YrCY3B
Cheers
Ben A.
other flow routes :
croft ( leicester ) via melton, peterborough , cambridge line and mountsorrel - luton plus willesden holding sidings to doncaster
maybe of use
You are all stars, many thanks, plenty of examples. I run both GBRF and Freightliner so will see what is out there, clearly 8 pairs needed.
good luck, any questions we are all here to help with knowledge
I've had a lot of trouble getting a rake to stay together, couplers coming undone completely randomly and a wheel set with a chunk of metal on the tyre. I'll get them sorted, but not too impressed so far!
Pete @ EGLM
hi pete
what you describe is what happens to my network rail wagons from them , they now reside in a siding while i decide what to do with them , i wanted to get a set of these new wagons but i wanted to see them first and yes they do look very nice but i wont go through the coupling situation again , if only farish would do spares i am thinking of swapping the bogies over for a farish version which might solve the problem , this is really annoying as i have a friend who has said the same and i warned him about the couplings, why dapol
nobby
Hi Nobby, I was running my Network Rail JNAs on a friends layout at the DEMU Exhibition (Stapleforth St Stephen) and a visitor asked me, how I'd got them to run, because he'd had problems as you describe. I hadn't had any problems with them- but I'd loaded them with ballast when I got them, so I can only think it's the extra weight that stops the couplings flicking on bends. I'll try some temporary ballast in the MJAs and report further.
Is it not the IOAs that have issues, rather than the JNAs? I've found my JNAs fine too, but have heard of lots of problems with IOAs.
the JNAs seem ok the IOAs are terrible ,so much so i have put them in a siding really dont know what to do , my thoughts are to see if i could get some farish bogies and cut of the dapol couplings all together as the ones off the coal hoppers seem simliar but i shall see , i dont mind a bargain but when its like this i would rather pay more for a better product to be honest
For the ones that are uncoupling, is it the centre bar that comes apart or the Rapido couplers?
Ok, just tested mine out. It's the rapido couplers. Swapped the dapol couplers for farish and they seem okay. Some of the wheels come out of the bogie very easily and my dapol 66 won't pull them, they keep uncoupling even on farish couplers. Not impressed dapol.
Answering the OP, they have been used on the Great Western mainline bringing Gypsum to Portbury Docks GBRF and taking stone eastwards in a Freightliner flow.
The GBRF ones were originally Freight Liner wagons, some just had the Freightliner painted out, others had the panel with Freightliner on removed but still green and some were just plain blue.
Geoff
For the OP I can report that one of my favourite real railway websites has photos of empty Freightliner MJAs at Taunton in 2005.
Possibly used to top up the virtual quarry at Fairwater Yard?
Quote from: Paulwhitt20 on August 07, 2018, 07:58:31 PM
For the ones that are uncoupling, is it the centre bar that comes apart or the Rapido couplers?
Ok, just tested mine out. It's the rapido couplers. Swapped the dapol couplers for farish and they seem okay. Some of the wheels come out of the bogie very easily and my dapol 66 won't pull them, they keep uncoupling even on farish couplers. Not impressed dapol.
Given this and other comments I was wary when mine arrived yesterday, so thought this afternoon I would give them a try before taking them to the club this evening. Lo and behold, occasionally I could do a full circuit without a random uncoupling. I think I will have to resort to some blue tac in the couplings.
I had not had any trouble with either the JNA's or IOA's so was rather hopeful these would be ok. :censored:
On some other wagons i had trouble with I replaced the rapido couplings with the "buck eye" couplings Dapol used to supply with all their wagons and this solved the problem. However Dapol stopped supplying them so cant do that here. I can only guess it is a dastadly plot to make us buy the magnetic couplings they sell.
The wagons themselves look really good and the rake of 8 pairs make good sight, if only they would stay coupled.
A level track, presumably? It does seem to be a problem.
Just wondering if added weight could solve it?
the layout is a folded figure 8 with gradients of approx. 1 in 50 at the max, however the uncoupling always happens on the flat and always on a bend. tried adding a bit of weight to the last wagon, but it didn't make any difference. next step is to try all wagons with weight in to see how that works.
Shame they're not providing the dummy knuckle couplers any more, they were good. Should have enough of a stock as you used to get 4 with each item of rolling stock though!
Presumably the issue is couplers drooping until the chamfers 'let go' as it were? Be interesting to see if adding weight helps.
Quote from: Bealman on August 09, 2018, 07:51:17 AM
A level track, presumably? It does seem to be a problem.
Just wondering if added weight could solve it?
I think adding weight might make things worse, as the couplings come under tension, they pivot upwards from what I can see.
That was my thought. Borne out by it being wagons at the front that are coming undone. I find the same with my Megafrets actually, but not nearly as badly as seems to be the case with the IOAs (and now MJAs).
Just a thought! :thumbsup:
Well we have success, yesterday afternoon I went through all the Dapol boxes to find the dummy knuckle couplers and found enough to fit to the rake of MJA's. These have now run round the layout for almost 2hrs in both directions without a hiccup. I left the end couplers of the rake as Rapido so I can couple any loco in the fleet.
For anyone else considering this, the short dummy knuckle couplers are too short and the wagons lock buffers on corners so you have to use the longer ones.
Hope this helps for anyone else having the same issue.
cheers
Graham
I use one of each of the long and short dummy knuckles per wagon, which has always worked for me. Saves ending up with a pile of one type too.
Hi,
I've finally managed to give my MJAs a run out at the club, so this is a bit of a mini review from my perspective.
Out of the Box
Packaging is nice and simple, with the wagons sat nicely in a plastic tray which also has a protective top which just lifts off. The wagons have some protective wrapping and the accessory bag is underneath the tray in the box. Accessories are limited to the inter wagon drawbars (x2 but the same length, it would have been nice to have some options here) and brake pipes (x4). For me it would have been nice to see some Dapol dummy knuckles that have been supplied with most other releases.
The wagons themselves look very impressive and are very well detailed. The liveries both Freightliner and GB Railfreight have been very well applied (to me anyway) and the printing for the Tops panels and other markings is excellent.
Bogies are screwed to the chassis and the couplings are similar to those found on the IOA but appear to have been tweaked slightly. There is a very positive spring attached to them and they require a good push to move them from centre. Fitting the drawbars or couplings doesn't fill you with fear, when you push the drawbar or coupling into the NEM pocket the mechanism gives a little, then clicks home without any dramas. I will probably leave the pairs coupled by the drawbars and it seems safe enough to handle them this way.
After joining the pairs, I decided to just rail them on a small section of track and this is where I hit the first snags. A few of the pairs I had wouldn't rail because the wheelsets weren't fitted correctly and rather than sitting in the bogies, were pushed up towards the chassis. It was easy enough to get the pinpoints back in the bogie sides, but the wheelsets kept popping out when I ran the wagons down a PECO railer onto the track, so in the end I had to bend the bogie sides in on a couple of wagons to get them sorted.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/660-110818184041-680611927.jpeg)
I also ran the wagons backwards and forwards by hand just to see how freely they rolled. Again the first few pairs seemed fine, but then I started to encounter some problems with the wheelsets, something I think a poster above has mentioned. When the wagons are run up and down the track, there are noticeable clicks as the wheelsets turn. Putting a little pressure on the wagons (above the bogies) and moving them forward and back showed an awful lot of the wagons had this issue. I would say around 20-30% had the problem to some extent and some are so bad they can be seen inducing a wobble on the video.
Running
While putting the wagons on the layout, I noticed a few issues with the coupling heights and found one Freightliner set with a pronounced droop, which seemed to get a bit better when I removed the coupling and re-inserted it, but was still a bit droopy. I normally fit the Dapol dummy knuckles to my wagons and the shorter shanks do seem to improve this allot, so when I get around to this I expect that it won't really be an issue.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/660-110818184042-680631406.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/660-110818184039-680501827.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/660-110818184040-68050267.jpeg)
One thing to note, when you look at a prototype rake of these wagons, there is the same distance between the wagon pairs as there seems to be between the pairs themselves. It seemed to me that the visual distance between the pairs was pretty even, but when I swap out the Rapido couplers this will look more pronounced so I think I will definitely have to shorten or replace the drawbars.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/660-110818184041-68061167.jpeg)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/660-110818184040-680601698.jpeg)
Within a few laps of the club layout, I'd managed to swap wagons around until I got them in a state where they would run pretty reliably. They seem to roll pretty well and a Farish 70 had no problems pulling 10 sets round the layout. Remember this is with the damaged wheelsets, so if I can get them replaced then I imagine these wagons would run very well. I had a few doubts about the drawbars with the wagons being quite light and wondered if they would negotiate curves / point work OK without derailing, but at the moment I'd have to say they seem to work fine.
Video
https://youtu.be/4_MSdxpZfOQ (https://youtu.be/4_MSdxpZfOQ)
Conclusion
Certainly no complaints over the looks of the wagons, they look fantastic. The couplings are a tweak of those on the IOAs, but they do appear to work allot better and I think with a bit of fettling you should be able to get sets running well together without too much trouble. The catching wheelsets though are a big issue as they visibly affect the running. The catching wheelsets are annoying, but the fix is pretty simple and detailed in a further post below.
Cheers, Mark.
forgot one other slight issue I had was with the pipework under the wagon, in some cases it was catching on the wheelset axel, in all the cases I found a slight push of the pipe put it back into the wagon frame.
Quote from: Graham on August 12, 2018, 12:36:05 AM
forgot one other slight issue I had was with the pipework under the wagon, in some cases it was catching on the wheelset axel, in all the cases I found a slight push of the pipe put it back into the wagon frame.
Massive thank you to @Graham (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1058), his post identifies it's the brake pipe catching on the wheelsets rather than a machining error (post above amended) and it's such a quick fix to put right with some long nose pliers.
This picture highlights the issue, if you look at the brake pipes running towards the bogies, you can see the one on the left sits higher off the chassis than the one on the right. This makes the pipe rub against the wheelset as it rotates and because the axles seem to have a bit of moulding flash in the centre, it can catch making the wagon wobble.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/660-120818152644-680782328.jpeg)
All you have to do to adjust the pipe, is gently push it down with some long nose pliers. Here are some closeups:
Before: (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/660-120818152645-680812459.jpeg)
After: (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/660-120818152643-680641292.jpeg)
I've also included some video to show the affect on the wagon before and after the adjustment.
https://youtu.be/tn8Ohn2WMxo (https://youtu.be/tn8Ohn2WMxo)
For anybody wanting to know what the wagon looks like dis-assembled here's a few picture
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/660-120818152644-680791362.jpeg)
I was expecting to see a spring attached to the couplers, but there just seems to be a bit of flexible wire, the red circles show a pip on the coupler arm which locates behind the wire and this centres the coupling. The green circles show how the upper side of the arm sits flush with the bottom of the wagon top. There isn't much to go wrong here, so if a coupling is droopy, then it might just be a simple case that the underside of the wagon hasn't been screwed down enough, or something is misaligned inside. Either way, they are easy enough to get into and investigate.
Cheers, Mark.
Quote from: Vonzack on August 12, 2018, 03:56:46 PM
I was expecting to see a spring attached to the couplers, but there just seems to be a bit of flexible wire, the red circles show a pip on the coupler arm which locates behind the wire and this centres the coupling.
Cheers, Mark.
If the little spring wire goes missing, a convenient replacement is that thin plastic thread which holds price labels on to new clothes. Had to do this on my Farish Postal coach which had a missing wire.
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18126.msg181867#msg181867 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18126.msg181867#msg181867)
thanks @Vonzack (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=660) for the tip re the screws, have checked mine and a couple were loose.
Have also tried @njee20 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1147) tip re the long and short knuckle couplers and to be honest whilst they look good, it makes the bar between the wagons look way too long, so have returned to long knuckle couplers on both ends of the wagon pair.
Have run them for another hour today with no issues. they are a lovely looking model.
That's a shame - and exactly what Vonzack feared would happen. Shame they've not provided shorter drawbars, like they do with the IKA/FEA pairs. I guess it all helps keep the cost down, which they've done a great job of.
At the moment, I've swapped the drawbars for a combination of long / short knuckles so the gaps match. I usually store wagons in foam trays, so it's a bit better for me to have them like that.
I've recently bought some looky, likey IHA bogie hooded steel carriers from German company Modelbahn Union. These have been running round my layout for the last half hour or so- not a single uncoupling or derailment so far....
They're made by Dapol, or at least come in boxes with Dapol branding. It begs the question, are there different standards for models they make for third parties? They feel generally more solid too. Price is €23 each.
Pete @ EGLM
I've got a dozen of those myself Pete (@ EGLM). They are indeed manufactured by Dapol, and I have to agree with you they are far better than anything Dapol have released under their own marque.
My three pairs of GBRF MJAs arrived
Only one wagon had the problem with the brake pipe catching the wheel axle, sorted as explained in this thread (really, we should not have to be doing this if Dapol QC was better)
The couplers are a little out of line but no problem so far with random uncoupling
These are very nice wagons and great value for money
I have to report that following a session of fettling a dodgy wheel set, locating axles in their axleboxes properly and inserting the ends of the brake pipes properly, my MJAs are running nicely.
I shouldn't have to do that, oh and just to be safe i've Put the spare bar couplers between the buffered ends.
Pete @ EGLMquote author=Pete @ EGLM link=topic=42104.msg522588#msg522588 date=1534271803]
I've recently bought some looky, likey IHA bogie hooded steel carriers from German company Modelbahn Union. These have been running round my layout for the last half hour or so- not a single uncoupling or derailment so far....
They're made by Dapol, or at least come in boxes with Dapol branding. It begs the question, are there different standards for models they make for third parties? They feel generally more solid too. Price is €23 each.
Pete @ EGLM
[/quote]