Water for a beginner

Uplander · August 07, 2022, 03:28:34 PM

I am interested in adding some water to my layout but having not tackled this before I am hoping for some guidance. I am going to keep it simple - probably just a pond and a ditch, so no moving water.

I have searched the forum but cannot find anything that seems to answer my query / need. I am hoping for advice on a self-levelling product that is currently available but wherein somebody can comment on how good it is (say) 12 months after use.

Thanks for any help.

crewearpley40 · August 07, 2022, 03:46:52 PM

Woodland scenics do good products. I've model rail magazines with articles on water modelling. Chris

port perran · August 07, 2022, 03:49:50 PM

I use yacht varnish applied in layers (often 11 or 12) over a gravel (fine ballast) base.
You can add green scatter material over, say, the fourth or fifth layer of varnish to give a weed effect.

You can also apply acrylic paints to add colour as desired.

crewearpley40 · August 07, 2022, 03:59:38 PM

In addition to martin's comments shades of brown , green, greys on towpath and yes i use yacht varnish.see
https://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/category/Water but Martins suggestion will work

Uplander · August 07, 2022, 04:04:09 PM

Thanks both for the posts. I have seen videos about Woodland Scenics Realistic Water, Envirotex-Lite, Magic Water amongst others. One person will say one is great, another will say the contrary. That's why I thought real experience from somebody with no vested interest would be invaluable.

If I ever managed anything vaguely approaching your image port perran I would be more than happy. I have never used yacht varnish though I am familiar with ordinary wood varnish. Will any brand be good would you say? Do you brush it on or pour? I can imagine it might be pouring with assistance from a brush? Does it stand the test of time?

Thanks again.

Simon D. · August 07, 2022, 04:25:11 PM

See the embedded video on this page: https://modelrailwayengineer.com/model-water-railway/

Toilet paper!

if you are happy to shell out a few quid, Kathy Millatt's newish book, Building Realistic Model Railroad Scenery, is definitely worth a look. It has a lot of excellent content as you might expect. Aimed at Americans but just as good for the UK.

dannyboy · August 07, 2022, 04:42:48 PM

I realise that this is probably not what you are aiming for, but if you only want small areas of water, PVA dries clear and is ideal for puddles and the like. On my very first layout, I used it to make water for a garden pond. Pour a smallish amount into 'the hole', allow to dry thoroughly and repeat as often as necessary. When I did the garden pond, I painted very small blobs of orange on the first layer of PVA - instant goldfish.

Papyrus · August 07, 2022, 04:46:24 PM

Another vote here for yacht varnish. If you're modelling still water it is perfect. You will need 4 or 5 coats - the more you apply, the darker it will look. If you want, you can add green streaks and blobs before the final coat to represent water weed. This is the result on my (unfinished) layout.

Cheers,

Chris

Uplander · August 07, 2022, 04:54:59 PM

It's too hot to be outdoors (my excuse that seemed acceptable) so I thought I'd do an NGF post and loads of ideas!

I thought the toilet paper video was brill but I think toilet paper might be better for an area of more open water?

So I am thinking PVA or yacht varnish right now.

On PVA people say be careful of ones that dry yellow. Is there one that anyone would recommend?

On yacht glue. Will any brand be ok? Do you brush it on or pour? Does it stand the test of time?

dannyboy · August 07, 2022, 04:59:32 PM

I have never had any PVA glue dry yellow, although yellow PVA glue can be obtained. The following link may be of some use -

https://sawsonskates.com/what-is-pva-glue/

Addit: A lot of the PVA glue I have used in the past has been bought from 'The Works', who sell all sorts of stuff that can be useful for modelling.

Uplander · August 07, 2022, 05:09:29 PM

Thanks dannyboy - that's really useful.

On the link I note it says "to bond, PVA glues must penetrate the surface, so they are ideal for working with porous materials" - so I guess I could lay down a base of plaster onto my ply, paint it, then add the glue?

Thanks again.

ntpntpntp · August 07, 2022, 05:14:50 PM

I used many layers of yacht varnish for my harbour, back in 1995. It's over a cm thick to cope with setting the tug in the water. It worked well except that I got impatient and some later layers were poured on a bit too thick, with the result that it's actually not set underneath the skin even after 27 years!

Looking a little dusty in this shot.

This pond is a commercial product bought at an exhibition from DOW scenics, it's a solid surface (probably perspex) painted a suitable algae green underneath. It was less than £10, complete with reeds and flowers around the edge. It just needed blending into the scene with plants around the edge.

https://www.debrisofwar.com/finished-scenery.html

Papyrus · August 07, 2022, 05:26:19 PM

Quote from: Uplander on August 07, 2022, 04:54:59 PM

On yacht glue. Will any brand be ok? Do you brush it on or pour? Does it stand the test of time?

I've used Rustins, but almost any decent brand should do. Ronseal do it as well. Apply it like paint - several coats, sanding down each before applying the next one. As for standing the test of time, if it can protect yachts spending months on the oggin, it should be good for a few years on a model railway!

Cheers,

Chris

dannyboy · August 07, 2022, 05:34:28 PM

@Uplander
If I remember correctly, when I did the pond I just painted a bit of the baseboard blue, built a wall, (printed card?), to the shape required and added a bit of PVA. One thing to remember is make sure the PVA can not 'escape'. I think I just glued, (PVA of course), the wall to the baseboard and, once dried, started 'filling' the pond. Once the first layer is down, the PVA does not really have to bond to anything, (except itself), so it just dries.

Uplander · August 07, 2022, 05:50:13 PM

Fair point on test of time Chris, I suppose I was thinking about cracking or whatever. I guess ntpntpntp's experience over 27 years answers that one too.

Quote from: dannyboy on August 07, 2022, 05:34:28 PM
@Uplander
If I remember correctly, when I did the pond I just painted a bit of the baseboard blue, built a wall, (printed card?), to the shape required and added a bit of PVA. One thing to remember is make sure the PVA can not 'escape'. I think I just glued, (PVA of course), the wall to the baseboard and, once dried, started 'filling' the pond. Once the first layer is down, the PVA does not really have to bond to anything, (except itself), so it just dries.

Great stuff dannyboy, I think for this toe in the water I am feeling drawn towards PVA or I have two ponds and do one of each!

Thanks for the help all.