Heard a rumour

[red_death]

The Brighton Belle is most definitely on the way (next few months IIRC).

Cheers, Mike

[MKP]

I'd be very happy to see Hornby enter the market as they have such a good network of dealers who could start selling.

They do, but they could have sold the Brighton Belle through dealers and instead decided to pull it from the retailers and sell it directly via themselves, so would you be looking at Hornby N gauge only available direct from them? Not really expanding the hobby to people who might not stubble across hornby.com

[Les1952]

Before we all get too excited I suggest that a little reading might be worthwhile.

I know there is an aversion amongst a significant number on this forum to looking on RMWeb, but may I suggest a look on the Hornby section in that place might be revealing.

One will find there that the negative comments about Dapol (amongst others) by N-gaugers pale into insgnificance when placed against some of the things OO modellers say in their rants about Hornby management.....

All the very best
Les
(who reads them with a degree of amusement having no personal axe to grind regarding ANY manufacturer)

[d-a-n]

I'd be very happy to see Hornby enter the market as they have such a good network of dealers who could start selling.

They do, but they could have sold the Brighton Belle through dealers and instead decided to pull it from the retailers and sell it directly via themselves, so would you be looking at Hornby N gauge only available direct from them? Not really expanding the hobby to people who might not stubble across hornby.com

As this Brighton Belle is an experiment in the N gauge marketplace, I would've thought that selling direct would keep their costs down and allows an element of market research to take place surrounding this new foray. If they were to roll out a range, I strongly suspect it would be sold throughout the dealer network.

[Adam1701D]

Hornby certainly has been taking some flack recently for the variable quality of some of their more recent steamers - the B1 was superb but the 72xx tanks and Duke of Gloucester were both criticised for poor quality and finish, with a lot of dislike for the moulded handrails and smokebox darts, etc.

If Hornby are reading this, the same level of integral moulding would be fine on an N Gauge 72xx or DoG and I'm sure no-one here would complain! 

[Les1952]

They've also been taking a lot of stick at Hornby for poor internal design- square axleboxes with round axles, non-concentric wheels and other things we moan about on this forum.

However, I've a pair of Arnold railcars now on Furtwangen Ost.  They are superb in every way.  I also have the railcar that is BEMO made in N-scale.  Considering BEMO's reputation as the Rolls-Royce of narrow-gauge the comparison between the two makes, at least in my experience, is quite remarkable.

My Arnold railcars are the Bentley to the BEMO's Trabant.   

Bodes well for the Brighton Belle when it finally arrives.....

Chyanging topic- I know there are still 61 (of 78) A3s I haven't yet got in model form, but given that Dapol haven't yet sold the 2500 or so of all "normal" varieties they produced is there really enough of a market for another one? 

Likewise the A4, where I reckon there are about 3600-4000 about with a good few still unsold....

All the very best
Les

[Dr Al]

If Hornby are reading this, the same level of integral moulding would be fine on an N Gauge 72xx or DoG and I'm sure no-one here would complain! 

Is that true? Given that we are now used to separate handrails in N also, I think that it would be an equally retrograde step in N as in OO....

Cheers,
Alan

[Stevie DC]

Is that true? Given that we are now used to separate handrails in N also, I think that it would be an equally retrograde step in N as in OO....

Cheers,
Alan

Yes, this was all part of Hornby's 'design clever' philosophy - Actually, I think that this would best be a good idea, poorly executed and even more poorly marketed. It's no wonder Hornby seem to be moving away from this concept again now (compare the new Claud Hamilton and J15 against, the yet to be released, P2 in Hornby's OO range).

I agree that separately fitted handrails are a must in both modern OO and N, as are coupling hooks and vac pipes (amongst other items). However, how many of the other separately fitted components that drive the cost of a model upwards could actually (with some 'clever' design work) be integrally moulded on the body? Things like lubricators are typically separate components nowadays but do they really need to be? 

[EtchedPixels]

A lot of the very small separate components are that way to share the mouldings and also to make it easier to mould without. Remember you've got to get a model out of the mould and the more undercuts and other magic involved the more horrible it gets.

Bachmann at least seem to be using pick and place assembly for some of their parts combined with small mouldings. If you look at the interior and underframe of their voyager its a lot of pick and placed parts on both sides. At least I assume its a pick and place machine not a line of very depressed Chinese people.

What actually costs for much of this is the number of humans in the assembly line. Robots don't get paid, don't go on strike (too often), don't need the loo and don't all disappear in the holidays and never return.

ie you can have all the etched handrails you like providing a machine fits them, or you mould around them.

It's really going through the same thing electronics went through. We went from

Rooms full of people in the UK with soldering irons
Rooms full of people in China with soldering irons

and the electronics of the time is designed to minimise component count

then it was automated and component count and complexity didn't matter much for production any more, it went in the pick and place machine and in the flow soldering machine and humans didn't do much of the work. Which is why things like the Raspberry Pi are made in South Wales not China.

We are now at the point of component count mattering again but that's because electronic components are now so cheap that the board size and external components actually impact the price. A serial port connector costs more than some microcontrollers!


I wouldn't be surprised to see Hornby/Arnold do a UK steam model. If they want to sell it to fit their Arnold line of famous trains of the world then I'd expect them to pick a UK named train pack or packs based on a train that will sell world wide

So IMHO:
- Coronation Scot
- Flying Scotsman
- Silver Jubilee
- Cornish Riviera

kind of trains. And when you get down to it there are not many of them known that way to the masses and especially outside of the UK.

Sadly I don't think a Dean single and clerestory set version is likely to be what they would pick even if they picked GWR. LMS streamlined railcar ? alas probably not.

Personally I'd guess more at the Silver Jubilee because 2015 is it's 80th Anniversary and the 80th anniversary of the world speed record, while the Scot is a couple of years later so can be done in 2017   


Silver Jubilee sets record railway speed 1935


Alan

[Karhedron]

It's very interesting, at least for recently-tooled items, Dapol's modelled what's in the Hornby's range, even down to the exact types of Maunsell carriages they first brought out in OO in 2008.

I very much doubt it's a formal tie-up, it's just what Dapol spotted as gaps in the market and was able to release them sooner.

I am inclined to agree, I don't think there is any link at present between Dapol and Hornby. The thing to remember is that both compete against Bachmann who tend to release the same range in 00 and N gauge (although not always).

Basically this means that any model Hornby has done in 00 is a lot less likely to be released by Farish in N gauge which makes it attractive to Dapol. I would guess they want to avoid further duplications like the B1. Also, if it sells well in 00, that bodes well for N gauge sales.

One will find there that the negative comments about Dapol (amongst others) by N-gaugers pale into insgnificance when placed against some of the things OO modellers say in their rants about Hornby management.....

Agreed, Hornby's QC and PR is not really any better than Dapol's. Also, the big box shifters report that the rates of returns for N are about the same as those for 00.

I think that if Hornby does make a fully-fledged entry the N gauge market, it would definitely be a good thing for us. However I will await something more concrete before I get my hopes up beyond the Brighton Belle.

[Chetcombe]

I'd be very happy to see Hornby enter the market as they have such a good network of dealers who could start selling.

They do, but they could have sold the Brighton Belle through dealers and instead decided to pull it from the retailers and sell it directly via themselves, so would you be looking at Hornby N gauge only available direct from them? Not really expanding the hobby to people who might not stubble across hornby.com

As this Brighton Belle is an experiment in the N gauge marketplace, I would've thought that selling direct would keep their costs down and allows an element of market research to take place surrounding this new foray. If they were to roll out a range, I strongly suspect it would be sold throughout the dealer network.

My guess is that Hornby are selling direct to try and maximize their margin on this model - no need to have to provide additional margin for the retailer by doing it this way. The motivation is probably to minimize the number of units they need to sell to break even, thereby reducing the risk of the project in what is a relatively unknown market segment for Hornby.

[MikeDunn]

Possibly ... and part may also be this way they see directly how popular (or not) the model is, without having to rely on retailers saying how many they've sold or have left in stock ...

If they sell out (which, be honest, they do to retailers a fair bit) they'll have a much better piece of MI than having to use 2nd-hand (and unreliable) data ...

[woodbury22uk]

NEXT question... so are we gettin' a Brighton Belle or not?

Some decorated versions here in this album.

http://www.facebook.com/Arnold.Modelleisenbahnen/photos/pb.645450062149620.-2207520000.1409132087./775852192442739/?type=3&theater

[talisman56]

NEXT question... so are we gettin' a Brighton Belle or not?

Some decorated versions here in this album.

http://www.facebook.com/Arnold.Modelleisenbahnen/photos/pb.645450062149620.-2207520000.1409132087./775852192442739/?type=3&theater

...and it's really looking the dog's dangly bits. Also looks like the solebar cutaways that were present on the early EPs have been removed...

[EtchedPixels]

My guess is that Hornby are selling direct to try and maximize their margin on this model

According to Hornby they had existing contractual relationships which forced them to sell it this way in the UK (and via dealers outside of it). I assume its because it's technically an 'Arnold' product.

Alan