BR Diesels - North Cornwall

Started by Chris in Prague, September 11, 2013, 07:50:41 PM

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Chris in Prague

Port Perran looks a very fine layout. Congratulations. One minor point: the small D22XX diesel shunter is a Class 04; more commonly found on the SR (Exmouth Junction had three in the early 1960s) whilst Class 03s were used on the WR. Two were shedded at St. Blazey in the 1960s.

port perran

Apologies - Schoolboy error !!  Many Thanks for pointing that out. I shall amend the website.
I do run locos that aren't strictly accurate for my period/area so shall put up with the SR interloper!
I'll get round to fixing it drekkly me 'ansome.

Chris in Prague

It's the pedant in me, I'm afraid. I grew up on the (G)WR and remember the green Class 03s well but the only Class 04 I saw was at Stratford (East London).

I'm planning a layout based on the ex-SR North Cornwall lines after the WR takeover in 1963 (so in in the same time period as you) so that I can run WR steam and diesel locos plus a Bulleid Pacific on the Atlantic Coast Express and some BR Standards. I'm assuming that the total closure of the ex-SR Withered Arm did not happen as suddenly or as completely under a far more enlightened management with local council support. (A scenario like the BR Manager who was sent to close down the Settle & Carlisle line but actually helped to save it.)

spurno

Hi Chris and first of all welcome.You obviously have some knowledge of GWR shunters,would you happen to know which shunters operated at Southall in the early sixties?.
Born beside the mighty GWR.


Regards

alan

Chris in Prague

Thank you for the welcome, Alan. Alas, in the move from the U.K. over 20 years ago, I had to leave my old model railway and nearly all my books behind. However, thanks to the Internet, a lot of information is now available if you know where to look plus I buy a lot of secondhand books from Amazon UK. To answer your specific question, you could try searching here: http://www.brdatabase.info/classes.php?type=D&subtype=Shunters

I presume that Southall shunters were sub-shedded from Old Oak Common?

Alas, I cannot be more helpful.

port perran

I like the sound of your idea for a Withered Arm layout and look forward to seeing developments.
I have a longer term idea to add an extension to Port Perran which would be a very fictitious link from Newquay to Padstow allowing SR and Standard locos/stock access to Newquay and hence on to Port Perran.
This would, of course, allow me to run some SR/BR locos.
I'll get round to fixing it drekkly me 'ansome.

Chris in Prague

That sounds an excellent idea. My (planned) layout is based on a modified version of Padstow but with some features from Halwill Junction, Bude, and Ilfracombe so all protypical for the area. As I won't be moving for at least 10 years I have plenty of time for planning, learning, and buying stock!

The thought of having to learn all about DCC and wiring is rather daunting!

Although a (G)WR man at heart I've always loved the atmosphere of the ex-LSWR 'Withered Arm' and (G)WR locos like 45XX and 57XX panniers, not to mention the 136X small panniers all ran in the area, together with a nice selection of BR Standards. I think I can stretch beyond Class 22s (which certainly ran) to Warships (which ran to Ilfracombe) and, maybe Hymeks which weren't exactly common in the far South West. (I'm not really interested in SR T9s or Ns, hence choosing 1963-67)  I wonder if Westerns had the Route Availability? Plymouth Laira certainly had an allocation. Alas Class 14s (to my knowledge) never ran in the South West. A pity as I still remember cabbing an almost grandnew D9501 after it had already been withdrawn and stored!

To the best of my knowledge, Class 03s were only based at St. Blazey and Class 04s at Exmouth Junction and I don't believe Class 08s ever ran on the 'Withered Arm'? Still, I'm going to have an 03 and maybe a 04 (both SR allocated)!

I also want a green Class 122 railcar (they certainly ran). However, I'm not sure whether the WR used Class 121s on the ex-SR lines? Green two and three-car Class 117s ran and, on specials Class 120s and, much later, even Metro-Cammells. I read that Ilfracombe had 'facilities' for railcars but they were based at Plymouth and Newton Abbot.

port perran

Not sure about the 08s.
I thought they did run at least up to Wadebridge at the very end of the Bodmin to Wadebridge line, so they may well have made it to Padstow.
I'll see if I can find any photos. However, I may be wrong !!
I'll get round to fixing it drekkly me 'ansome.

Chris in Prague

My mistake. Yes, of course, the Class 08s ran on the Wenford Bridge line after (I presume) the Class 03s proved unsuitable, to the end. (The Class 03s having replaced the ex-GWR 136X panniers which replaced the Beattie tanks so, So, Class 08s are definitely protypical on china clay hoods, at least.

EtchedPixels

08s were tried at Wadebridge but couldn't handle the quay. The 03 could handle the quay but wasn't good on the clay. The 08s were used extensively though for the clay traffic and were the largest locomotive permitted on the line to Wenford until its closure. They 03 I believe went away when the quay was lifted.

I don't believe either the Warships or Hymeks had the RA to traverse the North Cornwall. The class 22s were RA4 and were the only 'real' diesel locomotives allowed on several lightly laid routes at the time including both Roskear and the West Crofty - the axle load of small steam locos is generally lower than diesels, so while RA4 for a real diesel loco as extraordinarily low it was only comparable with many smaller steam locos.

W55001, W55014 and W55026 are known to have worked the line, and W55026 is the only class 121 I know of photos of on the route. The AC cars railbus also got to Wadebridge - possibly for servicing ?

Branches did get upgraded though. Hard to imagine the North Cornwall getting the treatment but Wadebridge to Padstow just maybe (to cater for the secret nuclear submarine base.. at least thats why my Wadebridge has bigger locos and nuke flasks  :D )


"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Chris in Prague

Thank you very much Etched Pixels for that very informative post. Class 03 D2129 was shedded at St. Blazey from October 1961 to March 1965 (when Wadebridge Wharf closed?) and was joined by classmate D2183 in 1962 and, again, in 1964 (when D2129 was receiving mechanical attention?).

I didn't think either the Warships or the Hymeks had a low enough RA. (I'm sure Westerns did not and, probably, couldn't handle the curves?).

I haven't been able to discover the number(s) of the AC Cars railbus used on the shuttle service. Ay information would be greatfully recieved. Also any information about modelling one in 'N'.

Presumably Wadebridge serviced the Class 03s and 08s, (including fuelling them?) so it must have had some kind of diesel service facilities which the railbus could have used. But I've not seen any details let alone photos. Again, any info. would be gratefully received. The DMUs were serviced at, at least, Ilfracombe, but, again, I have no details. Sending diesel stock to Plymouth, Newton Abbot, or St Blazey would have involved a lot of non-revenue earning travel. Exmouth Junction shed had three Class 04s 1n 1961-2 so, presumably, also had diesel servicing facilities?

For my model, I'm assuming that the Wadebridge to Padstow line survived (including passenger services) under a more enlightened management (like the Settle & Carlisle line when it was proposed for closure) supported by local councils with both SR and WR services. Did Warships and Hymeks have the same RA? If so, I will presume that the line was upgraded to cater for them on through trains from the WR and SR beyond. (I like your idea of the secret submarine base justifying the line's survival and upgrading!)

The Ilfracombe line, from the Withered Arm video, had concrete-sleepered track near Ilfracombe (even when the tracks were still double), I presume CWR?

port perran

Just out of interest, D2177 (Class 03) was used on the lifting train on the final days at Padstow in March 68. (It was based at Laira).
I'll get round to fixing it drekkly me 'ansome.

Chris in Prague

Thank you, Port Perran, for that info. For my planned model I'm assuming that the North Cornwall lines did not close but survived under a BR - local government partnership.

Chris in Prague

Etched Pixels, are there any photos of your Wadebridge layout that I could see, please.

EtchedPixels

Quote from: Chris in Prague on September 12, 2013, 08:07:48 AM
I didn't think either the Warships or the Hymeks had a low enough RA. (I'm sure Westerns did not and, probably, couldn't handle the curves?).

The Warships were RA7 when introduced and really intended to replace the King and Castle class locos on the mainline routes notably Paddington-Birmingham and Paddington-Penzance. The westerns likewise were RA7. The Hymeks were RA6 but rare in the south west.

Quote
I haven't been able to discover the number(s) of the AC Cars railbus used on the shuttle service. Ay information would be greatfully recieved. Also any information about modelling one in 'N'.

I've got a photo of one on the Bodmin runs somewhere and will take a look. It's on my 3D print list but I've not had time to do it yet.

Quote
Presumably Wadebridge serviced the Class 03s and 08s, (including fuelling them?) so it must have had some kind of diesel service facilities which the railbus could have used. But I've not seen any details let alone photos. Again, any info. would be gratefully received. The DMUs were serviced at, at least, Ilfracombe, but, again, I have no details. Sending diesel stock to Plymouth, Newton Abbot, or St Blazey would have involved a lot of non-revenue earning travel. Exmouth Junction shed had three Class 04s 1n 1961-2 so, presumably, also had diesel servicing facilities?

No idea on Exmouth. Wadebridge had quite basic facilities for what it did even in steam days and much of that was quite literally falling down by the mid 1960s. A lot of minor service/repair work just needs an oil can and a big enough spanner though.

Quote
For my model, I'm assuming that the Wadebridge to Padstow line survived (including passenger services) under a more enlightened management (like the Settle & Carlisle line when it was proposed for closure) supported by local councils with both SR and WR services. Did Warships and Hymeks have the same RA? If so, I will presume that the line was upgraded to cater for them on through trains from the WR and SR beyond. (I like your idea of the secret submarine base justifying the line's survival and upgrading!)

Ditto, although my working assumption is that only the Bodmin General-Wadebridge route got improved.

Quote
The Ilfracombe line, from the Withered Arm video, had concrete-sleepered track near Ilfracombe (even when the tracks were still double), I presume CWR?

Don't know. Wadebridge itself didn't get concrete sleepered track even at the end.

Alan
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

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