Hornby/Arnold enter British N Gauge market

[Karhedron]

Now the N gauge market is the only section of the Hobby that has continued expanding during the recession and I can logically see Hornby wanting to see if they can get a slice of that cake.

Interesting statement. As one who regularly 'pimps' the forum and our gauge, have you facts to back that up please?
I could certainly use them

I read it recently but I cannot remember where. It might have been one of the big retailers like Rails or Hattons. The statement was to the effect that the Hobby overall was static but that N gauge was a growing segment of it.

[EtchedPixels]

I've heard the same in various forms from multiple vendors. Although Dave's interview in BRM seems to imply the N market is saturated and slowing down too as the country continues to go down the pan.

Alan

[Karhedron]

However DapolDave on RMWeb recently commented on the poor sales of the Class 86 and the poor sales of 3rd rail EMUs, which suggests to me that the Class 92 and the Pendolino are likely to remain firmly on the back burner in the near term not least because of the possibility of Hornby dusting off their 00 models to shrink to N if the Brighton Belle venture succeeds.

Yes, the 86s do seem to have been slow sellers. Even the ltd editions in BR blue hung around for about 18 months (much to the chagrain of the shop who commisioned them).

I am not so sure about the 3rd rail stuff. BachFar followed the 4-CEP with the Desiro and I have not seen them in the bargain basements yet. They have been marked down a bit by some retailers but only by the amount you would normally expect for models that have been out a year or so.

I don't model electrics but I would be sad to see electric modelling consigned to the back burner for another 5 years. The trouble is that I cannot see what needs to be done to encourage it. Dapol released the 86, Mk3 coaches and DVT and RTP catenary. Farish released the Desiro. There is plenty of other stock to go with them (87s, 90s, Mk2 coaches etc) which are adequate (even if not up to modern standards). Plus there are contemporary DMUs includinng several flavours of Sprinter which often run alongside these units under the wires.

What is "critical mass" for OHEL modelling? We have express and suburban trains plus some suitable infrastructure. What do potential electric modellers feel is missing that would tip them over into building an electric layout? Is this a chicken-and-egg scenario? Do modellers not feel electrics are sufficiently well supported for them to take the plunge? Converseley, how can manufacturers commit to the subject if previous efforts do not sell?

I am rather hoping that Dapol's new class 33 is followed by REP/TC units as these can work off the juice and allow a good stepping stone into SR electric modelling. The same could be said of DEMUs but so far there is no sign of Bachy's Thumper going through the shrink ray.

[H]

However DapolDave on RMWeb recently commented on the poor sales of the Class 86 and the poor sales of 3rd rail EMUs,

I'm not so sure how Dapol would know exactly about sales of third rail EMUs as they have never produced one. The nearest they got is probably the class 73 but that is an electro-diesel locomotive and they saturated the market with a huge number of them - at least 8,000 in the first couple of years - which is significantly higher than production and supply of other models these days.

It would also be a shame if they effectively shut the door on all electrics (overhead and conductor rail) as it's without doubt the future of the real railways. And the Japanese and continental markets don't seem to find it a problem to produce and sell OHLE stock. Plus in OO there seems to be quite a surge of interest in modelling the Southern electric scene and both Bachmann and Hornby are wacking out 3rd rail models (EPBs, CIGs, VEPs, BELs, MLVs, BILs, etc.).

H.

[red_death]

Yes, the 86s do seem to have been slow sellers. Even the ltd editions in BR blue hung around for about 18 months (much to the chagrain of the shop who commisioned them).

I don't model electrics but I would be sad to see electric modelling consigned to the back burner for another 5 years. The trouble is that I cannot see what needs to be done to encourage it. Dapol released the 86, Mk3 coaches and DVT and RTP catenary. Farish released the Desiro. There is plenty of other stock to go with them (87s, 90s, Mk2 coaches etc) which are adequate (even if not up to modern standards). Plus there are contemporary DMUs includinng several flavours of Sprinter which often run alongside these units under the wires.

What is "critical mass" for OHEL modelling? We have express and suburban trains plus some suitable infrastructure. What do potential electric modellers feel is missing that would tip them over into building an electric layout? Is this a chicken-and-egg scenario? Do modellers not feel electrics are sufficiently well supported for them to take the plunge? Converseley, how can manufacturers commit to the subject if previous efforts do not sell?

I am still surprised that the 86 has sold so poorly, though I do wonder about some of the livery choices. NSE and EWS rather than blue and/or some variant of intercity/exec? If something like the 67 can sell so well then it seems very odd that an 86 (or a 92) wouldn't.

I have longer term plans to build an OHLE layout. The missing link for me is still really units - there is nothing really EMU-wise for running with 86/97/90, a 321 would be useful. The Desiro is fantastic but then you really need a Pendolino.

Cheers, Mike

[Pengi]

Anyone got any more information on the Arnold Brighton Belle?

Needless to say I did not get any response to my earlier email to Hornby international about it. I also recall emailing them a couple of years ago suggesting there might be an opportunity in the UK N gauge market for a certain express EMU and didn't get a reply to that either.

[Karhedron]

Even an indication of the price of BB would be nice.

[woodbury22uk]

Even an indication of the price of BB would be nice.

Spot-on Matt. Just over 3 weeks to the dealer order deadline and still no indication of price. It will be interesting to hear the explanation of Hornby International/Arnold if the venture founders for lack of orders. Or will they go ahead and produce 200 at £1000 each to satisfy the pan-European demand? One thing is certain. This is not a reliable way to test of the market for N gauge UK outline products from Hornby.

Mike

[daveg]

Lack of price info made me decide to cancel my pre-order.

Anyway, if it's to be anything like the suggested £1K Mike suggests that, to me, is totally bonkers and way beyond what I would or can pay!

Dave G

[woodbury22uk]

Lack of price info made me decide to cancel my pre-order.

Anyway, if it's to be anything like the suggested £1K Mike suggests that, to me, is totally bonkers and way beyond what I would or can pay!

Dave G

My £1000 is just a shot at how much they might need to charge for a 5 car set if they make a really small run of say 100 of each.

Since I posted earlier I have read the comments of Hornby International in the March Hornby Magazine:-  "Hornby International's Marketing Manager Nikolaus Mohr told Hornby Magazine "The "Brighton Belle" is thought to be just the starting point for a larger commitment in the British 'N' scale market with high-quality items. We are very curious to see how the "Brighton Belle" will be received among the British 'N' scale enthusiasts"".
We shall see. 

Mike

[Richard G Dallimore]

I may be missing the point of that quote but how can you judge the pre sales of something if you don't tell anyone what the price will be. No info no sales no n gauge range, all very odd.

[Ollie3440]

This is the info I have heard:

There is no guarantee that these will be produced. The idea behind the 'order' date is to see if there is enough demand. If there is then they will be made, if not then the project is binned.

I can see the point of view in regard to price but why not order now (to help ensure they get produced) and then, if they are out of budget, cancel after a price has been announced?

Ollie

[tim-pelican]

I can see the point of view in regard to price but why not order now (to help ensure they get produced) and then, if they are out of budget, cancel after a price has been announced?

Isn't this going to leave the dealers a bit stitched up, if we're doing it en masse?

[H]

There is no guarantee that these will be produced. The idea behind the 'order' date is to see if there is enough demand. If there is then they will be made, if not then the project is binned.

I can see the point of view in regard to price but why not order now (to help ensure they get produced) and then, if they are out of budget, cancel after a price has been announced?

It's rather odd - they say that that production is dependant on demand but they don't take orders from the public but from the dealers/retailers. Even if you went in to a shop and demanded or ordered one (if it is possible as no-one is likely to leave a deposit not knowing the price) there is no guarantee that the shop will place an order with Hornby - they might wait until they are available or not even bother if it means commitment when customers might cancel.

H.

[moogle]

  I is beginning to wonder if Hornby are dangling the old N gauge carrot again?