Reversing

[PeteW]

First question... Of all the track plans I've mucked about with in SCARM - and indeed, all the track plans I've seen online - it looks as though the locomotives spend most or all of their time running backwards (simple loop excepted). Yet, I've (almost) never seen trains that seem to be operating this way in photos and videos of model layouts. Is this just a pictorial convention?

As far as I can see, there appear to be four possible configurations for a train:
1. Loco leading, pulling (the obvious one).
2. Loco leading, pushing in reverse (guessing this is bad because of greatly-impaired visibility).
3. Loco trailing, pulling.
4. Loco trailing, pushing.

Or is there something clever you can do with a shunter and sidings that lets the main loco get to the front again? 

And if someone can recommend a good resource for model rail operating I'd appreciate it. I've Googled variations on 'realistic operating' and 'operation' and just get lots of stuff about waybills and schedules that don't help.

[njee20]

Why would it? Do you mean layouts with a terminus station? If so you either run DMUs, or something that can run reversibly, or you have to run round the loco, or put another one on the front. You'd virtually never push an entire train.

[Sprintex]

2. Loco leading, pushing in reverse (guessing this is bad because of greatly-impaired visibility).
3. Loco trailing, pulling.

These two "scenarios" don't make any sense

How can a loco be leading if it's pushing? By definition if it's pushing that means it's at the rear of the train, so it's trailing.

Likewise a loco cannot be "trailing" (ie, at the back) if it's pulling? If it's pulling then it's at the front!


Paul

[PLD]

And if someone can recommend a good resource for model rail operating I'd appreciate it. I've Googled variations on 'realistic operating' and 'operation' and just get lots of stuff about waybills and schedules that don't help.

As I think from that statement you have realised, you really need to do some serious basic research. Best advise is seek out some video of operations from your era and watch what happens. Look out for something like the Cine-rail, B&R, or Marsden ranges at model railway shows or trawl through You-Tube online...

[daffy]

Hi Pete, like you I am a newcomer to the fundamentals of operating, so I understand what you are asking, though I am surprised you find little on the Internet that answers your queries.

For shunting operations on layouts you could try this website, whose opening page gives this statement:

The aim and purpose of this website is to illustrate and explain how different model railway shunting puzzles work and how best to build and operate them - no matter if you are a complete newcomer or a seasoned railway modeller.

http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/

I have not looked at the site in great detail yet but it could give some if not all of the answers you seek.

[keithfre]

You might want to have a look at this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Model-Railway-Operation-Accordance-Prototype/dp/1852604212/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1486497538&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=cyril+freezer+railway+operation

[dannyboy]

2. Loco leading, pushing in reverse (guessing this is bad because of greatly-impaired visibility).
3. Loco trailing, pulling.

These two "scenarios" don't make any sense

How can a loco be leading if it's pushing? By definition if it's pushing that means it's at the rear of the train, so it's trailing.

Likewise a loco cannot be "trailing" (ie, at the back) if it's pulling? If it's pulling then it's at the front!


Paul

My interpretation of what Pete is saying is that he is talking about the way the engine is facing. If the engine is pulling, but going in reverse, it is "trailing" and if it is pushing from the rear, but going in a forward direction, it is "leading".  Of course, I could have got this all back to front, (see what I did there?  ). Maybe Pete can confirm please?
@PeteW

[Sprintex]

2. Loco leading, pushing in reverse (guessing this is bad because of greatly-impaired visibility).
3. Loco trailing, pulling.

These two "scenarios" don't make any sense

How can a loco be leading if it's pushing? By definition if it's pushing that means it's at the rear of the train, so it's trailing.

Likewise a loco cannot be "trailing" (ie, at the back) if it's pulling? If it's pulling then it's at the front!


Paul

My interpretation of what Pete is saying is that he is talking about the way the engine is facing. If the engine is pulling, but going in reverse, it is "trailing" and if it is pushing from the rear, but going in a forward direction, it is "leading".  Of course, I could have got this all back to front, (see what I did there?  ). Maybe Pete can confirm please?
@PeteW

Still makes no sense.

A leading loco can only be at the front of the train, and a trailing loco can only be at the rear of the train. And how do you know which way round it is if it's a diesel? 


Paul

[dannyboy]

@PeteW

Pete - 

[Claude Dreyfus]

First question... Of all the track plans I've mucked about with in SCARM - and indeed, all the track plans I've seen online - it looks as though the locomotives spend most or all of their time running backwards (simple loop excepted). Yet, I've (almost) never seen trains that seem to be operating this way in photos and videos of model layouts. Is this just a pictorial convention?

I am going to make a couple of assumptions here, so do correct me if I have misunderstood.

I suspect you could mean locomotive running in reverse - i.e. bunker first for a tank or tender first. On small branch lines, where there is a lack of turntable, the slip would be 50/50. However, a loco running in reverse doesn't make as pretty a picture - and certainly in the days steam was in service, many photographers did not waste valuable exposures on these. Certainly locos running 'backwards' on mainline were less common - and very rare on express services. Simply, there are less surviving photos of locos running this way.

As far as I can see, there appear to be four possible configurations for a train:
1. Loco leading, pulling (the obvious one).
2. Loco leading, pushing in reverse (guessing this is bad because of greatly-impaired visibility).
3. Loco trailing, pulling.
4. Loco trailing, pushing.

1. Self explanatory
2. locomotives did propel carriages and wagons; almost always for shunting. Speeds would be slow, and there would always be a lookout.
3. A loco trailing, but providing power will be pushing
4. Self explanatory - push pull

You also have the less usual combination of a loco between two carriages - certainly the GWR did this with a pair of railmotor carriages.

There is also the loco at either end of a train - more common in more recent rationalised times where run-round loops are scarce, but certainly happened in steam times.

Or is there something clever you can do with a shunter and sidings that lets the main loco get to the front again? 

And if someone can recommend a good resource for model rail operating I'd appreciate it. I've Googled variations on 'realistic operating' and 'operation' and just get lots of stuff about waybills and schedules that don't help.

Depends on the era and region. The GWR tended to bring a train in, get a shunter to attached to the rear or the train, drag the carriages and set them back into the adjacent platform. Then the train loco is released, runs back to a turntable, is turned and sets back onto the back (now front) of the carriages. In the meantime the shunter has been removed!

More common is that a train comes in, and another train engine is set on the rear of the train to take it back out again. This continued right up to recent years...I spent a very happy couple of hours at the end of a platform at Paddington matching class 47s toing and froing.

[TheEdge]

A leading loco can only be at the front of the train, and a trailing loco can only be at the rear of the train. And how do you know which way round it is if it's a diesel? 

Paul

Double cab locomotives have a number 1 end (front) and a number 2 end which declares which way round they are.

[mr bachmann]

just run it like Liverpool Street , loco watered ready on station spur , next train come in , loco uncouple , fresh loco off spur onto train , then depart = now uncoupled loco goes to station spur and waters up . at that incoming train enters station and  repeats operation . 1950's rush hour commuter traffic 4-7 min's turn round. also it was fun to watch the N7's race the electric stock up the bank often reaching Bethnal Gr before them .

[TheEdge]

I think that was much more common in only the very big stations with easy access to a shed and ready supply of locos. Dropping a new loco on the other end is much quicker than running round and needs less space within the station.

[Jimbo]

A leading loco can only be at the front of the train, and a trailing loco can only be at the rear of the train. And how do you know which way round it is if it's a diesel? 

Paul

Double cab locomotives have a number 1 end (front) and a number 2 end which declares which way round they are.

On a 'Crompton' number one end was where the radiators are, of course you only needed to know that for equipment i.d. purposes or fault and failure procedures etc, doesn't matter which way round a diesel is from an operating point of view really, although from what I remember it helped if you were working it from the end where the hotplate was just inside the engine room door so your secondman could put the kettle on! 

[Newportnobby]

In the steam era does anyone think the weather conditions were taken into consideration? For example, if a route always had the wind blowing in a certain direction it may make life easier for a steam loco to run tender/bunker first so smoke was immediately blown off the chimney without travelling down the loco and affecting vision. The number of tunnels on a route may also have affected decisions
N.B. The above does not involve express passenger/parcels traffic.