Kits and modelling fears?

[red_death]

This is a topic that appears to come round reasonably regularly and raised its head on the Farish 2013/14 thread.

There seems to be a reluctance or nervousness among some members to try their hands at building kits, weathering, re-paints or scratch build.

Oft-stated reasons are fear of ruining an expensive model or not having the dexterity to build a kit, but that is not really my point in posting this. 

No one should expect modelling skills to just appear - we all have to practice and learn.  Even with practice we will all be better at some things than others, but there is a great satisfaction in viewing one's own work.

Many of the NGS kits are designed to be easy to put together and could be put together by anyone who could make an Airfix kit.  If the etched details are too fragile - leave them off!

Re-painting and weathering can be practiced very cheaply on spare loco or coach bodies.  There is a wealth of information out there on painting and weathering.  The best tip I can give is find a photo of the loco you wish to weather and try to copy the weathering you see in the picture.

What I really want to know is how can we all help and encourage you to take the next step in modelling?

Cheers, Mike

[scotsoft]

Well said Mike, a very good post full of encouragement.

I have made a few attempts at weathering and the results were absolute rubbish but as I used weathering powders I am able to wash off the rubbish ready for the next attempt with hopefully less rubbish 

cheers John.

[508111]

Re-painting and weathering can be practiced very cheaply on spare loco or coach bodies.  There is a wealth of information out there on painting and weathering.  The best tip I can give is find a photo of the loco you wish to weather and try to copy the weathering you see in the picture.

Well said, and practice makes perfect. The cheaper the better, for beginners, at least. Though in the other scale, I've found that after reintroducing myself to the hobby, doing a few Airfix kits was good practice. In particular, the kits which come with a paintbrush and some acrylics. Painting most of the parts before assembly has helped to fine-tune my brush hand, once again. Of course, there's also the decals which need to be fixed, which is another skill, also obtained at the same time.

As I was without any tools to begin with, this was a very good way to start, once again, I feel. The only extras which I've had to go looking for, were a craft knife, for sprue cutting, a cheap set of needle files, and some cocktail sticks, to use for stirring paint.

[Gnep]

I've found the Peco wagon kits a really easy introduction to painting my own... I had quite a few that I made up when I was young but never dared to paint - a few quid on some Tamiya acrylics and an old fine brush and I'm really pleased with the results. I've now got some mucky coloured pastels to dust on and varnish to practice a bit of weathering... nothing to be afraid of really but as for spare coach bodies and the like, I don't have the luxury of a huge spares box...

One day I might get around to posting some pictures of my rather amateur work I also like making up liveries for Peco wagons - I have a brake van to a livery specced by my wife in green and cream with a lovely red stripe... just an excuse to practice doing strips with masking tape really - although useful to remember my grandfather teaching me how to paint the horizon on a landscape - you have multiple times to get it right - coming down from the sky, coming up from the landscape, first coat, second coat, etc - so don't worry if you get it wrong first time around!

On a slightly related note, I'm a cheapskate, and not at all particular about accuracy to prototype - so for me kits should be a way of cheaply building up rolling stock... but have yet to find a source of "10 random wagons that are really cheap," even from the NGS. Any ideas?

G

[EtchedPixels]

I thnk the Peco kits are as cheap as it gets without going to Peco chassis and make your own card bodies - which can be fun in itself for wagons.

Alan

[Gnep]

I thnk the Peco kits are as cheap as it gets without going to Peco chassis and make your own card bodies - which can be fun in itself for wagons.

Alan

Funnily enough card bodies on Peco chassis (what's the plural?) was where I was thinking of going next - I can print stuff at work easily enough so could even do lettering and lining easily to stick on, cutting out gaps where appropriate. Any suggestions for shaping a wagon/small carraige roof from card? Stick to loo roll sections or use formers inside?

Now... where's the best source for the Peco chassis in bulk? NGS?

[H]

On a slightly related note, I'm a cheapskate, and not at all particular about accuracy to prototype - so for me kits should be a way of cheaply building up rolling stock... but have yet to find a source of "10 random wagons that are really cheap," even from the NGS. Any ideas?

Just buy a selelction of old, worn and damaged wagons from the rummage boxes that many second-hand traders have at exhibitions. Then put the undamaged bodies on undamagesd chassis, add details, change the wheels for decent ones, strip off the old paint and re-paint. Plenty of practice and fun to be had.

Also the NGS wagon kits are cheaper to buy in bulk at say ten at a time. And the manufacturers often sell off end of line or damaged stock at knock down prices - for example Dapol do NQP stuff very cheaply and are now doing unpainted wagons.

H.

[edwin_m]

I find it very discouraging when articles in magazines assume you have an airbrush.  In order to use an airbrush you also need a compressor, spray booth, fume extraction, masks both for the model and for your face*, and enough space to store and use them.  All this sounds like a lot of cost and hassle not to mention the potential for it to go wrong if you get the wrong mix, forget to clean it, etc etc.  If that is what you need to paint something then thanks all the same, I'll leave it the colour it is. 

I'd be interested in techniques, examples and general encouragement for painting and weathering using a traditional hairy brush (or any other technique that doesn't involve a lot of equipment and hazards).  There seems to be a painting and weathering project in nearly every magazine but I only recall one that was explicitly aimed at non-users of airbrushes.  From the few things I've tried, it's possible to get a reasonable finish at the small size of N gauge and using a decent paint such as Vallejo acrylics. 

*some of these may not actually be necessary but the implication from some quarters seems to be that you need them all.

[red_death]

You can pick up spares pretty cheap at exhibitions (or even through the dreaded E*ay!). As H says s/h stalls can often be a really useful source of practice material or even useful bits and pieces.

Cheers, Mike

[red_death]

I find it very discouraging when articles in magazines assume you have an airbrush.  In order to use an airbrush you also need a compressor, spray booth, fume extraction, masks both for the model and for your face*, and enough space to store and use them.  All this sounds like a lot of cost and hassle not to mention the potential for it to go wrong if you get the wrong mix, forget to clean it, etc etc.  If that is what you need to paint something then thanks all the same, I'll leave it the colour it is. 

I'd be interested in techniques, examples and general encouragement for painting and weathering using a traditional hairy brush (or any other technique that doesn't involve a lot of equipment and hazards).  There seems to be a painting and weathering project in nearly every magazine but I only recall one that was explicitly aimed at non-users of airbrushes.  From the few things I've tried, it's possible to get a reasonable finish at the small size of N gauge and using a decent paint such as Vallejo acrylics. 

On the spray painting thing - try aerosols, particularly non-railway sources (Halfords and Games Workshop are my favourite sources).  But you still need good ventilation as an absolute minimum and a face mask.  Fine particles + solvents aren't fun.

Save up batches of models that can be painted at once to reduce the hassle.

You are right with a decent brush you can get a reasonable finish.

If masking is a problem - look for simpler liveries to start with or tricks that save masking eg using Fox transfers for NSE stripes rather than painting them all.

As with anything cost/hassle vs quality of finish is a personal value judgement we all have to make.

Cheers, Mike

[H]

From the few things I've tried, it's possible to get a reasonable finish at the small size of N gauge and using a decent paint such as Vallejo acrylics. 

I've seen a few articles and tips about using brushes to get a decent finish.

I'd also suggest trying aerosol paints, particularly the Halfords car colours which give a good finish and many of which can be used to replicate railway colours.

Plus recently there have been a number of high quality airbrush packages (such as the Neo procuded by Iwata) produced for very reasonable and comparatively cheap prices these days.

H.

[EtchedPixels]

Last time I checked the cheapest was one of the model shops - but it varies and they are cheap enough the postage and number wanted is a big impact.

I've done various card and paper wagons for fun (and mostly as joke items for special events).

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/79/entry-8225-christmas-time-christmas-coach/

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/79/entry-6552-freebie-paper-gunpowder-van-for-tomorrow/

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/79/entry-6440-making-the-freebie-easier-to-build/

feel free to grab them and experiment - if nothing else it'll give you some of the sizes to work from.

I've not found you need anything beyond decent strength (eg photo paper)  materials for the small wagons.

It's also not too hard to make your own chassis out of plasticard, however once you've made your first axlebox and springs you may find that the thought of making four of them per wagon fills you with the urge to go to the pub instead  (or learn 3D printing, or to make your own cast copies). Does mean you can make them any length and wheelbase you want.

Bogie vehicles are also not too hard - a length of angled material for the floor or a flat piece of plasticard and rods glued along it for strength does the trick. The main thing is making it a rigid structure that won't warp. Lots of bogies available off the shelf which deals with all the couplings and other problems.

Roofs - oh yes (oh pain) but lots of different approaches

Method 1.

Wrap thin plasticard around a tin or bit of thin metal tube or similar a little bit smaller dimension that needed. Fasten plasticard firmly all the way along with something - eg lots of strong tape

Place the entire lot in a bowl, and pour on boiling water - it must be just coming off the boil and no colder

Wait, remove and it'll have taken on the profile you wanted and try to keep it


Method 2.

Put layers of paper over a former and glue them to each other with PVA or similar, taking care not to weld it to the former. Each layer is weak but once glued together the layers can't move against one another so the end result is quite strong.

Method 3.

Bit of thin metal and roll it to shape - harder to get the hang of initially but IMHO by far the easiest once you've mastered it. Real misers do it using old drink cans, but then spend more on taxis to A&E to be stitched back up

Method 4.

If you are the woodworking type then several people make their roofs from wood cut to the profile.

Method 5.

Grab lots of things like old pepsi bottles and cut slices from those about the right arc.


and there are other methods too.

Equally axleboxes/springs, roof profiles and the like can be bought quite cheaply. Peco also sell four packs of their couplers/pockets which can be handy for scratchbuilding.

Alan

[Gnep]

Thanks Alan - as ever fantastic advice... I might just give all or some of those methods a go

[H]

I'd be interested in techniques, examples and general encouragement for painting and weathering using a traditional hairy brush (or any other technique that doesn't involve a lot of equipment and hazards). 

Apparently there's an article in the Spring #181 issue of 'Model Rail'.

Whether it specifically covers N/2mm I don't know, but there doesn't appear to be any other mention of N/2mm for the contents - it's getting very thin on N gauge these days despite Lawrences contact with the editor.

H.

[Adam1701D]

The whole idea behind my Electra conversions is to enable anyone to produce their own model, regardless of skill.

Like a lot of folk here, I grew up building Airfix kits, so a typical NGS wagon holds no fears but I've hardly touched anything brass and never soldered a kit in my life.

Darren Johnson's recent build of a 4-VEP using my vinyls and a host of other 3rd party add-ons just shows how far you can go to create the ultimate model.