short circuits - still

bluedepot · March 07, 2013, 07:46:54 PM

ok, i am forever having to adjust wheel back to backs and / or point blades....

does anyone know why i am having these problems that others don't report?

i have a back to back gauge. this does not of course 'centre' the wheels. i do this by sight. i am constantly adjusting back to backs and point blades. eventually i can solve the problem of a particular loco on particular points and it will run ok for a while. the problem will just reoccur later on though, maybe different points, maybe a wagon, maybe another loco....

any ideas what it is i am doing wrong that others don't do?

since i got back into n gauge short circuits have been my biggest problem by far...

cheers,

tim

Dr Al · March 07, 2013, 07:50:43 PM

Seems a strange issue - I've never had any significant problems with out of gauge wheels or shorting in normal running - in fact problems are so rare that I've never even got to the stage of getting a BTB gauge!

What trackwork are you using?

Cheers,
Alan

Tank · March 07, 2013, 07:56:43 PM

I must agree, I've never had an issue with BTB's either. So, is it the wheels coming off of the track that are causing the shorts?

upnick · March 07, 2013, 08:14:40 PM

Tim is this DC or DCC ?

painbrook · March 08, 2013, 10:18:20 AM

Tim, is it at the same places on your layout?. Cheers john.

Pengi · March 08, 2013, 11:31:12 AM

Just a thought - have you tried running your stock on another layout?

Jerry Howlett · March 08, 2013, 11:35:15 AM

Ringing a bell. Is it always on points? Are you using "live frog" points ? Could be a wiring problem. Just a suggestion.

bluedepot · March 08, 2013, 12:22:39 PM

hi it is dcc. code 80 peco track. electrofrog points. shorts on points. some more than others. pretty sure it is point blades and wheel back to backs to blame. when I adjust the offending rolling stock it fixes it for a while but problem reappears somewhere else or on other rolling stock or points. it's getting me down because always having to adjust points or wheels rather than running the trains. I don't understand why it happens to me though and no one else. I don't get derailments and track laying seems ok to me so its a mystery!

anyway thanks a lot for replies!

Tim

martink · March 08, 2013, 02:00:32 PM

Just a thought - you might want to recheck your wiring to your electrofrog points, and make sure that the frogs get switched to the correct rails. If you've got this wrong somewhere and the point blades aren't perfectly clean (as they never are), then you won't actually get a short until a metal wheel comes along and bridges the gap.

AndyGif · March 08, 2013, 02:10:59 PM

and not to forget checking the isolators on the frog rails....

Dr Al · March 08, 2013, 02:29:34 PM

Have you tried (if possible) running on DC - just in case there is something odd going on with your DCC setup?

Cheers,
Alan

Calnefoxile · March 08, 2013, 02:38:55 PM

Tim,

Here's a thought, whereabouts in the country are you??

If you're close to one of the more knowledgable members on this forum, then maybe they can pop round and help you out physically, rather than virtually as is happening now.

Good Luck

Cheers

Neal.

P.S. Have to agree with others, it's sounding more like an electrical issue than a BTB one.

bluedepot · March 08, 2013, 05:39:02 PM

cheers for the replies!

all points are peco code 80 electrofrog - medium or large radius. the problem occurs on both sizes.

the shorts also sometimes happen on the non motorised points / non wired frogs in the fiddle yard, so i don't think it is the wiring. on the scenic side of the layout the frog's have a power feed and the polarity switches when the points change. i think if this was wired up wrong the system would short circuit as soon as the points changed (this is something that actually did happen when i wired one up wrong before, and easily was fixed by swapping + / - wires).

yes good idea, i will try some dc operation! i don't think it would be too difficult to wire up a dc controller to the bus wires...

i'm in leicester! any member is welcome to come round for tea! if they can fix the problem then i will name the layout after them and build an n gauge statue of them for the mini figures to worship!!! lol

some locos and rolling stock generally don't create short circuits... some points as well are 99% ok, and only very very rarely short.

anyway thanks for all the replies again! love this forum / support group! lol

tim

Jack · March 08, 2013, 09:24:02 PM

The fact that it happens on non-motorised point without polarity switching as well removes the possibility that your point switches are not quite set up correctly which can sometimes cause intermittent shorts because the point isn't throwing correctly and thus switching polarity on the frog properly causing a bridge between the two sides.

I wonder, Do you use terminal blocks for wiring droppers to your bus wire?

A problem I had many moons ago with an intermittent shorting problem was because just one strand from the 7/2.0 wire from just one of the droppers wasn't connected correctly. I'm sure vibration (as in throwing a point or train movements) was making this one small strand just bridge the wrong side occasionally because after I rewired all my terminal blocks the intermittent short was banished!!

It took me ages under the board to trace this and I only found it by physically rewiring all the droppers. I have to be honest it was enough to make me :'( :'(

While I own a BTB gauge, (I got one just in cause), I've not found the need to use it yet.

I hope you find a solution soon because, in some way, I can feel you frustration.