A message to Dapol

Started by MinZaPint, June 04, 2014, 05:59:56 PM

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Buzzard

The rumour mill at the NGS AGM today was churning out theories as to why Dapol didn't show up.

Before anyone asks I'm not going to say what I heard in case (a) I misheard and (b) I don't want to pour more gasoline into an unhappy thread.

Nigel

D1042 Western Princess

Just my opinion but I think Dapol spend too long making "showcase" models and not enough time testing motors.
Superb detail is good just so long as the loco will do no more than be placed into a display cabinet but we here seem to want to run them.
Maybe Dapol could spend a little less time with "pipes" and "bits" and a little more time ensuring mechanical efficiency?
Having said that I must admit that I haven't had many problems myself, but the layout is still building and I haven't done much running, except with GF shunters.
If it's not a Diesel Hydraulic then it's not a real locomotive.

Buzzard

Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on June 07, 2014, 06:04:05 PM
Maybe Dapol could spend a little less time with "pipes" and "bits"

With you on that.

And going further I think they, and Farish, should lose the complexity of lighting in locos and units.  I know some might like to have that but it increases the cost and number of things that can go wrong and at the end of the day how many modellers run their layouts in complete darkness, not many is my guess.

As far as running performance goes I cannot fault their DMUs.

Nigel

Roy L S

#33
Quote from: Buzzard on June 08, 2014, 07:21:04 AM
Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on June 07, 2014, 06:04:05 PM
Maybe Dapol could spend a little less time with "pipes" and "bits"

With you on that.

And going further I think they, and Farish, should lose the complexity of lighting in locos and units.  I know some might like to have that but it increases the cost and number of things that can go wrong and at the end of the day how many modellers run their layouts in complete darkness, not many is my guess.

I don't agree with that at all I'm afraid, there is no way a regression to such basic standards is either necessary or desirable for our hobby. In years gone by British N was very much the "poor relation" in and in many respects it was those kinds of basic standards made it a laughing stock with little credibility as a "serious" modelling scale.

Thanks to the hard work of manufacturers (and indeed some healthy competition) we have models in British N which stand scrutiny with the best. Let's keep it that way.

Regards

Roy




Ben A

Hello all,

Why shouldn't locos have lights?  I don't know about steam era, but for modern/present day operations headlights are very bright and very visible even in daylight.  I agree that tail lights should be switch off-and-on-able but that is simple enough.  Continental, Japanese and US models have lights and are reliable so I see no reason why we should be any different.

As to quality control - it just comes down to price.  The UK market is notoriously price sensitive (how often have we read of people who've spent hours scouring the web just to save a couple of quid?) and better QC adds to the cost in all sorts of ways:  in higher spec parts, spending more time and resources testing and then rejecting *almost good enough* components instead of accepting them and investing more at the design stage to ensure there are fewer opportunities for manufacturing errors.

And I certainly don't want Dapol to go bust - a Dapol Colas 66 was the smoothest running loco all weekend on our club layout Horseley Fields at the recent DEMU showcase (although our Farish 60s were superb too) - and irrespective of loco performances, their intermodal spine wagons, megafrets, telescopic hood steel carriers, Mk3s and Mk3 DVTs, Cargowaggons and Class 153 DMUs are a vital part of the Horseley Fields stock roster!

cheers

Ben A.



tim-pelican

Quote from: Buzzard on June 08, 2014, 07:21:04 AM
And going further I think they, and Farish, should lose the complexity of lighting in locos and units.  I know some might like to have that but it increases the cost and number of things that can go wrong and at the end of the day how many modellers run their layouts in complete darkness, not many is my guess.

I guess we've all got our "care" / "don't care" lists.  I'm not that bothered about "pipes and bits", but I'd like to see *more* complexity of lighting - in particular, independent control of front and rear lights, not just a simple toggle for "front white, rear red" or vice versa.  I guess that's non-trivial with the 2-function restriction of the 6-pin socket though...

I fully agree that models should run reliably, out of the box, without fettling, in 99%+ of cases as a priority over anyone's wish-list of bell and whistles!  In fairness, I've not had any issues yet other than a 3MT bought "refurb" at TINGS, and even that's "a bit jerky from cold" rather than "broken", but there do seem to be plenty of horror stories on here.

Regards,
Tim.

sparky

Since I returned to the hobby in the last 12 months I have bought 10 farish DCC ready diesels/dmu and a dapol western along with blue riband coaches and wagons....I may have been lucky but all have been perfectly fine except an older 47 I got cheap on flea bay that needed some care to get running.....the addition of directional lighting and the great detail of new models is something I am prepared to pay a little extra for and would certainly not like to go back in time.

PaulCheffus

Hi

Next you'll be advocating generic chassis for things like we had twenty years ago. I have no desire to return to those days.

Cheers

Paul
Procrastination - The Thief of Time.

Workbench thread
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=54708.msg724969#msg724969

Roy L S

#38
Quote from: Ben A on June 08, 2014, 11:27:16 AM
Hello all,


And I certainly don't want Dapol to go bust - a Dapol Colas 66 was the smoothest running loco all weekend on our club layout Horseley Fields at the recent DEMU showcase (although our Farish 60s were superb too) - and irrespective of loco performances, their intermodal spine wagons, megafrets, telescopic hood steel carriers, Mk3s and Mk3 DVTs, Cargowaggons and Class 153 DMUs are a vital part of the Horseley Fields stock roster!

cheers

Ben A.

Hi Ben

I would sincerely hope that few if any of our number would want that.

Dave's departure must have created a massive vacuum in the company, his knowledge and expertise would be very hard to replace, there would I suspect be only a very small pool of potential candidates within the industry who could.

Therefore having found new people to deal with product development, however experienced there must be a learning curve and some knowledge-gaps resulting in things like the maroon Western slipping through without a warning panel and Panniers having incorrect cab variants for example. However there seems little (if any) acknowledgement of these errors, or apologies to customers (especially those who have pre-ordered) for making them. Just silence.

For me the icing on the cake was the "no show" of Dapol at the AGM yesterday with no explanation, especially when with the NGS there is such a large base of loyal interested customers (and potential customers) who would welcome the opportunity to talk to them and see their products. Possibly talk about the above issues yes, but much much more of the positive stuff too I would anticipate.

How does that approach reflect customer care? How commercially savvy is it?

Regards

Roy

NeMo

#39
Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on June 07, 2014, 06:04:05 PM
Just my opinion but I think Dapol spend too long making "showcase" models and not enough time testing motors... Maybe Dapol could spend a little less time with "pipes" and "bits" and a little more time ensuring mechanical efficiency?
There's an irony here in that British Railways went through the exact same issue with dieselisation! On the one hand locomotives with lower specifications and greater weight (i.e., old technology) that tended to be more reliable, and on the other hand locomotives that provided more speed and power at lighter weights (i.e., using new technology) but needed a lot more time being maintained and often turned out to be less reliable than hoped.

Indeed, maybe it call comes down to the old "quick, cheap and good -- pick two" triangle. BR had chose quick and cheap -- and ended up with a lot of definitely not good locomotives!

Cheers, NeMo
(Former NGS Journal Editor)

OwL

Quote from: Agrippa on June 06, 2014, 07:43:52 PM
A simple message, not to Dapol, but to customers don't buy
their stuff. they'll go bust in a couple of months.

Hope it does not happen, but with recent no shows to the AGM without no explanation and lack of upkeep on their websites/social media sites pages, surely this is a company on the struggle?

Hope I'm wrong but possible?


Proud New Owner of Old Warren Traction Maintenance Depot Layout.

http://www.c58lg.co.uk/  http://www.c60pg.co.uk/

gc4946

I'd like Dapol to reduce the number of manually soldered connections for lights, resistors, etc. which can be prone to failure.

When cannibalising a non-powered 153 for spares I was surprised about the number of wires to/from the head and tail lights.
It's difficult to attend to the chassis for servicing, if the motor used for the 153 ever failed, because the wires are fixed to the chassis and there are no mini plugs allowing the body and its head/tail lights to be disconnected from the chassis, unlike some of their later production, e.g. HST.

"I believe in positive, timely solutions, not vague, future promises"

Les1952

There is now an apology on Dapol's website from Dapol and David Baverstock (NGS Chairman).

'male chicken' (changed by forum)-up rather than conspiracy!

All the very best
Les

MikeDunn

Doesn't actually say what it was though, does it ?

Zakalwe

awwww :(

i had the popcorn ready for all sorts of forum hilarity, suspicions and conspiracy theories.

must try harder next time Dapol :)
"I just think people overvalue argument because they like to hear themselves talk."

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