I have been extremely disappointed at Dapols lack of communication with their customers and have sent them the following, am I being too hopeful in expecting a reply?
A message to Dapol
I am an avid fan of your N gauge products, Big 4 steam era (GWR SR) is my particular area of interest, at the moment you have several items I am looking forward to, Schools (Maunsell livery if poss) WC BoB, Maunsell coaches and reissue of M7's and 45xx. I feel you have totally lost control of your communications with your customers, your company website is out of date, you have updated some items but not changed the last update info which shows as 12 months old! Do not try to do to much but make sure that what you do is up to date. Your Facebook page is not getting any response from you, I would suggest you issue a monthly newsletter on your own website giving an update on your current projects so that your customers know where they stand. You recently offered a link on RMWeb which it would appear they have had to take down due to lack of response from yourselves. You can not please all the people so do not offer what you cannot give. In my working life KIS (Keep it simple) was drilled into me, Monthly updates on a newsletter would I am sure please us all and make life easier for you.
Just my hopeful twopenneth
David
Sadly I have to agree that the quality of communication these days is poor and certainly there is nothing like the level of interaction we once enjoyed when (Now "DJM") Dave was involved.
The reason given for RMW Web topic being "locked" was said to be to enable responses to the various questions to be collated. Thus far nothing further has been heard, so I do begin to wonder.
It is such a shame, and I think you are right to suggest keeping it simple, however is in this day and age there is an expectation for communications to be frequent (and accurate!).
Regards
Roy
Quote from: Roy L S on June 04, 2014, 07:31:34 PM
The reason given for RMW Web topic being "locked" was said to be to enable responses to the various questions to be collated. Thus far nothing further has been heard, so I do begin to wonder.
It's my belief the 'Ask Dapol' thread was locked entirely down to the lack of responses from Dapol. >:(
Collated, my :moony:
David - I wish you luck in getting a response out of Dapol - I really do.
But I hope you are not holding your breath.
Sadly, this situation seems to be pervading other companies. I have been waiting 4 months for a reply from Heathcote, and mailed Metcalfe 6 days ago with a question to which I have no response (both times using the 'contact' section of their websites).
As a retired Sales Manager, quite frankly I'm appalled at the way these people treat their customers ::)
I was about to suggest contacting them on Facebook, but they stopped replying to members on there on the 14th May.
:hellosign:
I recently enquired about a weathered 9F and recieved an email back after only 30 mins!
However I sent another a few days ago and still no reply?
Although this is bad, I can't moan at dapol as I was given a 100% free A3 when I returned a faulty loco to their stand at TINGS on Sunday last year. :claphappy:
All I can suggest is you tell one at the stand and hope for a discount but remember be kind - you may not want to but there's a chance for a cheap loco?
I hope your email gets answered but now I think I'm in the same boat! :censored: :veryangry:
Joel the MD, used to personally update the facebook site and reply.
I posted about Semaphore Signal failures (see below ) on 25th May and no reply to date.
Looks like no updates from him since 14th May.
N Gauge Signal Failures.
On my exhibition Layout " Vale of Oxbury" the GWR Home signals get admiring comments, even more when working. The layout is fully detailed and signals bedded in to the trackside, Previously I had 2 signals fail , which I put down to bad luck and replaced them, this weekend at Railex another 2 failed which makes it 4/5. What happens is the motor sticks and runs and runs and runs. Its heart breaking to have to rip all the scenery out to replace them , let alone the cost. Thoughts anyone about them? Joel and the Dapol team be interested to see your comments.
You can take it up with Dapol directly on Saturday at the NGS AGM http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18544.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18544.0)
Regards
Neal
Quote from: carlwooduk on June 04, 2014, 09:17:56 PM
N Gauge Signal Failures.
On my exhibition Layout " Vale of Oxbury" the GWR Home signals get admiring comments, even more when working. The layout is fully detailed and signals bedded in to the trackside, Previously I had 2 signals fail , which I put down to bad luck and replaced them, this weekend at Railex another 2 failed which makes it 4/5. What happens is the motor sticks and runs and runs and runs. Its heart breaking to have to rip all the scenery out to replace them , let alone the cost. Thoughts anyone about them? Joel and the Dapol team be interested to see your comments.
Happens with the signals on the 'orribly oversized scale too. Our club OO guys put a load of Dapol semaphores onto the club OO layout and within a couple of hours all of them were u/s...
Quote from: Only Me on June 04, 2014, 09:58:54 PM
I was just about to buy a lot of these for Tormouth, any chance of some pictures of the issues please? Or a more detailed explanation please !
For simple GWR semaphores I much prefer the Tomix ones anyway as they can be switched either direction so DCC control rather better. The home is very GWR like, the distant you have to file a V in the arm and move the stripe as Japan inherited UK practice but before the V was added!
Alan
Totally off topic, but where do you get Tomix signals from, please?
I got mine from Osborn's, although there were a bit cheaper than the current price.
They are beautiful pieces of engineering
Are these the ones?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tomix-5545-Mechanical-Semaphore-Entry-Signal-N-scale-/121293301665?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1c3da4e7a1 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tomix-5545-Mechanical-Semaphore-Entry-Signal-N-scale-/121293301665?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1c3da4e7a1)
Yes
Power them like other Kato and other Tomix stuff. That is <= 12v for the lights and 12v DC directional control for the signal head.
Alan
Funnily enough, Dapol have caught up with their replies on the Facebook page. It seems Joel was away a lot, and he'll get more colleagues to help out on the page. :thumbsup:
Joys of being a small company.
Quote from: Tank on June 05, 2014, 01:48:56 PM
Funnily enough, Dapol have caught up with their replies on the Facebook page. It seems Joel was away a lot, and he'll get more colleagues to help out on the page. :thumbsup:
Just had a look and they're promising a newsletter as well, fingers crossed :thumbsup:
I guess everyone is allowed a holiday. 8)
I wonder if the Q&A thread on RMWeb will get an update too?
Even me, eh Tank? (Said this Antipodean after riding the Festiniog railway on a beautiful day in North Wales) :D
Quote from: Bealman on June 05, 2014, 07:43:00 PM
on a beautiful day in North Wales
Pull the other one
:laughabovepost:
I'm serious! The weather was brill!
George
[smg id=12905 type=preview align=center width=400]
Anyway.... self moderation..... off topic! :thumbsup:
Whatever it was, Bealman, I can't see it... "Sorry, you are not allowed to view this file"...
Sorry... it's probably something I've not done right. I'm sending from :NGaugersRule: phone whenever I get free WiFi and I'm not very good at it.
Maybe you need to check your 'permissions' as to who can view it, George :hmmm:
A simple message, not to Dapol, but to customers don't buy
their stuff. they'll go bust in a couple of months.
I've had problems with Dapol and Farish locos. I'd like to see both companies fix their problems not go under.
Two UK model vendors I've yet to have a fault with - CJM and Union Mills. Neither even big enough to have time to sit on faceache.
Alan
Quote from: EtchedPixels on June 06, 2014, 08:00:28 PM
I've had problems with Dapol and Farish locos. I'd like to see both companies fix their problems not go under.
this. very much this.
I only ever had to return one loco.. a Farish class 60.
Got it delivered from Hattons with a broken coupler and it looked like a return, definitely not new.
Hattons replaced it, no problems at all.
Cheers
Mark
Quote from: scruff on June 06, 2014, 10:49:12 PM
I only ever had to return one loco.. a Farish class 60.
Got it delivered from Hattons with a broken coupler and it looked like a return, definitely not new.
Hattons replaced it, no problems at all.
Cheers
Mark
This doesn't help matters. If Hattons just re-stock fault loco's how the heck are Farish/Dapol/Whoever going to understand true failure rates.
This has also happened to me using Hattons, very poor IMO.
The rumour mill at the NGS AGM today was churning out theories as to why Dapol didn't show up.
Before anyone asks I'm not going to say what I heard in case (a) I misheard and (b) I don't want to pour more gasoline into an unhappy thread.
Nigel
Just my opinion but I think Dapol spend too long making "showcase" models and not enough time testing motors.
Superb detail is good just so long as the loco will do no more than be placed into a display cabinet but we here seem to want to run them.
Maybe Dapol could spend a little less time with "pipes" and "bits" and a little more time ensuring mechanical efficiency?
Having said that I must admit that I haven't had many problems myself, but the layout is still building and I haven't done much running, except with GF shunters.
Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on June 07, 2014, 06:04:05 PM
Maybe Dapol could spend a little less time with "pipes" and "bits"
With you on that.
And going further I think they, and Farish, should lose the complexity of lighting in locos and units. I know some might like to have that but it increases the cost and number of things that can go wrong and at the end of the day how many modellers run their layouts in complete darkness, not many is my guess.
As far as running performance goes I cannot fault their DMUs.
Nigel
Quote from: Buzzard on June 08, 2014, 07:21:04 AM
Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on June 07, 2014, 06:04:05 PM
Maybe Dapol could spend a little less time with "pipes" and "bits"
With you on that.
And going further I think they, and Farish, should lose the complexity of lighting in locos and units. I know some might like to have that but it increases the cost and number of things that can go wrong and at the end of the day how many modellers run their layouts in complete darkness, not many is my guess.
I don't agree with that at all I'm afraid, there is no way a regression to such basic standards is either necessary or desirable for our hobby. In years gone by British N was very much the "poor relation" in and in many respects it was those kinds of basic standards made it a laughing stock with little credibility as a "serious" modelling scale.
Thanks to the hard work of manufacturers (and indeed some healthy competition) we have models in British N which stand scrutiny with the best. Let's keep it that way.
Regards
Roy
Hello all,
Why shouldn't locos have lights? I don't know about steam era, but for modern/present day operations headlights are very bright and very visible even in daylight. I agree that tail lights should be switch off-and-on-able but that is simple enough. Continental, Japanese and US models have lights and are reliable so I see no reason why we should be any different.
As to quality control - it just comes down to price. The UK market is notoriously price sensitive (how often have we read of people who've spent hours scouring the web just to save a couple of quid?) and better QC adds to the cost in all sorts of ways: in higher spec parts, spending more time and resources testing and then rejecting *almost good enough* components instead of accepting them and investing more at the design stage to ensure there are fewer opportunities for manufacturing errors.
And I certainly don't want Dapol to go bust - a Dapol Colas 66 was the smoothest running loco all weekend on our club layout Horseley Fields at the recent DEMU showcase (although our Farish 60s were superb too) - and irrespective of loco performances, their intermodal spine wagons, megafrets, telescopic hood steel carriers, Mk3s and Mk3 DVTs, Cargowaggons and Class 153 DMUs are a vital part of the Horseley Fields stock roster!
cheers
Ben A.
Quote from: Buzzard on June 08, 2014, 07:21:04 AM
And going further I think they, and Farish, should lose the complexity of lighting in locos and units. I know some might like to have that but it increases the cost and number of things that can go wrong and at the end of the day how many modellers run their layouts in complete darkness, not many is my guess.
I guess we've all got our "care" / "don't care" lists. I'm not that bothered about "pipes and bits", but I'd like to see *more* complexity of lighting - in particular, independent control of front and rear lights, not just a simple toggle for "front white, rear red" or vice versa. I guess that's non-trivial with the 2-function restriction of the 6-pin socket though...
I fully agree that models should run reliably, out of the box, without fettling, in 99%+ of cases as a priority over anyone's wish-list of bell and whistles! In fairness, I've not had any issues yet other than a 3MT bought "refurb" at TINGS, and even that's "a bit jerky from cold" rather than "broken", but there do seem to be plenty of horror stories on here.
Regards,
Tim.
Since I returned to the hobby in the last 12 months I have bought 10 farish DCC ready diesels/dmu and a dapol western along with blue riband coaches and wagons....I may have been lucky but all have been perfectly fine except an older 47 I got cheap on flea bay that needed some care to get running.....the addition of directional lighting and the great detail of new models is something I am prepared to pay a little extra for and would certainly not like to go back in time.
Hi
Next you'll be advocating generic chassis for things like we had twenty years ago. I have no desire to return to those days.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: Ben A on June 08, 2014, 11:27:16 AM
Hello all,
And I certainly don't want Dapol to go bust - a Dapol Colas 66 was the smoothest running loco all weekend on our club layout Horseley Fields at the recent DEMU showcase (although our Farish 60s were superb too) - and irrespective of loco performances, their intermodal spine wagons, megafrets, telescopic hood steel carriers, Mk3s and Mk3 DVTs, Cargowaggons and Class 153 DMUs are a vital part of the Horseley Fields stock roster!
cheers
Ben A.
Hi Ben
I would sincerely hope that few if any of our number would want that.
Dave's departure must have created a massive vacuum in the company, his knowledge and expertise would be very hard to replace, there would I suspect be only a very small pool of potential candidates within the industry who could.
Therefore having found new people to deal with product development, however experienced there must be a learning curve and some knowledge-gaps resulting in things like the maroon Western slipping through without a warning panel and Panniers having incorrect cab variants for example. However there seems little (if any) acknowledgement of these errors, or apologies to customers (especially those who have pre-ordered) for making them. Just silence.
For me the icing on the cake was the "no show" of Dapol at the AGM yesterday with no explanation, especially when with the NGS there is such a large base of loyal interested customers (and potential customers) who would welcome the opportunity to talk to them and see their products. Possibly talk about the above issues yes, but much much more of the positive stuff too I would anticipate.
How does that approach reflect customer care? How commercially savvy is it?
Regards
Roy
Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on June 07, 2014, 06:04:05 PM
Just my opinion but I think Dapol spend too long making "showcase" models and not enough time testing motors... Maybe Dapol could spend a little less time with "pipes" and "bits" and a little more time ensuring mechanical efficiency?
There's an irony here in that British Railways went through the exact same issue with dieselisation! On the one hand locomotives with lower specifications and greater weight (i.e., old technology) that tended to be more reliable, and on the other hand locomotives that provided more speed and power at lighter weights (i.e., using new technology) but needed a lot more time being maintained and often turned out to be less reliable than hoped.
Indeed, maybe it call comes down to the old "quick, cheap and good -- pick two" triangle. BR had chose quick and cheap -- and ended up with a lot of
definitely not good locomotives!
Cheers, NeMo
Quote from: Agrippa on June 06, 2014, 07:43:52 PM
A simple message, not to Dapol, but to customers don't buy
their stuff. they'll go bust in a couple of months.
Hope it does not happen, but with recent no shows to the AGM without no explanation and lack of upkeep on their websites/social media sites pages, surely this is a company on the struggle?
Hope I'm wrong but possible?
I'd like Dapol to reduce the number of manually soldered connections for lights, resistors, etc. which can be prone to failure.
When cannibalising a non-powered 153 for spares I was surprised about the number of wires to/from the head and tail lights.
It's difficult to attend to the chassis for servicing, if the motor used for the 153 ever failed, because the wires are fixed to the chassis and there are no mini plugs allowing the body and its head/tail lights to be disconnected from the chassis, unlike some of their later production, e.g. HST.
There is now an apology on Dapol's website from Dapol and David Baverstock (NGS Chairman).
'male chicken' (changed by forum)-up rather than conspiracy!
All the very best
Les
Doesn't actually say what it was though, does it ?
awwww :(
i had the popcorn ready for all sorts of forum hilarity, suspicions and conspiracy theories.
must try harder next time Dapol :)
Another thread run out of steam!
Diese'l be the end we hope.
AFAIK the message just didn't get to Joel and was not entered into his diary, therefore he didn't show up. It's as simple as that.
Regards
Neal.
Quote from: Calnefoxile on June 11, 2014, 03:41:25 PM
AFAIK the message just didn't get to Joel and was not entered into his diary, therefore he didn't show up. It's as simple as that.
Regards
Neal.
Very Interesting.
As a big player in the N Gauge Market I would have thought that they might have been somewhat better organised and closer to such key events, not needing to be reminded.
Oops! Wasn't going to say anything more...
Roy
Quote from: Roy L S on June 11, 2014, 05:11:34 PM
Quote from: Calnefoxile on June 11, 2014, 03:41:25 PM
AFAIK the message just didn't get to Joel and was not entered into his diary, therefore he didn't show up. It's as simple as that.
Regards
Neal.
Very Interesting.
As a big player in the N Gauge Market I would have thought that they might have been somewhat better organised and closer to such key events, not needing to be reminded.
Oops! Wasn't going to say anything more...
Roy
Thanks, Roy, for finding the right way to tactfully say what I've been wanting to (both here and at RMWeb). I've been so incredulous since I heard the news that I haven't been able to think of descriptive terms other than incompetent twits.
Here in the States back in the 1970s, 80s and even 90s there was a company called Con-Cor which in its day really supported both HO and N. Early in American N it was the market leader and chief innovator. And then in the late 1990s/early 2000s it completely lost the plot and what products it still made really were uncompetive in the changed marketplace. I think it is still in business but I don't think it is long for this world. I hope Dapol is not following the same path.
I think we all hoped for the best after Dave Jones left Dapol and I personally still do - but huge 'male chicken' (changed by forum) ups like missing the AGM are inexcusable. When your customers are openly mocking you (there's a funny faux newspaper report about how Dapol updated its website's news section posted at another forum), you need to fix things pronto. Maybe Dapol should hire Simon Kohler.
Matt
Much of my stock is Dapol, because of my regional preferences, but i did have the opportunity to drool over the N and MN models that Farish showcased at the NGS AGM. If they are anything like as good as the Fairburn, they will get many Southern converts.
I used to find it harder to get responses from Farish than Dapol - its now much the reverse, and I find it disappointing that they cant talk to their customers.
They have not (yet) responded to my email regarding Western Enterprise, and as coordinator of the NGS Helpline that really disappoints me - and it stops me dealing with helpline queries too.
Best
Bob
I used the messaging system on Dapols website with a question about western wheel sets - got a good reply in 24 hours direct from Joel.
Regards
Russ
Quote from: oreamnos on June 11, 2014, 05:59:35 PM
Maybe Dapol should hire Simon Kohler.
Matt
Well he may now I believe working in a consultant capacity so even if that was said "tongue in cheek" it doesn't sound such a bad idea!
That said though, first there would need to be an acceptance that as far as communication is concerned (amongst other things) something needs improving. It would probably be acknowledged even by the most pro-Dapol fans that it does?
Roy