N Gauge Society members should be receiving their Journals about now, and will see on p7 the announcement of a proposed modern image commission.
This is an effort to answer criticism that the NGS's RTR projects have been too biased towards the BR steam/diesel transition era.
The options are:
1) Mk1 Pullman PSP 99347 in West Coast maroon.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/thumb_8848.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8848) (Photo courtesy Mike Wallington)
2) JJA Autoballaster GERS12904 in Carillion maroon/cream
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/thumb_8849.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8849) (Photo courtesy Robert Stevens)
3) Mk2a BSO 977337 in Network Rail yellow
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/thumb_8851.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8851) (Photo courtesy Andy Jupe)
4) Mk2 TSO 5350 in Riviera trains chocolate and cream.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/thumb_8850.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8850) (Photo courtesy Hugh Llewellyn)
Whichever model reaches 350 pre orders will be commissioned; if none reach this number then the project will not proceed. No monies are being sought at this time; just expressions of interest. Details of how to indicate which you would buy are in the journal. The deadline is Feb 28th at which date we will collate all the data and see if any models have reached the threshold.
If this project is a success then it may be that others can be forthcoming, however in the past N Gauge Limited run commissions have proved to be relatively poor sellers compared to OO. Any questions please ask!
cheers
Ben A.
Wow.
I for one would happily purchase a few mk2 coaches as these will compliment my fraganset 31's
Personally I'd have preferred to see more complex (and more difficult to DIY apply liveries) such as Network SouthEast to existing models in the choice, rather than, for example, the all yellow Network Rail Mk2 coach which would be relatively easy for a modeller/enthusiast to achieve themselves. I'd certainly prefer to have a bash at that myself (if I want one) rather than paying what will probably be a premium price for a 'limited edition' version.
But, nonetheless, good luck in the venture.
H.
Quote from: H on December 15, 2013, 03:08:42 PM
Personally I'd have preferred to see more complex (and more difficult to DIY apply liveries) such as Network SouthEast to existing models in the choice.....
I'd have certainly bought 20 or more NSE Mk2's! :) I'm sure others will enjoy the choices though, so let's hope that this is a success. :thumbsup:
Too late for my era, but I wish the NGS great success in bring one or more of these to market.
If you want one please ensure you express your interest :thumbsup:
Quote from: Tank on December 15, 2013, 03:19:18 PM
I'd have certainly bought 20 or more NSE Mk2's!
Yep, could have bunged me down for double figures NSE Mk2s - that would have been 10% of the 350 required . . . .
Sigh.
H.
well , they could'nt deliver the last commision in November , as for the 4 offerings - what about a railtour support coach ?
Then theres the add for new members in the magazings , making it look like you are getting a (free) exclusive commision on joining .
#4 is also pretty much correct for the 'Shakespeare Express' rake (four of them plus a matching brake). Handy for anyone modelling Snow Hill :drool:
The NSE comment is an interesting one - perhaps someone on the forum could collate NSE interest and see if the numbers also add up for that from members (or those willing to join to get them...)
Ben - I assume if someone came to you with 350 indications of members interest for an NSE Mark 2 TSO you'd consider it as a project too ?
Alan
Quote from: mr bachmann on December 15, 2013, 03:36:49 PM
well , they could'nt deliver the last commision in November , as for the 4 offerings - what about a railtour support coach ?
That's probably a little unfair - the failed to arrive in November model was a brand new all new RTR project (subject to all the current Chinese production issues) whereas this project is a simple (hopefully) re-liverying of existing models commission. It's not as though there needs to be CAD, proving, EP and a range of livery samples developed and produced.
H.
Quote from: EtchedPixels on December 15, 2013, 03:47:07 PM
The NSE comment is an interesting one - perhaps someone on the forum could collate NSE interest and see if the numbers also add up for that from members (or those willing to join to get them...)
You think there may be more than just me and Tank? :D
H.
Quote from: EtchedPixels on December 15, 2013, 03:47:07 PM
perhaps someone on the forum could collate NSE interest and see if the numbers also add up for that from members (or those willing to join to get them...)
Alan
Any member is allowed to set up a poll, perhaps that might be the way forward to judge membership interest :thumbsup:
cheers John.
Hello all,
To answer some of the points raised...
This is very much a "testing the water" exercise. We took the decision (after consulting on the forums) to produce these vehicles because, even with the EWS liveried versions, most of our RTR items aren't really right for the present-day modeller.
The vehicles involved were also selected on the basis that they can reasonably run anywhere; whereas the NSE Mk2 - which I agree would make a nice model - is more "region specific."
The "steam support coach" is an excellent idea but most appear to be fairly standard Mk1 BCKs and BSKs in accurate heritage liveries and we felt that as such vehicles are already available (albeit with a different running number) there didn't seem to be much point; at least compared to the vehicles we have selected. There is/are Mk2 support coaches in plain maroon that might be possible in the future (as long as the correct type), while the SLOA BCK in Pullman livery would be as serious contender IMO.
As to prices, I think most people would feel that NGS products are pitched at a fair price and we certainly don't charge "premium" prices. We do not know what the sale price of this model will be yet, as it has not been ordered, but it will be fair and at around the same prices as the standard vehicles from retailers.
Delivery schedules are very hard to manage; to me it's something of a miracle that until now we've been able to deliver every RTR model on time! We actually aren't publicising delivery dates any more as it's almost impossible to control; the Collett has been delayed for various reasons but primarily they are staff changes at Dapol and a determination to ensure the CAD drawings are right before metal is cut.
If this project is supported then I see no reason why the next commission shouldn't be something from the transition era, equally any NGS member (Alan?) could gather support for (say) the Mk2 in NSE livery and if 350 genuine expressions of interest are achieved then I see no reason this model could not be commissioned. The "350" threshold is imposed because that is the level at which the NGS will not to lose money; we are determined not to take any risks with these items.
At the end of the day it's up to NGS members; if modern image (!) enthusiasts want these items enough then the NGS is in a position to make it happen; if not then that's fair enough!
cheers
Ben A.
Quote from: Ben A on December 15, 2013, 04:15:08 PM
The vehicles involved were also selected on the basis that they can reasonably run anywhere; whereas the NSE Mk2 - which I agree would make a nice model - is more "region specific."
The NSE 'region' was very extensive covering much of the passenger traffic in England and the coaches themselves (in NSE livery) managed to get to just about all points of the UK.
Quote from: Ben A on December 15, 2013, 04:15:08 PM
As to prices, I think most people would feel that NGS products are pitched at a fair price and we certainly don't charge "premium" prices. We do not know what the sale price of this model will be yet, as it has not been ordered, but it will be fair and at around the same prices as the standard vehicles from retailers.
The major retailers offer new stock at discounted from list/RR prices - if the price is equivalent to that (around £18 each for a Mk2 coach from MRD and Hattons) then that's fair enough, but anything much above I would consider premium pricing.
H.
Hello H,
I don't know much about the sectorisation era as I wasn't really "into" trains then, but I'd be interested in whether others feel that NSE coaches were seen regularly "across the UK." My own impression was that they were limited to South of England loco hauled trains from Waterloo, but I am happy to be corrected.
As to price, I think anything that is above RRP is premium priced, and I can say for sure that these models will definitely be priced at RRP or below, so non-premium.
cheers
Ben A.
Quote from: H on December 15, 2013, 03:56:24 PM
Quote from: EtchedPixels on December 15, 2013, 03:47:07 PM
The NSE comment is an interesting one - perhaps someone on the forum could collate NSE interest and see if the numbers also add up for that from members (or those willing to join to get them...)
You think there may be more than just me and Tank? :D
H.
No I'm calling your bluff :P
Would be interested in MK2s in Sctorail and regional railways. Is there any scope for an RTC MK2?
Hello all,
In an effort to avoid too much wishlisting...
The selections were made on the basis of offering something to present day modellers.
Once the Feb 28th deadline is reached the NGS will count up the expressions of interest and see if any of the models suggested reached the 350 threshold, in which case the button will be pressed and we will consider another project - and at that point there would be a very strong argument for the second such project to feature sectorisation era ideas - eg SLOA Pullman brake, NSE Mk2, RRMk2 and something red and blue from Derby, for example - and I will start a thread here, on RM Web, and on the NG Yahoo groups to gather suggestions with supporting arguments or data.
If none of the items reach the threshold then at the next Committee meeting, or at the AGM, we would have to have a discussion about whether to try again or not but I think it would be unlikely.
cheers
Ben A.
I would personally choose the Yellow Network Rail Mk2a. This would compliment the future release of the Bachmann DRS compass livery Class 37.
I will vote for this Rail Vehicle.
I have a sneaky suspicion that the NSE Mk2s will probably come out from Farish at some point so i suspect they wouldnt be willing to do a special edition. Also given how well the blue/grey mk2s sold i suspect they may appear in next years catologue. The RR ones might be a goer as the OO gauge mk1s didnt do that well but the MR ltd ed seemed to do ok so possibly there. I do wonder if one suggestion if the Mk2 Aircon FO in NSE colours might be one to add to the list as i doubt farish would do that one.
Of the four announced so far i wouldnt have id say the NR coach as they always seem popular but i have to say i like the idea of the Mk1 pullman but would wonder if any of the other types would also be modelled in the same colours?
Richard
Hello Richard
Thanks for your support.
I think West Coast Railway Company have two or three of the Mk1 Pullmans in Maroon. They may also have some in umber and cream.
They also run Mk1 and Mk2s in maroon with West Coast branding; WCRC logos and numbersets are available from Precision Labels.
cheers
Ben A.
The Mk1 Pullman gets my vote - but I admit to being selfish.
I bought one of the Owners Salons in BR Maroon from the NGS stand at Warley. Very happy indeed with it and thought the price for an exclusive coach, as opposed to just a custom paint job for a retailer was very reasonable.
Comments about premium pricing for a future NGS item are I feel unjust.
Interesting choices,
For me it would be the Chocolate/Cream MK2A, i do like modelling railtour rakes :P
I wouldn't go for the WCRC Pullman purely as i've re-sprayed some myself. The JJA has no interest to me what-so-ever. And the NR Coach would appeal to me but from what i have found out this coach is no longer in service, and because of that i wouldn't want a model of it. In the end whichever gets done should sell well as i feel there will be the market for them....although i have a feeling the Yellow thing will be the one that gets done :P
Quote from: EtchedPixels on December 15, 2013, 03:47:07 PM
#4 is also pretty much correct for the 'Shakespeare Express' rake (four of them plus a matching brake). Handy for anyone modelling Snow Hill :drool:
Don't forget you will need to do slight modifications as Vintage Trains use the slightly earlier MK2 coaches whilst the Farish model is of the MK2A.
Ollie
:NGaugersRule:
It'll do for me 8)
Hello Brian,
The Scotrail saloon is a really nice idea. Checking photographs, it appears to have been B4 bogies by the time it went into that livery so I will email Bachmann and find out whether they could provide the Saloon in this livery but on B4 bogies, which they've just tooled for the Mk2 coaches.
Another point re the new commission, I just wanted to make clear that only one model will be produced initially, and it will be the one with the most votes come Feb 28th.
The NGS Shop will be collating the data and letting me know every few weeks. I will endeavour to advise the forum as we go. NGS members can write with their preference to the shop address in the journal, or just email the shop.
Cheers
Ben A.
Hi Ben,
Another vote here for the NR Mk2...
And I echo Arrachogaidh's views on the ScotRail saloon....but you knew that anyway!!!
Regards,
Stu from EGDL.
Scotrail Inspection saloon- yes please :thumbsup:
I for one have just emailed in my choices, either of the coaches, would have all 3 should they get produced. Not interesting in the wagon though I am concerned that should a couple of individulas choose to suggest acquiring rakes of them it would affect the likelyhood of the others getting done.
best wishes
Simon
i'm sure it will be a very nice model - but all too modern for me.
just a thought, but some coaches in the other rtc livery would be good, the one with white lower body sides I think it was????
tim
Quote from: Ben A on December 17, 2013, 05:35:49 PM
The Scotrail saloon is a really nice idea. Checking photographs, it appears to have been B4 bogies by the time it went into that livery so I will email Bachmann and find out whether they could provide the Saloon in this livery but on B4 bogies, which they've just tooled for the Mk2 coaches.
I'd have thought that a Scotrail liveried coach would have the same "region specific" limitations that were suggested for rejecting the NSE livery.
H.
Just thought I'd have a go!! :D
A model that seems missing for me and a potential for a big demand is the Cargowaggon - the four-wheeled type that seems to run in pairs (rather than the Dapol bogie version). You would only need to sell about 10 trains worth to get the 350!
Just saying......!
Cheers Jon ;)
Got the drawings here for the paired four wheelers
Quote from: Arrachogaidh on December 17, 2013, 07:27:26 PM
The ScotRail livery for the Engineer's Saloon has been discussed previously as a distinct possibility. Also, I believe that the ScotRail area of operations is distinctly larger than NSE
Wasn't it also dismissed as having been modified (beyond just the bogies)?
Given how much of the UK NSE covered in terms of geographical spread (SE England all the way to Worcester and down in SW England) plus much more track I doubt very much that the second point is correct!
I believe NSE is slightly more widespread than Scotrail, certainly ive seen photos of NSE coaches in scotland but its very rare to see scotrail ones south of the border. I do believe however unless you pick the Mk2 Aircon FOs (put me down for one if you do them) then bachmann will probably be coy about doing them for the society when it can make more money selling them as standard editions. What about some of the NSE converter wagons which i think were BSKs?
Would a twin coach pack for the scotrail mk2s be out of the question. Maybe one pack of 2x TSOs and one back of a FO and a BSO.
One vote id like to put in for the future is the Trans Pennine livery mk2s as i cant see the mainstream manfucturers doing these, but i dont know how much interest there actually is.
And just an idea for a much longer term if it works out, is a DBSO in NR yellow.
Didnt rail express do a feature of the liveries that could be done on the NGS saloon, i seem to re call an i/c and a scotrail one were mentioned.
Richard
Quote from: bluedepot on December 17, 2013, 06:53:07 PM
just a thought, but some coaches in the other rtc livery would be good, the one with white lower body sides I think it was????
That would be the one with similar proportions to InterCity livery but with red round the windows, cream/light grey lower bodyside and bands of black and white in between.
http://www.departmentals.com/photo/975984a (http://www.departmentals.com/photo/975984a) (as noted in the comments the vertical yellowish bits aren't part of the livery but are for gauging purposes).
This was used from about 1988, gradually replacing the red and blue which Modelzone produced some limited editions in, and continued until the late 90s when surviving RTC stock mostly went into the liveries of its post-privatisation owners. As such it doesn't meet Ben's requirement of being contemporary, unless you count some of the stuff that may still be lurking at Ruddington.
Ill be putting my name down for the Mk1wcr and the mk2 choc cream coach. Both would be useful in railtour rakes.
personally I think its great that the NGS is considering more up to date items. The topic of getting more youngsters into the hobby is one that comes up time and again. modern image projects can only be a positive thing in that respect
Quote from: PostModN66 on December 17, 2013, 08:02:43 PM
Just thought I'd have a go!! :D
A model that seems missing for me and a potential for a big demand is the Cargowaggon - the four-wheeled type that seems to run in pairs (rather than the Dapol bogie version). You would only need to sell about 10 trains worth to get the 350!
Just saying......!
Cheers Jon ;)
I'd like some of those too...
Cheers, Timmo
Quote from: B757-236GT on December 17, 2013, 09:36:24 PM
I do believe however unless you pick the Mk2 Aircon FOs (put me down for one if you do them) then bachmann will probably be coy about doing them for the society when it can make more money selling them as standard editions.
Possibly not. They were quite happy to do an exclusive on the class 450 Desiros in 00, despite requiring almost no changes from the 350 they already offer. I cannot for the life of me understand why they did not do this livery themselves. While restricted to the routes out of Waterloo, a small still seems like low hanging fruit to me.
Quote from: red_death on December 17, 2013, 09:16:23 PM
Quote from: Arrachogaidh on December 17, 2013, 07:27:26 PM
The ScotRail livery for the Engineer's Saloon has been discussed previously as a distinct possibility. Also, I believe that the ScotRail area of operations is distinctly larger than NSE
...
Given how much of the UK NSE covered in terms of geographical spread (SE England all the way to Worcester and down in SW England) plus much more track I doubt very much that the second point is correct!
The NSE area was very large and large numbers of trains were painted in the NSE livery. However as far as I recall the only regular loco-hauled operations in NSE livery were Waterloo-Exeter (early Mk2s), Paddington outers (Oxford/beyond and possibly Newbury but I think mostly Mk1s), Northampton (mostly Mk1s again) and Kings Lynn (early Mk2s). No doubt they cropped up elsewhere too on an occasional basis or on some of the final loco-hauled workings of the regional operators.
Hi Ben,
I know I'm probably in the minority but if you got enough interest would you consider a US, Continental or Japanese commission?
Alex :wave:
Hello all,
To try to answer to some of the points raised here....
Proposed modern Commission: It is possible that someone who votes for one each of the Pullman, Network Rail BSO or Riviera Trains TSO would be outvoted by someone voting for four of the autoballasters and nothing else.
Having said that, our experience with existing RTR projects is that coaches tend to attract more interest than wagons, so it may be that there'll be quite a few people voting just for the coaches and not the wagon.
I will try to keep the forum up to date with voting trends as I get them, but at the end of February if the autoballasters end up being the most popular choice then I'm adraid that's democracy in action.
However, if there is a model that comes a very close second (and reaches its 350 threshold) then I think we would consider offering that as another commission sooner rather than later.
Scotrail Inspection Saloon: Conditions here are completely different than they are for the Modern Commission. This is a model that has already proved its popularity, and financial viability, so the possibilities for future slightly more niche liveries are higher. The issue here is more one of accuracy: 45020 in Scotrail livery sat on B4 bogies, while 45029 in InterCity livery had modifications to the centre window. So using different bogies is more likely to be possible (though I have not checked yet) than modifying the body.
Having said that, Scottish modellers of the sectorisation era can legitimately use these Saloons in LMS Maroon with full yellow ends (see photo here at Glasgow Queen St in 1987 - http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=24053 (http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=24053) ) while the NSE region probably used the Southern saloons (eg Caroline) which are still in use.
Cargowaggon twin vans: We have looked at these and they are a very attractive prototype. It was a toss up between these and the Rover Cube for our most recent modern kit; the Rover Cube wagon won out because it was felt that their additional use on Anglo Scottish intermodals and the recent timber carrier conversions added a little more depth and wider operational interest. But of course it was a close thing and there are arguments both ways. Unless someone else produces the vans I feel these could well be a candidate for a future kit, but unlikely to be an RTR project for the NGS.
Other points: The BSO in the earlier RTC livery is a possible commission, especially if this first one proves to be a success and leads us to consider some "sectorisation era" offerings.
I think it's unlikely the NGS would consider US or Japanese types as these markets are already very well supported indeed; we are already (tentatively) supporting the Continental market as our upcoming Cube wagons are operated in France, Italy, Switzerland and Germany as well as the UK, however our model is to 1:148 scale of course.
cheers
Ben A.
Now im being biased, because i have a large rake of wcrc stock i would say the mk1 pullman.
Not interested in the wagon, or notwork fail coach as i work for them and sick of seeing them wverywhere i go!
The choc cream coach would be second choice.
I for one would like to see a new tooled green/cream west highland railway stock.
They would look stunning i think ;)
Hello all,
Apologies to those who've already seen this on RM web but....
I bought Rail Express (which comes with a free 2014 calendar) yesterday and noticed photos of:
86259 Les Ross with WCRC charter rake incorporating maroon Mk1s with proposed Mk1 Pullman (calendar cover)
D1015 Western Champion with charter rake comprising choc/cream TSO with choc/cream mk1 and rake of crimson/cream Mk1s and Mk2s (calendar July)
Engineers train including Carillion auto ballaster. (P49)
So there is no shortage of inspiration!
Cheers
Ben A.
Quote from: portland-docks on December 18, 2013, 12:01:18 PM
I for one would like to see a new tooled green/cream west highland railway stock.
They would look stunning i think ;)
Hi there,
I agree - the West Highland stock would look really nice. However, afaik these coaches ran in a fixed rake with opens and a brake, so to be of any use at least two vehicles would have to be commissioned. Or all four, as Model Rail did.
This was felt to be too much for a "testing the water" project, while the coaches we have selected can be run legitimately on their own with existing Mk1s in plain maroon, crimson and cream or chocolate and cream. And possibly green too...
Cheers
Ben A.
Quote from: Ben A on December 19, 2013, 09:02:25 AM
Hello all,
Apologies to those who've already seen this on RM web but....
I bought Rail Express (which comes with a free 2014 calendar) yesterday and noticed photos of:
86259 Les Ross with WCRC charter rake incorporating maroon Mk1s with proposed Mk1 Pullman (calendar cover)
D1015 Western Champion with charter rake comprising choc/cream TSO with choc/cream mk1 and rake of crimson/cream Mk1s and Mk2s (calendar July)
Engineers train including Carillion auto ballaster. (P49)
So there is no shortage of inspiration!
Cheers
Ben A.
That issue of REx has been a real boon in terms of showing these choices in an attractive light, hasn't it? ;) Good work on spotting the autoballaster, too: even with the benefit of your reference i had to squint to make it out.
Anyway, after reading the discussion here and on RMWeb I've decided to put my name down for one of the Network Rail coaches, not least because it fits with some other things that I was thinking of building.
Jim
Hello all,
Apologies to those who've seen this elsewhere, or aren't in the NGS...
Bad news.
We are within six weeks of the deadline ands none of the offered models is even remotely near the 350 threshold. The nearest is the Carillion autoballaster with less than 20 expressions of interest.
The aim of the project is both to produce interesting new products and to answer criticism that the NGS isn't doing enough for modern image enthusiasts. We have focussed previously on BR Steam/Diesel transition as this is where sales are consistently strongest.
To recap, the possibles we are considering are:
Mk1 Pullman in WCRC maroon
JJA autoballaster in Carillion cream/maroon
Mk2 BSO in Network Rail yellow
Mk2 TSO in Riviera Trains chocolate and cream.
These vehicles can be accurately run with models already available, and none are limited geographically. In an earlier post I pointed out that in last month's Rail Express there were inspirational photos of three of the four running with other vehicles that are currently available RTR include maroon or choc/cream Mk1s, the Dapol Western and standard Railtrack autoballaster.
It may be that members are holding back on the assumption that others will order; it may be that our previous decisions have been correct and the modern contingent are either small in number or unwilling to support such schemes. The key message here is please don't assume that others are ordering because, clearly, they aren't and if this project fails at the first hurdle I think such schemes are unlikely to be revisited.
The deadline is the end of February, so if you DO want one, or any, of these models or even then please just email the NGS shop before then.
I appreciate that the models selected may not be *exactly* what you want, but they were carefully selected to be non-geographically specific so if you're modelling the present day any of them could, in theory, be justified. And if we wish to see future such commissions then please consider supporting this one.
cheers
Ben A.
Sory to hear that Ben A. What a disappointment.
I can only speak for myself and say that the choices just weren't what I'm looking for.
I'm really disappointed by this news. I put my expressions in for 4 autoballasters and te NR coach too. I'd buy these quite happily.
Shame... Cheers, Timmo
One NR registered and fingers crossed that this happens. It would be a real shame for any future initiatives of present day stock if this fails to get started.
I've mentioned elsewhere, although not my main interest I'm happy to support this hoping that others may do the same with an eye to the long term development of other such models of today's stock.
And having something yellow might cheer up all that blue.
Paul
Quote from: pape_timmo on January 20, 2014, 12:11:24 AM
I'm really disappointed by this news. I put my expressions in for 4 autoballasters
Me too as I put my name down for 3 because I thought that it would have more of a chance of getting to the 350 total than the coaches. Oh well right in one respect but so wrong in another.
The NGS must find this whole matter rather odd as some modellers say they don't want kits, which the NGS does in spades, but now they don't want rtr as well. However it's better to ask up front than be left with a dent in the bank account because a model didn't sell.
Nigel
Hi Nigel,
The auto ballasters are in the lead but it's a fairly moot point given the tiny numbers involved!
I have put this note out just to ensure no one can say after the deadline that they were planning to order a dozen but just didn't get round to it. The time to act is now.
I appreciate those modelling the sectorization era might not want any of these models, but then I wouldn't classify that as present day and plenty of the EWS and even BR blue models we've already done are suitable for that era.
But I struggle to see why anyone depicting the present day wouldn't want at least one of these. The Carillion auto ballaster fits in well with Railtrack ones for a little bit of engineers' variety; the network rail coach makes a good "short train" with Farish NR 37, 31, upcoming 57 and generator BG while charter rakes have even run over freight only lines. And I think the chocolate and cream mk2 has been in that livery for years.
I honestly don't think a different selection would have made a significant difference; I can only think that the "modern" fraternity, while vocal, is smaller than we might like.
But as you say, at least we tried and it's cost us nothing except time.
Cheers
Ben A.
Not sure if this counts as being 'Off Topic' but does anyone have any information as to when the GWR Collet BGs will be available. The last I saw was in October when the revised CAD drawings were received but since then, silence.
Hello Trevor,
Sill waiting on final CAD drawings for approval. The change in personnel at Dapol has not helped the schedule, but also I've been reluctant to sign off on the drawings until I'm happy and we're not quite there yet.
Cheers
Ben A.
Hi Ben,
Not a current NGS Member, so no vote for me I'm afraid.
However, I cannot see past either the NR coach or the Carillion Autoballaster as the current models offered by Bachmann are relatively scarce.
It would be a shame to see the project wither, but I suspect that the Autoballasters may offer the least risk if the NGS were to take a 'leap of faith'.
Either way, I don't envy your decision!!!
Regards,
Stu from EGDL.
Quote from: Ben A on January 19, 2014, 11:32:26 PM
Bad news.
We are within six weeks of the deadline ands none of the offered models is even remotely near the 350 threshold. The nearest is the Carillion autoballaster with less than 20 expressions of interest.
Hi Ben,
That is sad - I put down for 5 autoballasters, 1 NR yellow and 1 maroon coach. Given the speed at which Dapol's batches of contemporary stock seem to sell out, I would have expected a higher take up.
regards,
Dave
Dave - I am surprised at just how low the take up has been!
Stu - if we don't reach the predetermined threshold of 350 expressions of interest then we won't be proceeding. We know the transition era modellers support projects - the question was, will modern image modellers do the same given the criticism of NGS for focussing too much on the 50s/60s era? Evidence so far seems they won't! But they can't say they weren't asked. Either way, we won't be taking any chances with our members' money!
Cheers
Ben A.
Ben, I've just been on the NGS website perhaps I'm being dumb but where are the links to these proposed projects, also it would be nice to see some sort of pictures of the proposed models as not every one (including me) knows what they all are and look like.
Hi Ben,
Yes, I can understand the stance of not 'risking' the Member's money.....especially when the target audience has been quiet, and there may be some opposition from the other period modellers.
There are a lot of modellers around (I personally know 3) MI modellers who do not frequent this group and may have missed the journal article...or filed it away for future reference etc.....but as you say, no feedback =no model...shame!!
Good Luck
Stu from EGDL.
Hi Stu
I am pretty sure the journal article stated clearly that the deadline for this project was the end of February. I think there may be an element of "I won't bother because others will, I'll just order one later" but unfortunately these figures suggest that without everyone putting up, we won't reach the threshold.
I agree that not everyone is on the web, but I have posted this here, on RM Web and on the N Gauge Yahoo groups.
The images of the prototypes are, as has been said, on the first page of this thread. There is plenty of information there but if you have specific questions to help you decide please ask and I will try to help.
At this stage all we need is an indication of interest, so just an email with your membership number and what you want to the NGS shop is enough, no money is required now hence no official pre-order form.
cheers
Ben A.
Quote from: Only Me on January 20, 2014, 09:07:52 AM
Quote from: whiteswan on January 20, 2014, 08:59:05 AM
Ben, I've just been on the NGS website perhaps I'm being dumb but where are the links to these proposed projects, also it would be nice to see some sort of pictures of the proposed models as not every one (including me) knows what they all are and look like.
They are on the first page of this thread :)
Thanks Paul, oh dear, not a good day, better go back to mod school :dunce: :-[
Hi Ben,
As always, thanks for your efforts on this topic and I'm sorry you are encountering what must be very frustrating lack of response.
For what it's worth, my own lack of enthusiasm for the selected models is because
- I'm not really particularly interested in coaching stock per se.
- Network rail is over-represented on models (relatively scarce on the real railway) so I have decided not to go down that route. (And my modelling colleague, Neal, already has some NR equipment)
- Autoballasters are already available elsewhere in a more widespread livery. If I were to buy a rake of them I would probably go for 10 of the Railtrack variant. I have never seen the Carillion ones in real life
It occurs to me that some of the choices above are models that people would only buy in small numbers anyway. I tend to save up and buy freight wagons by the train load, which means (to fit my traverser) ten bogie wagons or twenty short wheelbase four-wheel wagons at a time. You would need relatively few of such orders to make up the numbers.
Hence my suggestion of the Cargowaggon pairs above. You could put me down for six pairs of them! But it is difficult to think of other wagons that haven't already been done; except:
Cargowaggon pairs
Modern TEA
White Lady bogie cement waggons
Car transporters (STVA two level or flats)
Cheers
Jon :)
Hi Jon,
Your ideas are models I'd like too, but would be new tooling and for cost reasons this project was only ever about a relivery.
I appreciate that you may not have seen the Carillion auto ballasters but I mentioned a photo in Rail Express last month. I've never seen 60099 in Tata steel livery but I've just done a model of it!
Cheers
Ben.
Quote from: Ben A on January 20, 2014, 11:18:05 AM
I appreciate that you may not have seen the Carillion auto ballasters but I mentioned a photo in Rail Express last month. I've never seen 60099 in Tata steel livery but I've just done a model of it!
Aahh - you've got me on the ropes. Put me down for three! :)
(taking it that it would be just the non-gen version - I guess you need me to say "300" to make it a goer though!)
Cheers Jon :)
I would have 5 of the VT Choc/cream TSO's if there was a plan to do the BSO as that would enable a complete rake with the BF Umber Metcamm pullmans.
Alas I am not a memeber of the NGS either...
Steve
Quote from: Ben A on January 19, 2014, 11:32:26 PM
We are within six weeks of the deadline ands none of the offered models is even remotely near the 350 threshold. The nearest is the Carillion autoballaster with less than 20 expressions of interest.
That's a shame. Any attempt to increase the variety of rolling stock for N Gauge is a good thing. Unfortunately, this offering isn't for me as I'm primarily modelling 1930.
This is all very disappointing. I put my name down for the NR coach a while ago and the idea of it has been growing on me, so I'll be sorry if it doesn't happen. As a matter of interest, how well do unashamedly modern wagons in kit form (the PNAs, say, or the post-1998 version of the Salmon) sell compared with transition-era kits?
Jim
For those on the ngauge-modern Yahoo group, I apologise for cross posting this.....
I think one thing has been overlooked here and that's something that I'm currently researching with Adam Warr and that is The Royal Train. I know this may step on Adams business toes a bit here, but there is the rest of the rake. Also all of the coaches in the rake from 1977 onwards are available from both Dapol and Farish.
Surely there are enough coaches in that rake to allow something to be made that would be suitable for many NGS members. The longevity of most of the coaches in The Royal Train would surely make it an ideal candidate if the NGS criteria was applied.
The Royal train was upgraded in 1977, when the Queens and Duke of Edinburgh's Pre-Nationalisation coaches were upgraded to modern MK3's and the MK1's and MK2's were replaced in the mid 80's by newer MK2's and MK3's and most of them are still running today.
Agreed the coaches are pretty much one-offs, but no more one-offs than the Inspection Saloon. So in reality you could take your pick out of any of the coaches in the Royal Train, and if a new build commission was allowed, then one of the pre-nationalisation coaches would again fulfil the NGS criteria.
Just my 2'penneth worth, oh and sorry Ben none of them appeal to me as all far too modern for someone like me stuck between 1975 & 1985, although I have bought an Inspection Saloon and 2 snowploughs and ordered 2 of the latest RTR offering
Regards
Neal.
I've literally just finished my Royal Train, but I must say, if someone produced it rtr, I'd definitely buy it.
But the window arrangement is the problem, hence it won't happen from Dapol. Could be done by Farish on the Mk3 shells tho, as their windows are only printed.
Cheers, Timmo
Hello all,
Steve: we can only do one model at a time. If we do the choc cream TSO then there'd be a strong case for the BSO. However, even with just the TSOs and a mk1 choc/cream brake the train would be more authentic than not, surely?
I understand a TSO with a BSO would be ideal, but if that's not possible surely having a TSO is a good start, better than nothing?
Neil, Tim. The Royal train is interesting but I thought nearly all the vehicles have been modified? I'm reluctant to use Farish mk3s as they are old generation tooling; are any of the other vehicles suitable? Do you think people would be happy with a single vehicle using old tooling? I can see the "useless without a full rake" posts now!!
Cheers
Ben A.
Hi Ben,
Yes, I think all the vehicles are modified, except possibly the Mk 2 brake vehicle 2920, which may be very similar to the DRS escort coach that Farish have just done. The other Mk 2, 2921 has vent grilles where the generator is fitted, and just about all the Mk3s have modified window arrangements.
Plus the Queens saloon, and Prince Charles saloon have double doors at one end so they can alight gracefully.
So I understand this wouldn't be an easy repaint, except for Farish, as their window arrangements are printed on the Mk3, not moulded, but yes it is old tooling, and not up to modern standards.
Saying that though, the Farish printing has come a long way, and the later Mk3s do look better than earlier ones.
Cheers, Timmo
Hi Tim,
The Mk3 saloons appear to have modified profiles where the wider doors have been fitted so I'm not sure these could be printed on easily. However if we were to consider another run of vehicles this could be debated before the final list is settled on. 2920 might be a better candidate. Depending when the conversions were done, might these vehicles also suit sectorization era modellers?
Cheers
Ben A.
Ben,
According to info I've found so far, 2920 was converted in 1986. So perfect for sectorization era modellers right upto ultra modern modellers.
Also don't forget Bachmann have just done the MK1Sleeper 2908 in Royal Train livery and I think there is another Sleeper in the modern rake that is a MK3, which Farish have released in Blue/Grey.
Ooohhh now there's a thought, what about a MK3 sleeper in a modern livery like FGW or the Scottish Sleeper?? People would need 3 or 4 of them in a rake.
Regards
Neal.
Hi Neal,
Yes....a First Group liveried sleeper could be decalled to either FGW or ScotRail with little effort if the base livery was done....
Royal train coaches, I'm not so keen on....you would have to be a member of the NGS to get one and a member of the Bachmann Club to get another....just need Dapol to do a 'Royal' Mk3 as a Club Special and the Club memberships are all sewn up...
Stu from EGDL.
Hi Ben,
Only 2 Royal Mk3s have modified doors at one end, 2904, the Queens saloon, and 2922, the Prince of Wales saloon. All the others are standard Mk3 doors.
I do understand though that this would be a niche market.
Neal,
The Mk3 sleeper in the rake does have a modified window arrangement, so tweeking of the prints will be required. It seems none of the coaches, except possibly 2920 are standard window arrangements.
Stu,
I would love a train of Mk3 sleepers in both Scotrail and FGW liveries, with accompanying day coaches too, I know Farish do runs of the Scotrail one, but not FGW neon lines livery.
Cheers, Timmo
Quote from: Ben A on January 22, 2014, 01:44:03 AM
Steve: we can only do one model at a time. If we do the choc cream TSO then there'd be a strong case for the BSO. However, even with just the TSOs and a mk1 choc/cream brake the train would be more authentic than not, surely?
I understand a TSO with a BSO would be ideal, but if that's not possible surely having a TSO is a good start, better than nothing?
Agreed... I would certainly comprimise on the brake, but not having membership rules me out even if I was to join now. I may join one day but I have a limited modelling budget and I spend what I have on tangible things!
Steve
Hi there,
I am not a member of NGS, but reading this struck me with something. I would not be interested in any of the offerings anyway, however, something I have noticed in the offing is that there is something which would quickly reach the numbers you are looking for would actually be simple, MkII TSO's are quite scarce anyway, whether in blue grey or inter city, if you see MkII's for sale on fleebay or just in shops, BSO's and buffets are always available bu TSO's are few and far between. Each rake always has up to 5 or 6 within but only one BSO and only cross country rakes would have a buffet!
As for the NSE argument, I was spotting in the 80's and remember vividly NSE MkII's in Manchester, both Piccadilly and Victoria, in Picc they would have been on either the Cardiff hauled by 33's & 50's and on charters too. In Victoria they would probably have been on Harwich PQ hauled by 47's.
If NSE livery was modelled, it's very easy to get Fox transfers Blue stripe to replace the Red and there you have a Provincial livery. Likewise with the Inter City livery, replace the Red stripe and you have ScotRail.
Steven
Quote from: stevepurves on January 22, 2014, 09:03:47 AM
Quote from: Ben A on January 22, 2014, 01:44:03 AM
Steve: we can only do one model at a time. If we do the choc cream TSO then there'd be a strong case for the BSO. However, even with just the TSOs and a mk1 choc/cream brake the train would be more authentic than not, surely?
I understand a TSO with a BSO would be ideal, but if that's not possible surely having a TSO is a good start, better than nothing?
Agreed... I would certainly comprimise on the brake, but not having membership rules me out even if I was to join now. I may join one day but I have a limited modelling budget and I spend what I have on tangible things!
Steve
Hi Steve,
That's fair enough - but if you were to join now you could vote, and you don't need to pay any money until the selected model is ready.
Cheers
Ben A.
Sorry Ben, mistake on coach numbers, 2903 is the Queens saloon, not 2904 as I put above.
Cheers, Timmo
Hello all,
Further to comments here and elsewhere, there is now a page on the NGS website with pictures and a link to the shop email address to make registering interest in any of these models straightforward. It's here:
http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=modern-image-com (http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=modern-image-com)
And to recap, we are not looking for any deposit at this stage and you can vote for any that you would want along with how many you'd like. If one gets to a threshold of 350 then it will be produced, but at the moment that is looking fairly unlikely!
Also, the closing date for this is the end of February.
cheers
Ben A.
Hi Ben,
Is the 350 threashold the number of members or the number of models? Does the Society want 350 members to order one or more model or a smaller number of members ordering 350 between them.
Happy modelling.
Steven B.
Hi Steven,
The NGS just needs to know it'll sell at least 350 before committing, as that is roughly the break-even figure.
It doesn't matter if it's 35 members saying they want 10 each, or 350 members asking for one.
And of course you can express an interest in any of the vehicles you'd be interested in; you'll only have to to buy the one that actually gets produced.
Cheers
Ben A.
When this thread first went up, I looked at the options and then ignored it as none of the offerings are of any interest to me.
I am a member of the NGS, and have bought many of their kits (a goods yard full of SR-design vans to name just one...) and some of the RTR models, but cannot find any justification to run any of these on my layout.
I can appreciate what Ben and the NGS are trying to do in terms of meeting a very valid criticism of the range of items offered by the society, but it seems the calls for more modern RTR stock is from a very small group, who by themselves cannot raise enough 'votes' to get any of the offered models a kickstart.
I hope that this does not put the society off doing this sort of thing in the future, with another selection, of the modern era - or any other for that matter.
Hello Talisman
The NGS will continue to produce RTR models as long as our members want to buy them. And the members who DO buy them are predominantly those modelling the transition era.
We came up with the idea of a modern commission to offer something to those modelling the present day - for whom most of the existing RTR isn't appropriate - and to test the water to see if other eras had the collective clout to justify such a step.
There is still until the end of next month to get to the target, but at the moment it looks as though none of these products will get there.
We've still got the Collett BG coming out soon - and there are CAD images on the NGS website - and the Thompson steel sided BG is under development too.
cheers
Ben A.
Ben, or anyone, just out of curiosity, do you know how many present day (I call it post-modern) liveried items of rolling stock the big manufacturers would expect to sell?
My perception is as a group that we are pretty well served - quite a few releases in the last few years with many types of container flat plus steel hoods, silver bullets, various types of cement wagons, numerous modern bogie coal and aggregate hoppers, monsterboxes, autoballasters etc etc. Surely the manufacturers wouldn't keep producing them if it was such a minority interest.
Or maybe people who buy there items are less likely to members of the NGS or this forum?
Cheers Jon :)
Hello Jon,
An interesting question. I'm not sure about Dapol nowadays, but a standard Farish production run for a new model is 1008 models. For a relivery they will drop to 504 models.
I've also been told that in OO they won't normally allow a retailer to commission a limited edition until the standard model has been out for at least a year, though I've not checked this.
So across 3 liveries in 2012, there were 3024 class 350 Desiros produced, none of which are sold out according to the Bachmann website. The 3 different 4-CEPs produced 6 month earlier are also all still in stock.
I suspect there is an element of "build it and they will come" but I've noticed that in the last. 12 months there has been a slow-down of modern models coming out of Barwell; the last loco was the very nice Class 70 but that was nearly a year ago.
Cheers
Ben A.
Quote from: Ben A on January 23, 2014, 10:17:15 PM
Hello Talisman
The NGS will continue to produce RTR models as long as our members want to buy them. And the members who DO buy them are predominantly those modelling the transition era.
We came up with the idea of a modern commission to offer something to those modelling the present day - for whom most of the existing RTR isn't appropriate - and to test the water to see if other eras had the collective clout to justify such a step.
There is still until the end of next month to get to the target, but at the moment it looks as though none of these products will get there.
We've still got the Collett BG coming out soon - and there are CAD images on the NGS website - and the Thompson steel sided BG is under development too.
cheers
Ben A.
I'm looking forward to both the Thompson and the Collett BGs, (must get my pre-order in for some Thompsons). The beauty of such BGs is that they lasted so long and carried so many paint schemes whilst appearing all over the country in parcels trains.
I will be voting for the Mk2a BSO in Network Rail. I would like to see a MK2 DBSO in Network Rail at some point, especially as the re-tooled DRS 37's are going to be released.
Cheers, Mark.
Quote from: Ben A on January 24, 2014, 07:35:10 AM
An interesting question. I'm not sure about Dapol nowadays, but a standard Farish production run for a new model is 1008 models. For a relivery they will drop to 504 models.
Golly; such low numbers. I find it hard to see how it can represent profitable business, and I wouldn't be surprised if things slowed down. I generally feel rather well-served by the manufacturers and personally can tolerate the occasional bent pickup or similar minor quality glitch as I just feel we are lucky to get such good models at reasonable prices in a niche market.
504 items would represent only about 50 customers on the assumption that people would run rakes of about ten wagons. Small enough numbers that the manufacturers could know us all personally if they chose to!
I guess we can rejoice that most "postmodern" diesel and electric locos and many DMUs are readily available, but thing look rather bleak with respect to further EMUs if there are so many 350s unsold. Maybe I had better buy some more - I have two already!
Cheers Jon :)
I agree that the situation with the Desiros and 4-CEPs is disappointing. I wonder if that is why we have not seen the 2-EPB go through the Barwell shrink ray.
Bachmann have taken some flack in the past for their assertion that "electrics do not sell" but these figures do indicate that they may have a point.
It would be interesting to know how many 86's Dapol produced in each livery as these have been out for a while and are hard to find in shops, so must be pretty much sold out.
Can I ask Ben, with the production limit set to 350, this is surely for a re-livery of an existing model. I would expect any tooling costs etc to require much larger volumes.
Cheers, Mark.
We are getting dangerously close to commercially sensitive information, having said which it is no secret that Dapol have done runs of as few as 250 of one livery and even 2 x 125 of the same livery but different numbers.
Given the length of time it takes Farish to tool a new loco I'm not sure you can read too much into the Farish 70 being the last modern loco produced a year ago, plus there aren't that many modern locos they could do! The 66s, 67s, and 70s have all been done. Dapol are doing the 68. There are not so many gaps to fill and where the gaps are tend to be MUs.
Cheers, Mike
Hi all
I totally agree, all the most sellable classes are covered.
This is why I think the best proposition would be to produce MkII TSO's in blue/grey, Inter City or NSE as these come up few and far between on eBay. A rake would run with 4 or 5 in, and in some cases more!
BSOs and RMB's are relatively easy to get though!
Steven
Hi Mark,
It's no secret that for a newly tooled model the manufacturers require a far larger order than the 500 they'll accept for a dedicated livery.
When we launched the Queen Mary brake van, for example, we had 500 each in 6 different liveries.
As to new locos, I had hoped we'd have the production Deltics by now, plus 37/4s, Dellner 57s, 31s and CCTs. All these have been shown as tooled samples and I'm surprised at least some of these aren't already available.
Cheers
Ben A.
Quote from: bees on January 24, 2014, 06:49:00 PM
Hi all
I totally agree, all the most sellable classes are covered.
And in many cases still sitting in the shops. Dapol and Bachmann had a silly (but perhaps commercially necessary) battle to be the one who "owned" the various modern image classes, and IMHO they've between them flooded the market _and_ still have multi-year backlogs in Dapol's case (pacer anyone ?)
Alan
Hello Steven,
Just once more, the initial commission is aimed at those modelling the present day. Therefore NSE, IC or B/G are not suitable.
Also, since Farish have already produced the Mk2 in B/G and almost certainly will again I think that would have been a fairly unimaginative choice.
The Mk2s TSOs are lovely models of course, which is why we are offering one in chocolate and cream livery.
cheers
Ben A.
I think Alan's point about flooding the market is incredibly relevant - we used to get what one new model per year from Farish?
To make matters worse batch production often means boom or bust. Nothing you want for months and then lots at once - I know one could save and hold money ready, but when you have varied interests it is often the case that it isn't just models competing for your pounds...
Cheers, Mike
I've put in my preference today but it's only one vehicle i'm afraid. :-[ I'd be interested in a rake of charter vehicles of some sort if I thought I could produce matching vehicles to an acceptable standard.
Ben, if you ever consider doing Mk 2 TSOs in B&G or NSE i'd be in for around 8 or so as I need a couple of rakes for the next big idea. ;)
Hello all,
Mike: Yes, agreed. The US business model of once-only limited runs is something that we are having to get used to, but it seems to be taking time. The NGS's RTR scheme has worked in a similar way and matches to some extent the example of manufacturers like Rapido Trains (who appear to be about to enter the UK market in OO, and possibly in N) by demanding pre-orders up front before tooling starts. The customer is expected to have faith that the product will be good enough.
Cooper: Thanks for registering an interest. I am not sure I follow the point about charter trains though; most of the stock required (basically Mk1s in BR heritage liveries) is already available RTR to Blue Riband standard. You might wish to add a West Coast decal to the right hand end of the maroon Mk1s to run with the all-maroon Pullman but that's about it. Or am I missing something?
cheers
Ben A.
Quote from: Cooper on January 24, 2014, 11:45:26 PM
Ben, if you ever consider doing Mk 2 TSOs in B&G or NSE i'd be in for around 8 or so as I need a couple of rakes for the next big idea. ;)
This is the point I'm trying to make, I would be up for 10 myself (when SWMBO allows ;-) hehe) , thats 18 off 2 people!
Ben, I would be surprised if Farish did another run of MkII's, they concentrate on loco's because there is a bigger profit margin! ....and if they did do another run, they would produce just as many BSO's as TSO's like what they appeared to do last time. If a TSO was to be brought out, supply a transfer sheet and add your own numbers, most members of NGS, I would assume, have the confidence to fit there own transfers. If they don't, It might encourage them to try and build it!
After all Blue/Grey MkII's ran for 20+ years across the full BR network.
Steven
This is the point I'm trying to make, I would be up for 10 myself (when SWMBO allows ;-) hehe) , thats 18 off 2 people!
Ben, I would be surprised if Farish did another run of MkII's, they concentrate on loco's because there is a bigger profit margin! ....and if they did do another run, they would produce just as many BSO's as TSO's like what they appeared to do last time. If a TSO was to be brought out, supply a transfer sheet and add your own numbers, most members of NGS, I would assume, have the confidence to fit there own transfers. If they don't, It might encourage them to try and build it!
After all Blue/Grey MkII's ran for 20+ years across the full BR network.
Steven
[/quote]
Hi Steven that would be a good idea a TSO in B/G with no number and a sheet of transfers, I would have several for my class 50 to drag around. Could then do the exact train that ran through Cornwall.
Hello Steven
Just to recap:
1) This commission is about a present-day prototype. It's pointless wish-listing anything else at the moment.
2) Bachmann will ONLY supply fully finished models. They refuse to supply unlettered or un-numbered models. They have been asked many times.
3) A blue-grey TSO may well sell (though it may be that initial demand has been almost satisfied) but the manufacturer knows that and will almost undoubtedly produce more in good time. The whole point of the NGS commissions is to use the Society's clout and established customer base to drive forward something that they'd be reluctant to take a chance on.
Incidentally, I disagree that Bachmann are only interested in producing locomotives - their rolling stock range is huge and includes three types of bogie coal hopper, cement and stone hoppers, steel carriers, Mk1, Mk2 and Mk3 coaches, etc etc.
cheers
Ben A.
Hello folks
Just a quick update following Sunday's NGS Committee discussions. We have decided the following:
- the initial period of expressing an interest in any of the 4 models will be extended to 31 March 2014.
- after 31 March the two least popular choices will be discarded and NGS members can continue to express interest in the two most popular models until the NGS AGM (7 June). Please remember you can express interest in more than one choice and also more than one model per choice.
After that provided the minimum number of 350 has been reached for one of the models then the NGS will place the order.
We hope that the extra time and slightly amended decision process will help to encourage members to support the project!
If you are interested in any of the models please get in touch with the NGS shop as soon as possible - full details here: http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=modern-image-com (http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=modern-image-com)
Cheers, Mike
(NGS Product Development Officer)
Hopefully not coming off topic to much. To those in the know, has it been considered doing a different liveried locomotive to those already for sale by Bachmann?
A good example is the Class 47. This is an excellent model and has been available for some time now. Being such a popular, multi era loco in real life means and abundance of liveries (from modern image Colas rail right back to two tone BR green)
My minor gripe is that GFarish don't utilise the many different liveries out there which they seem to do for OO Gauge.
Could the NGS Capitalise on this and get some different 'commissioned' liveries done on available models like the class 47?
(Dutch liveried 47 would be cool :ngauge:)
Just a thought. ;)
Hello Owl,
Since we can't even get close to the threshold for an item of rolling stock, can there be any justification for even thinking about a locomotive? The costs are much much higher and again while Class 47s are a long-lived type as soon as you specify a livery you immediately turn off a large number of potential buyers.
TBH I have been very surprised and disappointed at how hard it's been to even generate interest in an item of rolling stock among a group other than the BR steam-diesel enthusiasts but at least we tried!
cheers
Ben A.
Alas, it seems that the majority of N Gauge modellers really do prefer the 1960s steam to diesel transition era. Kudos to you all for trying.
Quote from: Ben A on January 29, 2014, 08:00:28 PM
Hello Owl,
Since we can't even get close to the threshold for an item of rolling stock, can there be any justification for even thinking about a locomotive? The costs are much much higher and again while Class 47s are a long-lived type as soon as you specify a livery you immediately turn off a large number of potential buyers.
TBH I have been very surprised and disappointed at how hard it's been to even generate interest in an item of rolling stock among a group other than the BR steam-diesel enthusiasts but at least we tried!
cheers
Ben A.
Thanks for the reply Ben, and I'm sorry to hear that the rolling stock is not shifting. Don't know why or what to say other than your efforts ( NGS) are very much appreciated by me and a small minority. :thumbsup:
Hi Owl
Thanks for your support! As Mike has pointed out, we've extended the deadline four the four options, then narrow it down to the best-performing too and give it up to the AGM before the final count. Since we pointed out the low level of response about a week ago the number of orders has gone up, but still nowhere near the threshold.
But we'll give it out absolute best shot to make this happen. At the end of the day if the appetite isn't there it isn't there! And at least by doing it this way we haven't wasted members' cash; only a bit of our time!
cheers
Ben A.
Just a quick reminder that the deadline for the 1st stage of expressions of interest is rapidly approaching - 31 March 2014. We are still a long way short of making any of these models a reality so we really do need NGS members to express interest to the NGS Shop if they are interested in any of these options.
At the end of March we will narrow down the choices to 2 options with the final deadline for interest the NGS AGM on 7 June.
Full details here (including how to express your interest to the NGS Shop): http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=modern-image-com (http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=modern-image-com)
Cheers, Mike
(NGS Product Development Officer)
The options are:
1) Mk1 Pullman PSP 99347 in West Coast maroon. This model would be a useful addition to any rake of maroon Mk1 coaches to replicate a modern steam charter rake.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/thumb_8848.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8848) (Photo courtesy Mike Wallington)
2) JJA Autoballaster GERS12904 in Carillion maroon/cream. This livery is often seen mixed with standard Farish or NGS autoballasters.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/thumb_8849.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8849) (Photo courtesy Robert Stevens)
3) Mk2a BSO 977337 in Network Rail yellow. This vehicle is used by Network Rail as a staff coach and has been operating as part of one of the Ultrasonic test trains - UTU4 - with 999606 and 72630.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/thumb_8851.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8851) (Photo courtesy Andy Jupe)
4) Mk2 TSO 5350 in Riviera trains chocolate and cream. This vehicle is used on charters operated by Riviera trains.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/thumb_8850.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8850) (Photo courtesy Hugh Llewellyn)
Phase 1 of the voting has now closed and we have narrowed the choice down to the 2 most popular choices (to date) - please only let the shop know of any interest in these two choices:
2) JJA Autoballaster GERS12904 in Carillion maroon/cream. This livery is often seen mixed with standard Farish or NGS autoballasters.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/thumb_8849.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8849) (Photo courtesy Robert Stevens)
3) Mk2a BSO 977337 in Network Rail yellow. This vehicle is used by Network Rail as a staff coach and has been operating as part of one of the Ultrasonic test trains - UTU4 - with 999606 and 72630.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/thumb_8851.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8851) (Photo courtesy Andy Jupe)
We are still a long way short of making any of these models a reality so we really do need NGS members to express interest to the NGS Shop if they are interested in any of these options.
The final deadline for interest is the NGS AGM on 7 June 2014.
Full details here (including how to express your interest to the NGS Shop): http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=modern-image-com (http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=modern-image-com)
Cheers, Mike
(NGS Product Development Officer)