On the 24th April the new Speeding Fine rates and penalties come into force. The fines are no longer like the old Monopoly game, but serious amounts.
As a Road Safety officer said to a group of speed miscreants a few months ago - I was one of them - with modern technology and the attitude towards speed offences being one of intolerance (rightly so in my view) - "It's not going to be 'if' you get caught if you exceed speed limits, its 'when'."
Saga Magazine sent me an email with details of the new rates today so I thought I'd pass it on. After all, losing your licence for up to 56 days (or longer) and having to pay a fine of up to 150% of your weekly income (or more) 8), is an incentive none can ignore.
Note also the new penalties for mobile phone usage mentioned at the end of the article.
Drive safely and sensibly everyone, and keep your hard earned for more trains, not fines. :thumbsup:
https://www.saga.co.uk/magazine/motoring/cars/using/the-uks-new-speeding-fines-explained?scid=eml-n%7Cpub%7Ccar%7Cna%7CMag_Subscriber_Newsletter%7CControl%7C22_Apr_2017%7CArticle_8%7CButton&utm_source=newsletter-22Apr17&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Print%20Newsletter (https://www.saga.co.uk/magazine/motoring/cars/using/the-uks-new-speeding-fines-explained?scid=eml-n%7Cpub%7Ccar%7Cna%7CMag_Subscriber_Newsletter%7CControl%7C22_Apr_2017%7CArticle_8%7CButton&utm_source=newsletter-22Apr17&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Print%20Newsletter)
Thanks for that Daffy.
I've never understood the outcry about increased fines for speeding, mobile phone use or anything else for that matter.
If people stick to the law and the rules it doesn't make any difference what the fines are does it???
:no: :beers:
Note, for speeding no change in the Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) system
Compare the previously known Level A fine it has been renamed as Band A
These new guidelines only apply where a FPN cannot be issued AND the Crown Office / Fiscal decide to proceed to prosecution
Overall, there is very little change compared to current sentencing and is just an alignment to income ranges based on the offence
Quote from: austinbob on April 22, 2017, 08:13:11 AM
I've never understood the outcry about increased fines for speeding, mobile phone use or anything else for that matter.
If people stick to the law and the rules it doesn't make any difference what the fines are does it???
Amen to that, brother.
Speeding causes seriously accidents. There were 1,780 road deaths in the UK between March 2015 and March 2016, the latest dates for which the numbers have been published. Speed is one of the main factors to these according to the road safety professionals.
People get terribly hot and bothered about axe-wielding child murders and crazy terrorists blowing up who-knows-what. But far, FAR more people will be killed in the UK by people going too fast. We need to make speeding as socially unacceptable as drink-driving has become, or for that matter, as unacceptable as being complicit in any other type of dangerous activity that causes harm to those around us.
Speed limits aren't a target, they're a maximum, and going above them takes you over what's considered to be safe in that particular road environment.
Cheers, NeMo
Sailing dangerously close to political here.
To be honest, it's quite hard to have a serious accident without going fast.
Speeding is just one aspect of the rampant bad driving that occurs across the country all the time.
There should be mandatory driving tests every five years for everyone, which are harder than the first one, to reflect the experience that the driver should have. And a failure should take you back to stage zero - no licence.
Sorry. Bit of a hobbyhorse.
Perhaps my original post here was prompted not just by the email from Saga, but also by my journey to Bradford yesterday along the A18, M180, M18, M62 and M606.
The best I can say about the driving of some is: I survived to write this.
Yes it's a bit political but the views on here confirm mine. I'm a pedestrian and see lots of appalling driving, mainly excessive speed. Why can't local authorities raise lots of revenue by putting up cameras and clobbering these idiots?
Quote from: NeMo on April 22, 2017, 08:30:34 AM
Quote from: austinbob on April 22, 2017, 08:13:11 AM
I've never understood the outcry about increased fines for speeding, mobile phone use or anything else for that matter.
If people stick to the law and the rules it doesn't make any difference what the fines are does it???
Amen to that, brother.
Speeding causes seriously accidents. There were 1,780 road deaths in the UK between March 2015 and March 2016, the latest dates for which the numbers have been published. Speed is one of the main factors to these according to the road safety professionals.
People get terribly hot and bothered about axe-wielding child murders and crazy terrorists blowing up who-knows-what. But far, FAR more people will be killed in the UK by people going too fast. We need to make speeding as socially unacceptable as drink-driving has become, or for that matter, as unacceptable as being complicit in any other type of dangerous activity that causes harm to those around us.
Speed limits aren't a target, they're a maximum, and going above them takes you over what's considered to be safe in that particular road environment.
Cheers, NeMo
Funny, that! Official figure of 'speeding' accidents is give or take 7%, whereas inattention comes out as the biggest cause. (Most likely the holier-than-thous gazing rapturously at their speedometers!)
Just to clarify, I don't agree with excessive speed: it's just :censored: (changed by forum) councillors , some of whom don't even drive, dumbing down realistic speed limits just " 'cos they can".
Limits should be set by professionals, i.e. the traffic police.
Just my observance as a retired tanker driver of 40 years...
Doesn't alter the fact that a speed limit is a 'limit' and should not be exceeded. I'd hate you to be one of the 7% you quote, involved in an accident.
Don't normally need to gaze at your speedo to know you're speeding. Most of the time its damned obvious.
I would imagine people using their mobile phones whilst driving account far more for the 'inattention' accidents.
:beers:
Must admit I had no idea about this! Is there a maximum on fines? The Saga numbers seem a bit misleading, are they all based on a £25k salary? Fairly significant disincentive!
Quote from: njee20 on April 22, 2017, 11:50:53 AM
Must admit I had no idea about this! Is there a maximum on fines? The Saga numbers seem a bit misleading, are they all based on a £25k salary? Fairly significant disincentive!
Hi
It's capped at £1000 for the band b and £2500 for the band c for people earning over £50k.
Cheers
Paul
Very interesting, thank you Paul.
Having driven cars on company business (mainly motorway) and for personal use (a mixture of roads) I can say since I passed my driving test in 1982 I have clocked up over ½ million miles so have, to a certain extent, seen it all.
I can tell by what gear I'm in and the sound of the engine what speed I'm doing so don't need to constantly refer to the speedo.
Many folks drive dangerously below the speed limit which then causes an accident when someone gets impatient and overtakes where they normally wouldn't.
Even though I have hands free phone capability I will not use it - it's still distracting me.
I find councils do raise revenue by planting lots of speed cameras and removing the speed signs so it's easier to be caught.
With the state of the roads at present far too many are busy avoiding potholes instead of paying attention to what's further ahead as trying to make a claim off councils for damage to a vehicle is a nightmare.
When motorway driving I was no angel but, if driving at 70mph, you're a hazard. How I have never been stopped or cited for speeding I have no idea.
Oh, and before I took up driving cars I rode motorbikes and still believe that has made me a more observant driver.
Interesting thread but can we make it more 'comments' and less 'preaching' please
So, from Monday, I expect the number of accidents to rise because people will be paying more attention to their speedometers than what is going on around them. Madness.
To say nothing of using a satnav becoming part of the driving test ::)
The person taking the test won't know whether it's part of their test or not until they get into the car.
Quote from: newportnobby on April 22, 2017, 04:41:46 PM
Having driven cars on company business (mainly motorway) and for personal use (a mixture of roads) I can say since I passed my driving test in 1982 I have clocked up over ½ million miles so have, to a certain extent, seen it all.
With the state of the roads at present far too many are busy avoiding potholes instead of paying attention to what's further ahead as trying to make a claim off councils for damage to a vehicle is a nightmare.
Agree - I am certainly driving slower on country roads (which is not bad thing) and avoiding any very narrow country lane in the wet (because there could be a pot-hole under a puddle).
Quote from: GrahamB on April 22, 2017, 08:37:43 PM
So, from Monday, I expect the number of accidents to rise because people will be paying more attention to their speedometers than what is going on around them. Madness.
Well, you make an interesting point. Given that there will be no allowance for going a couple of MPH faster many people will be transfixed to their speedo. A route I use frequently goes from 50 to 30 in what seems a quite short distance...with of course speed cameras. Whilst I certainly do not condone blatant speeding I do think this is going to cause some problems. Is this maybe another way of raising money, by cleverly capitalising on the road safety ticket?
Quote from: GrahamB on April 22, 2017, 08:37:43 PM
So, from Monday, I expect the number of accidents to rise because people will be paying more attention to their speedometers than what is going on around them. Madness.
:no: :o
Quote from: Pengi on April 22, 2017, 09:00:46 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on April 22, 2017, 04:41:46 PM
Having driven cars on company business (mainly motorway) and for personal use (a mixture of roads) I can say since I passed my driving test in 1982 I have clocked up over ½ million miles so have, to a certain extent, seen it all.
With the state of the roads at present far too many are busy avoiding potholes instead of paying attention to what's further ahead as trying to make a claim off councils for damage to a vehicle is a nightmare.
Agree - I am certainly driving slower on country roads (which is not bad thing) and avoiding any very narrow country lane in the wet (because there could be a pot-hole under a puddle).
There are some up here so deep that I believe have Australia under puddles! See you soon, George!
@Bealman (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=255)
I read somewhere recently that people, totally fed up with potholes, have been planting flowers in them... A true story...
:hmmm: :)
Quote from: austinbob on April 22, 2017, 09:25:33 PM
I read somewhere recently that people, totally fed up with potholes, have been planting flowers in them... A true story...
:hmmm: :)
One town in the US has been celebrating the birthday of one of its potholes :) so it's not just a UK thing. http://mashable.com/2016/04/27/pothole-birthday-party/#1O_Pm.XK7SqQ (http://mashable.com/2016/04/27/pothole-birthday-party/#1O_Pm.XK7SqQ)
Quote from: trkilliman on April 22, 2017, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: GrahamB on April 22, 2017, 08:37:43 PM
So, from Monday, I expect the number of accidents to rise because people will be paying more attention to their speedometers than what is going on around them. Madness.
Well, you make an interesting point. Given that there will be no allowance for going a couple of MPH faster many people will be transfixed to their speedo.
Will there not? They're not going to start magically issuing penalties for 31mph in a 30 on Monday, the equipment isn't accurate enough. If people actually can't tell the difference betweeen 30 and 40 without staring at their speedo they shouldn't be driving!
I predict precisely zero difference on Monday. It's a different fine structure, they're not trebling speed cameras and patrols overnight.
Quote from: njee20 on April 22, 2017, 10:14:21 PM
Quote from: trkilliman on April 22, 2017, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: GrahamB on April 22, 2017, 08:37:43 PM
So, from Monday, I expect the number of accidents to rise because people will be paying more attention to their speedometers than what is going on around them. Madness.
Well, you make an interesting point. Given that there will be no allowance for going a couple of MPH faster many people will be transfixed to their speedo.
Will there not? They're not going to start magically issuing penalties for 31mph in a 30 on Monday, the equipment isn't accurate enough. If people actually can't tell the difference betweeen 30 and 40 without staring at their speedo they shouldn't be driving!
I predict precisely zero difference on Monday. It's a different fine structure, they're not trebling speed cameras and patrols overnight.
Spot on analysis...
:beers:
Given that there are many of us that did not realise that there is a different fine structure, I am inclined to agree with njee20 that there will be little difference.
Are we all done on this discussion then?
Quote from: austinbob on April 22, 2017, 10:40:14 AM
Doesn't alter the fact that a speed limit is a 'limit' and should not be exceeded. I'd hate you to be one of the 7% you quote, involved in an accident.
Don't normally need to gaze at your speedo to know you're speeding. Most of the time its damned obvious.
I would imagine people using their mobile phones whilst driving account far more for the 'inattention' accidents.
:beers:
You're obviously a bairn, too young to remember when there were NO speed limits except where there were street lights less than 200 yards apart?
One could drive at 120mph in a car that would take half a mile to stop, yet in over 3 million miles I've probably seen two or three bad accidents.
And I see lots of drivers gaze avidly at their speedos; or maybe they are txtng?
Quote from: GrahamB on April 22, 2017, 08:37:43 PM
So, from Monday, I expect the number of accidents to rise because people will be paying more attention to their speedometers than what is going on around them. Madness.
Very Doubtful; even in the best cars they aren't that accurate so there must remain a degree of discretion...
In my car (a Vauxhall - considered one of the more accurate) comparing with an independent calibrated electronic system, when the car says 30 I'm actually doing 31, when the car says 40 it's right, when the car says 60 I'm doing 59 and when it says 70 I'm only doing 67.7...
A friends Volvo always reads around 5% more than he's actually doing, while another's Golf is doing nearly 75 when it says 70 on the speedometer
Dunno how you're calibrating those numbers, but it's illegal for any speedo to underread. So you can be doing 70 with an indicated 75, but not the other way around.
I don't think speed is a direct cause of many accidents so the 7% is about right; but it sure does modify the outcome.
From my experience most accidents seem to be due to inattention or distraction, poor ability to judge relative speeds, following too closely and not being able to read the road and traffic conditions. Couple these with the amazingly slow reaction times and weird decision making skills of some gives interesting events.
Many I know who knowingly break the limits usually have a sense of entitlement or an attitude of; they can't restrict my freedom.
Having to listen to the bleating of it is "just revenue raising" wears upon one. Want to "stick it to the man" then don't exceed speed limits and deny them the revenue.
CFJ
Double demerit points on the Anzac Day weekend until wednesday!
Interesting comments. My car (Ford Focus) has something I thought was a bit of a toy at first - not to mention a bit of a joke with a one litre, three cylinder engine, a speed limiter!
It's become more important that the cruise control as, when you have average speed cameras, it allows you to set to the limit but still cope with the occasional dip in speed without playing with the cruise.
Another unintentional "benefit" was that I got stopped for speeding a while back in a thirty. It's a known area for Police Officers drying their hair so I always put the limiter on. I had the good sense to keep the engine running until he explained why he had stopped me and he was very irritated when I took my phone out and took a photo of him, the dash and him again. We then had a very interesting conversation which I wish I had recorded but, needless to say, words of advice were exchanged and I went on my way without a ticket.
Quote from: njee20 on April 23, 2017, 01:57:58 AM
Dunno how you're calibrating those numbers
Quote from: PLD on April 23, 2017, 12:23:23 AM
comparing with an independent calibrated electronic system
Quote from: PLD on April 23, 2017, 12:23:23 AMwhile another's Golf is doing nearly 75 when it says 70 on the speedometer
Quote from: njee20 on April 23, 2017, 01:57:58 AMit's illegal for any speedo to underread. So you can be doing 70 with an indicated 75, but not the other way around.
He reckons it's VW's dodgy software, like the emissions fixing, but I
think it's because he's fitted larger wheels than it originally came with (so more distance is actually covered per revolution of the wheels). Yes I agree it is dodgy and he really should get the speedo re-set...
Quote from: oscar on April 22, 2017, 10:56:11 PM
You're obviously a bairn, too young to remember when there were NO speed limits except where there were street lights less than 200 yards apart?
One could drive at 120mph in a car that would take half a mile to stop, yet in over 3 million miles I've probably seen two or three bad accidents.
And I see lots of drivers gaze avidly at their speedos; or maybe they are txtng?
Its a long time since I've been called a bairn oscar - quite flattering really.
Yes I remember those days when there were virtually no speed limits but there was a lot less traffic around and few cars could attain the excessive speeds they can today.
Just to make the point about less traffic, heres a photo of me travelling in a car on the M1 motorway in 1964, midle of the day in a mates car, shortly after it opened. Virtually no traffic.... Modern day motorway travel on some motorways - you'd be lucky to reach the speed limit anyway!!
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/2403-230417083630.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=51198)
:beers:
Cool pic..... love the old lorries! :thumbsup:
Some people have a funny attitude to being caught speeding. There was an exchange of correspondence in our local newspaper started by a regular visitor to the town who had been caught on camera doing 40mph in a 30mph limit. He admitted that he had not seen the speed camera van. He claimed to have been using the road for 20 years and was unaware that the speed limit was 30 mph. There are only two ways on to the stretch of road and both have had prominent 30mph signs for the whole of that 20 years. But at one entry the single sign there is on the nearside on the inside of a slip road bend set back from the kerb and could be missed by occasional inattention. Maybe not 20 years of inattention. At one time there was also a sign on the outside of the slip road bend, but they stopped replacing it as it was regularly knocked down by people taking the slip road too fast! Doh!
There was one of those flashing speed limit signs that flashed if you exceeded the speed limit in Tonbridge. The problem was that it flashed 40 - the speed limit was 30!
The council also replaced a reminder speed limit sign near Tenterden. It displayed 40, the speed limit had been reduced to 30 some years ago.
We have signs here that flash your speed, especially in school zones. Does make you slow down.
Quote from: PLD on April 23, 2017, 08:22:35 AM
He reckons it's VW's dodgy software, like the emissions fixing, but I think it's because he's fitted larger wheels than it originally came with (so more distance is actually covered per revolution of the wheels). Yes I agree it is dodgy and he really should get the speedo re-set...
He's wrong, if nothing else why on Earth would VW want their speedos to underread? it's illegal in the EU and utterly pointless.
Larger wheels is plausible if he's gone from 15" to 19"!
OT, reading a bit more about this it's not quite as much of a change as it appears. The actual limits aren't changing, and the words "up to" are used, so one presumes a modicum of 'discretion' however opaque that logic may be.
Quote from: njee20 on April 23, 2017, 09:39:16 AM
Larger wheels is plausible if he's gone from 15" to 19"!
For a change of 4" in diameter would give a 26% error. Speedo would indicate 70 but he would be doing 88.
For 75 to be read as 70 (7% increase), he would need to change from 15" to 16" rims assuming rolling tyre profile remains about the same. Could of course keep rims and buy a tyre with a thicker rubber profile, say go from 205/60R15 to a 205/70R15.
Quote from: NinOz on April 23, 2017, 10:44:13 AM
Quote from: njee20 on April 23, 2017, 09:39:16 AM
Larger wheels is plausible if he's gone from 15" to 19"!
For a change of 4" in diameter would give a 26% error. Speedo would indicate 70 but he would be doing 88.
Yes, if he's fitted monster truck suspension at the same time to fit the same section tyres on 19s in! They're 235/35/19 on a Golf, or 195/65/15, which is a circumferential difference of 1.5" from 78.5" to 80". Considering his speedo overreads by more than 10% that still doesn't account for it. Unless he's done something very odd.
Is this thread about speed limits, or tyre sizes? ???
Like so many threads it has wandered slightly, and now relates to potential issues sticking to speed limits as a result of changing tyres. This slight meandering isn't actually a problem to virtually everyone. By all means close it though.
It seems to have run its course so it's :locked: