Questions over current models

[fh47331]

Hi all,
New to the forum, and returning to modelling after around 30 years. Im looking at modelling either WCML late 1980s (my teens!) or current day (North West), but a couple of questions that you chaps may be able to help with. It looks like there arent any current TransPennine trains around (bit like real life!) other than the Mk5 coaches, and Northern units seem thin on the ground, other than a Farish 150?  Am I right in that view? Also, I notice both Farish and Dapol both seem to do Class 66s - is one model any better than the other?

Secondly, if I went down the road of the earlier period, are there any loco-hauled Mk3s or Mk3 DVTs available? From what I can see Dapol only do HST Mk3s? If I was to go down the 1980s route, it looks to be a good time with the Dapol news about the 87!  I think 86s, 87s and 90s are all about at the moment, and in suitable liveries.

Any help would be appreciated.

Richie

[Adam1701D]

Hi Richie

Welcome to the forum. There is not much between the Dapol and Farish 66 at the moment but Dapol have announced an all-new model for release in 2024. Dapol are also planning a large range of loco-hauled Mark 3 coaches and DVTs early next year.

I used to run Electra Rail and have recently passed this on to new owners who are restarting operations. Electra produces vinyl overlays for all sorts of things including Northern units and Transpennine 802s.

Have a look at www.electrarail.co.uk

[fh47331]

Hello Adam,
That is wonderful. I suppose it makes sense given the Class 87 model. Thanks for the update, and the pointer to Electra-Rail - i'll look at that.

@crewearpley40 @Tank Chris, thanks for your PM, much appreciate. I cant respond at the moment as the PM system needs some spam check system letters typing in, which arent showing - and the audio seems to be giving the wrong letters as its not accepting them, and refresh of the image (which doesnt show) would logically change the letters, but the audio read out remains the same!

Regards
Richie

[Steven B]

For modern day WCML there's also the Revolution Trains Pendolino - a new batch of 9 and 11 car units has recently been produced and should be easy to find in the shops that stock Revolution's models.

Farish have a Transpennine liveried class 350 (371-703) on their to-do list.

Voyager (class 220) have been made by Farish and Dapol, with the Super Voyager (class 221) done by Dapol.

Secondly, if I went down the road of the earlier period, are there any loco-hauled Mk3s or Mk3 DVTs available? From what I can see Dapol only do HST Mk3s? If I was to go down the 1980s route, it looks to be a good time with the Dapol news about the 87!  I think 86s, 87s and 90s are all about at the moment, and in suitable liveries.

Dapol do the Mk3 and Mk3 DVT. For the Mk1 BG and other rakes using Mk2 you'll need to look at Farish who are currently producing a new batch of Mk2F which were as much of a staple of WCML trains as the Mk3.

1980s DMUs are better represented than their modern counterparts. For the North West class 101, 108, 142, 150, 156 are/have been available with the 128 and 120 due from Revolution. Classes 121 and 122 were used as route learners in the north west. A new class 158 is due from Farish.



Steven B.

[crewearpley40]

Don't forget you may look at earlier mk2s a, b, c , d on secondary and cross country services plus as Steven points out and Adam' s comments will help. Freight stock wlr can advise on

[fh47331]

Thanks guys.  Im thinking if Dapol are going to do a re-run of the Mk3s and DVTs early next year, as @Adam1701D says then Im more swaying towards the late 1980s period, because of available stock - and I always did like the electrics!  We need Farish to run their OO gauge '85' in N, because I dont think thats been done. Im trying to dig out some old railway magazines from the period - I seem to recall one issue of Rail (perhaps with an orange front cover) did a list of all the WCML coaching stock sets at Willesden at one point.

@Steven B Thanks for that background. I had noticed the TPE 350 on a Hattons advert at some point, but concluded if I was going to do current day, then it needed to be current day.  But it really needs 185s and 397s for the North West, although a rebranded 802 through Electra Rail would be an option.

@crewearpley40 Cheers - yes I need to start saving for some Mk2Fs, but hopefully might be able to pick up some of hte earlier a, b, c, d versions second hand to reduce the cost a bit.  Either way I suspect setting it up initally will be expensive ... still there's no rush, and we can only spend whats available, not allocated and not in the emergency pot - so what can one get for 75p??

Seriously, i'll look to pick bits up as I go, but the initial comments from you guys about current day rolling stock v 1980s, im definately swaying towards the 1980s/1990s era, which also has the option that things are a bit more easily available I suspect, rather than the smaller batches of some of the newer manufacturers?

Richie

[crewearpley40]

  Richie.

No need to tag me but quick ideas. As for class 85, I'd love one. The only hope whilst waiting for a manufacturer


https://www.shapeways.com/product/M8WG2BCEE/british-rail-class-85-rebuilt-bodyshell-n-gauge?optionId=238868211&li=marketplace


Or contact https://leicestermodellers.wixsite.com/website-1/blog

https://leicestermodellers.wixsite.com/website-1/post/n-gauge-class-85-for-sale



As for mk2 d, e, f farish

2As 374950 FK
374710 Tso
374680 BSo


Farish do blue grey and intercity

Google best bet for stockists

https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/versiondetails/5047/graham_farish_n_br_mark_2_a_c


https://www.modelraildatabase.com/grahamfarish/coaches/

Hatton do a useful directory with catalogue numbers


https://www.dapol.co.uk/collections/coaches-carriages

[Newportnobby]

@fh47331
This might help a little, Richie

https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail?id=454

[crewearpley40]

Depends which route/ service you maybe interested in I have notes and memories of many formations on the wcml

[Steven B]

Seriously, i'll look to pick bits up as I go, but the initial comments from you guys about current day rolling stock v 1980s, im definately swaying towards the 1980s/1990s era, which also has the option that things are a bit more easily available I suspect, rather than the smaller batches of some of the newer manufacturers?

The 1980s period is certainly easier to do accurately. There are a lot of missing multiple unit classes for current day operations, e.g Class 185 and 397 from the Transpennine fleet, but also class 195, 331 from Northern Trains.

The current day is probably better served in terms of wagons. 1980s is missing decent frieghtliner wagons (no FFA/FGA sets to current standards), air-braked vans such as the VAA and VDA for example.

Batches from the likes of Revolution and Rapido might be a bit smaller than Farish or Dapol but I'd guess there won't be much in it. Revolution re-run models sooner than Farish - I think there's only been one batch of Farish class 220 Voyagers for example whilst Revolution have just produced their second batch of Pendolinos (a much younger model).


Steven B.

[fh47331]

1980s is missing decent frieghtliner wagons (no FFA/FGA sets to current standards), air-braked vans such as the VAA and VDA for example.
Steven B.

Thanks for that.  I'd been looking at intermodal wagons, but they seem to be the newer spine type and megafret style, which were mid to late 1990s at the earliest I think.  Can anyone advise what types of intermodal wagons were in use around 1989/1990 please?  I recall the initial container wagons were five-wagons gets with outers wagons (with drawgear on one end and bar coupling on the other) either end of three inners (bar couplings only) - am I right with that?

Richie

[crewearpley40]

Nick @njee20

There's arran but can't remember his user name..


All I remember are FFA FGA wagons

See Paul bartlett site plus speedlink, Civil engineering, HAA coal wagons . Shows my age.chris


https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/11165-late-80s-freighliner-wagons/

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightlinercontainer/h27f1e1e6

[njee20]

1980s is missing decent frieghtliner wagons (no FFA/FGA sets to current standards), air-braked vans such as the VAA and VDA for example.
Steven B.

Thanks for that.  I'd been looking at intermodal wagons, but they seem to be the newer spine type and megafret style, which were mid to late 1990s at the earliest I think.  Can anyone advise what types of intermodal wagons were in use around 1989/1990 please?  I recall the initial container wagons were five-wagons gets with outers wagons (with drawgear on one end and bar coupling on the other) either end of three inners (bar couplings only) - am I right with that?

Richie

Those are FFA/FGA (inner/outer) wagons. The best approximation for those is the old Farish container wagons, which are basically FFAs, and have no buffers or anything. C=Rail have a forthcoming FSA/FTA wagon, which were early 90s onward. Revolution have done KFAs historically too, which I think may have just been delivered in the 80s. Really though you want Bachmann to scale down their FFA/FGA.

[Intercity]

Revolution are also producing the 313 which could be seen on the London end of the WCML, they also did the 321 but that may be too modern for you desired era, the 319 has been done by Farish, the 317 hasn't been done.......yet (Revolution are you taking note?)

We are missing the AL1 - AL5 in N gauge, however you can produce an NSE cobbler set as Farish do NSE mk1s, Dapol produced 86401 in NSE, the new 87 will be nice, watch out if buying 90s there is a mix on the market now of the old Poole ones and the recently released ones.

Also missing are the Dinosaur EMUs, 304/5/8 etc

[Steven B]

@fh47331 can you clarify which section of the WCML you're interested in? From your Transpennine comments I'm guessing around the M62 and north.

For freightliner wagons, you really need the FF/AFGA for the 1980s period. Sadly, the closest we have to these is the old Farish model - you'll need find them second hand.

The Revolution Trains KFA were built in Finland between 1987 and '88 so would be suitable. However, apart from MoD and a slightly different wagon used on Binliner Trains they're unlikely to be see in block rakes of the same wagon. The PCV cemflo could be seen around Warrington alongside the Farish Presflow in the early 1980s.

The long awaited C=Rail FSA/FTA were built in the early 1990s to replace the FFA/FGA which by then were around 30 years old.

Suitable RTR wagons for the 1980s include:
Farish:
Done to current standards are:
BAA (steel carrier)
BDA (steel carrier)
CAR (brake van)
FNA (nuclear flask wagon, although Farish haven't produced on in 1980s condition yet)
HAA (power station coal hopper)
OBA (general purpose open)
OCA (general purpose open)
MSV (stone tippler - used on stone trains from quarries in Derbyshire)
POA (stone wagon)
SPA (Steel plate)
TEA (bogie fuel tanker)
TTA (4 wheel fuel/chemical tanker)
YGA (bogie ballast wagon)
Polybulk grain wagon
The JGA stone hopper looks similar to 1980s designs but was introduced in 1990.

There are engineers versions of a number of these wagons.
Under the EFE brand you'll also find the Shark and Mermaid.

Older Poole era models that can be used are the OAA, VAA/VBA, PGA, PCA and HEA.

Dapol have done the Silver Bullet clay tankers, bogie ferry vans and steel hoods. The JHA stone hopper is the right era but generally ran between Somerset and London. The 21t mineral could be seen occasionally in scrap metal traffic. The Dogfish ballast hopper is also suitable.

Revolution Trains (RT) have made the Ferry Twins and IWA ferry van. Due soon are the PFA used by Cawood coal traffic to Liverpool. You'll also find the Revolution Mullet/Parr to pre-order whilst the sturgeon can be found second hand. RT are also making the Cartic-4 car transporter used by Ford on trains to Halewood on Merseyside. You'll also find the PTA iron ore wagon in development. I think these were seen on the top sections of the WCML.

Realtrack models have made the French built PCA cement wagon - the dark grey STS livery one is suitable for the 1980s.

Rapido Trains have the OAA in development.

Sonic made a rather nice VEA - used on MoD and explosives traffic in the 1980s - you'll need to search for second hand models.

Peco's range of wagons are a good starting point, but apart from the HAA and perhaps the TTA they're compromised dimensionally in one form or another.

The N Gauge Society have recently produced the VIX ferry van (common as barrier wagon by the 1980s). Other suitable RTR models include the ZZA Snow plough, carflats and inspection saloon. They also have a wide range of suitable kits including Limpet, YGA Seacow, BDA, Polybulk, Salmon, JGA, PIA/KPA, TTA, YCV Turbot, Warflat/Warwell, VCA, VDA, Boplate.

Chivers Finelines will sell you kits for the OCA and OTA.

Quite a lot to go at (and no doubt I've missed some). There are still some big gaps - HEA, PCA, VAA, VDA to current standards would be high on my list. a FNA in 1980s condition would also be welcome. With those done there's then an almost endless number of hoppers and chemical tankers, alongside the OTA and POA/SSA scrap wagons that have yet to be made as RTR models.


Steven B