I'm looking for some help with a plumbing issue.
Last night the waste seperated from the bottom of the bath and flooded the bathroom, thankfully it's downstairs. I've replaced the waste etc., so the main problem is solved.
The issue I have is the waste pipe that goes outside to the drain.
Background: It's an old property, the waste is buried in the bathroom floor, a steel/iron pipe which exits the stone wall. When it was fitted, by N.Oah and Son, it was laid too shallow and the flow isn't really fast enough to push all the 'bleurgh' through, and I think there is a kink/bend/joint below the basin resulting in it frequently draining slow, or blocking completey.
When chemical cleaning doesn't work, I rod it through this on the outside.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/122/5604-180522204335.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=122859)
It's always been a real sod to get the 'bung' back in, it barely used to hold on the first thread, each time it's removed it gets harder to replace.
The question I have is, does anyone know of a universal bung, repair bung, plastic adaptor etc., that could replace the failing/failed cast iron stopper? Or any other solution to the problem?
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/122/5604-180522204817.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=122860)
:thankyousign:
The Joy's of when we "could build houses" Mike :D
I dont know of a bung that would be suitable, BUT the roofers code is "Adapt and Overcome" :smiley-laughing: so solvent wastepipe is 42mm and takes heat quite well, could you warm up a stub of SW pipe, and while it's hot thread into the bung end, hopefully BSP thread BUT with threading it yourself it doesnt matter.
You can then solvent weld and access cap on the end of the stub and allow you easy access.
Short of that, knock the house down, dig the floors up, install new pipework that's correct, relay the floors, rebuild the house :D
:hmmm:
NOT the worst idea...
I'll call that "Option A".
Thanks Craig.
Screw in a full-bore ball valve and simply open it to rod straight through it? Use a cable tie to stop it being accidentally knocked open?
Quote from: stevewalker on May 18, 2022, 10:48:24 PM
Screw in a full-bore ball valve and simply open it to rod straight through it? Use a cable tie to stop it being accidentally knocked open?
Forgive me, what's a full-bore ball valve?
The internal thread on the 'T' is pretty toasted too.
Quote from: emjaybee on May 18, 2022, 11:24:41 PM
Quote from: stevewalker on May 18, 2022, 10:48:24 PM
Screw in a full-bore ball valve and simply open it to rod straight through it? Use a cable tie to stop it being accidentally knocked open?
Forgive me, what's a full-bore ball valve?
The internal thread on the 'T' is pretty toasted too.
Okay, seen what they are now.
Do you think they will fit an old iron T ?
Something like https://www.valvesonline.co.uk/standard-pattern-male-x-female-brass-ball-valve.html (https://www.valvesonline.co.uk/standard-pattern-male-x-female-brass-ball-valve.html)
I can't tell the dimensions well enough from the photo, but it looks like it might be 1" BSP. If the thread is poor, a liquid pipe sealant will both "glue" it in better and seal it. Once in, you don't have to unscrew anything to rod the pipe out.
Many years ago (Sixties) when I did some plumbing work on a very old house, I found dealing with joining iron pipes to other metals (in my case copper) extremely difficult.
But providing you get a sound join between the brass fitting and the iron pipe, then stevewalker's suggestion is indeed a brilliant idea :idea: .
I just wish such fittings had been available in the Sixties (or if they were, that I had found them - would have suited my case perfectly). Incidentally that house has now been demolished LOL.
Good luck
I don't know how good your DIY skills are, but save yourself the hassle of having to keep cleaning the pipe, and replace the whole lot with plastic 40mm pipes. The hardest part with be core drilling the stone wall - if you want a better flow.
If you can't, then it sounds like you need to tap and die the existing steel pipe so that the thread bites properly. I imagine that they'll be imperial threads, given the age.
Quote from: Tank on May 19, 2022, 10:09:59 AM
I don't know how good your DIY skills are, but save yourself the hassle of having to keep cleaning the pipe, and replace the whole lot with plastic 40mm pipes. The hardest part with be core drilling the stone wall - if you want a better flow.
If you can't, then it sounds like you need to tap and die the existing steel pipe so that the thread bites properly. I imagine that they'll be imperial threads, given the age.
Yes, improving the flow would be the best solution, but also the most destructive.
To replace the pipe would involve removing the wash basin, chopping up the bathroom floor before you even think about getting through the ironstone exterior wall. The position of the exterior drain also means that I don't think I could improve the fall by much.
I did contemplate cleaning/remaking the threads, but finding a tap for it may well be troublesome/expensive.
I'm going to try to establish what thread it 'may' be and see if Ebay throws up any taps.
So far, no-ones come up with any bad ideas, so I've some hope of a better resolution than the current situation.
Just a thought, but given the plug was only holding on the first thread, it's possible the plug and fitting are not the same threading? One of the joys of plumbing in the UK is the multitude of different thread patterns (thread angle, thread count, etc.) that have existed through the years (centuries). At one point in the past, the original plug may have been lost and a replacement "forced" to fit. If the threads on the fitting have been badly damaged you may be out of luck, but trying alternative plugs just might work.
Jon
That, Sir, is quite a possibility. I think trying to fathom out what thread/size the T fitting is the main thing. Being brought up on metrickery my knowledge of imperial pipe threads is limited at its very best. But it may have been what I'm overlooking in this situation.
Quote from: Tank on May 19, 2022, 10:09:59 AM
I don't know how good your DIY skills are, but save yourself the hassle of having to keep cleaning the pipe, and replace the whole lot with plastic 40mm pipes.
Going slightly off topic here. our washbasin drains slowly and requires a weekly application of a plunger. Part of the pipe is the old original cast-iron of 1965. Are you saying if I replace that bit with plastic, the waste will run freely?
Cheers,
Chris
Quote from: emjaybee on May 19, 2022, 01:15:51 PM
That, Sir, is quite a possibility. I think trying to fathom out what thread/size the T fitting is the main thing. Being brought up on metrickery my knowledge of imperial pipe threads is limited at its very best. But it may have been what I'm overlooking in this situation.
Disclaimer: I am but an interested bystander: but just to chuck another variable into the 'is it the right bung' question, could one or the other part be BSPT rather than BSP?
https://www.ondemandsupplies.co.uk/plumbing-blog-on-demand-supplies/what-is-the-difference-between-bsp-and-bspt-thread/ (https://www.ondemandsupplies.co.uk/plumbing-blog-on-demand-supplies/what-is-the-difference-between-bsp-and-bspt-thread/)
If one part is tapered and the other isn't, it might explain why they don't mate very well.
Get calipers or similar on the pipe coming out of the tee, and then use the table here
https://www.thehosemaster.co.uk/bsp-pipe-threads (https://www.thehosemaster.co.uk/bsp-pipe-threads)
The bung you have may be parallel and the tee tapered, or the inverse.
For a BSP thread you should have 11 threads an inch.
If not put all the measurements here and we'll see what we can come up with.
I am assuming unscrewing the tee is a non-starter..........
Alan
Separate to the issue of the bung, but if you extend the pipe downwards into the drain, won't the syphon effect improve the flow? (Assuming the water level in the drain itself is low enough)
Quote from: Papyrus on May 19, 2022, 06:26:01 PM
Quote from: Tank on May 19, 2022, 10:09:59 AM
I don't know how good your DIY skills are, but save yourself the hassle of having to keep cleaning the pipe, and replace the whole lot with plastic 40mm pipes.
Going slightly off topic here. our washbasin drains slowly and requires a weekly application of a plunger. Part of the pipe is the old original cast-iron of 1965. Are you saying if I replace that bit with plastic, the waste will run freely?
Cheers,
Chris
What I meant was to replace the whole lot, and make sure it has a proper gradient to run out of the bathroom. It seems crazy to me to have to clear it so often. Though, if the pipes are buried in a solid floor it's a bigger job.
For yourself Chris, I'd say the same thing. Make sure that the gradient is correct, but also that the trap is clear of dirt/debris. Plunging won't be enough to clear it entirely, so dirt will soon block the small hole that was made. Having worked in the largest school in Croydon, with over 100 sinks, I've had plenty of practice! :sick: ;D
Quote from: Yet_Another on May 19, 2022, 07:11:17 PM
Quote from: emjaybee on May 19, 2022, 01:15:51 PM
That, Sir, is quite a possibility. I think trying to fathom out what thread/size the T fitting is the main thing. Being brought up on metrickery my knowledge of imperial pipe threads is limited at its very best. But it may have been what I'm overlooking in this situation.
Disclaimer: I am but an interested bystander: but just to chuck another variable into the 'is it the right bung' question, could one or the other part be BSPT rather than BSP?
https://www.ondemandsupplies.co.uk/plumbing-blog-on-demand-supplies/what-is-the-difference-between-bsp-and-bspt-thread/ (https://www.ondemandsupplies.co.uk/plumbing-blog-on-demand-supplies/what-is-the-difference-between-bsp-and-bspt-thread/)
If one part is tapered and the other isn't, it might explain why they don't mate very well.
On reflection, I'm pretty sure the 'plug' is tapered, and the 'T' is parallel. I'm also pretty sure on reflection that it quite possibly was not the original bung.
Quote from: zwilnik on May 20, 2022, 12:10:31 AM
Separate to the issue of the bung, but if you extend the pipe downwards into the drain, won't the syphon effect improve the flow? (Assuming the water level in the drain itself is low enough)
I have a feeling that might be against building regs, not that I'm a stickler for them, but it's also not possible in this situation. Interesting prospect mind.
Quote from: acook on May 19, 2022, 07:22:57 PM
Get calipers or similar on the pipe coming out of the tee, and then use the table here
https://www.thehosemaster.co.uk/bsp-pipe-threads (https://www.thehosemaster.co.uk/bsp-pipe-threads)
The bung you have may be parallel and the tee tapered, or the inverse.
For a BSP thread you should have 11 threads an inch.
If not put all the measurements here and we'll see what we can come up with.
I am assuming unscrewing the tee is a non-starter..........
Alan
I shall try to establish what thread size the 'T' is and take it from there.
If I was thinking of trying to remove the 'T' I reckon it'd be a better bet to just rip the whole shebang out try and start over.
Thank you everyone. I stand by my earlier comment that none of these are bad ideas. I suspect there's been some modification/evolution of this pipe entry over the decades.
It's going to take me a while to deal with this as it's all a bit manic at the moment, but when I've got a solution I'll post back on here and let you know how it went.
Thanks again to everyone for saving my bedraggled sanity.
:thankyousign: